Was the ‘virgin’ birth symbolic?

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J

Jeff_56

Banned
#61
Dec 26, 2014
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#61
Reborn said:
He wasn't???
Then why do we get presents on his birthday?

Just a joke.
Now we are going to go into Him being born in early autumn, depending on how we look/debate at/ the scripture that suggests this?:p
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the presents yahweh has for <true> believers are far far different and greater and better than the so-called

holiday observed by society and others.

none of the <true> believers <in the first centuries apparently> celebrated his birthday. (btw).

it was the heresy that started to do so, obviously on the wrong day, and for all the wrong reasons.
 
E

Elin

Banned
#62
Jan 19, 2013
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#62
Zmouth said:
If asked if the ‘virgin’ birth was symbolic or literal, how would you respond?

Since some Christians hold some scriptures are symbolic and not literal, do those who hold it literal think it would be a false teaching to the faith to hold it as being symbolic?
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Symbolic of what. . .our rebirth by the Holy Spirit?
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#63
Dec 26, 2014
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#63
most or all from biblehub and/r biblegateway; rsv or other.

Mark 13:32 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the ... ... "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels
in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. ...

Luke 10:22 "All things have been committed to me by my Father. No ...
... No one truly knows the Son except the Father, and no one truly knows the Father
except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." ...

Bible Search
Matthew 11:27 "All things have been committed to me by my Father. ...
... No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except
the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. ...

1 John 5:1
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.

James 1:17
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

Matthew 21:31
"Which of the two did what his father wanted?" "The first," they answered. Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.

1 Timothy 4:1
[ False Asceticism ] Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
 
Reborn

Reborn

Senior Member
#64
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
216
63
#64
Jeff_56 said:
the presents yahweh has for <true> believers are far far different and greater and better than the so-called

holiday observed by society and others.

none of the <true> believers <in the first centuries apparently> celebrated his birthday. (btw).

it was the heresy that started to do so, obviously on the wrong day, and for all the wrong reasons.
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It was just a joke to help lighten up the mood for what DH was going through in this thread.
I know what Christmas is about.

-I exchange presents.
-Decorate a Christmas tree.
-Play music and make cookies.
-Deck the halls.
-Travel.
-Send Holiday cards.

Otherwise, I try to not get caught up into the madness of it all.......basically, I do not celebrate Christmas.......all that much?:)
 
T

twotwo

Guest
#65
#65
Zmouth said:
If asked if the ‘virgin’ birth was symbolic or literal, how would you respond?

Since some Christians hold some scriptures are symbolic and not literal, do those who hold it literal think it would be a false teaching to the faith to hold it as being symbolic?
Click to expand...

Neither symbolic or literal. Just a cultural way of that epoch to write about great personages.
 
D

Delivery

Guest
#66
#66
Zmouth said:
If asked if the ‘virgin’ birth was symbolic or literal, how would you respond?

Since some Christians hold some scriptures are symbolic and not literal, do those who hold it literal think it would be a false teaching to the faith to hold it as being symbolic?
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Yest, the virgin birth was literal. She really was a virgin when she got pregnant with Jesus. And, yes, it is false teaching to say that it's symbolic.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#67
Nov 23, 2013
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#67
Delivery said:
Yest, the virgin birth was literal. She really was a virgin when she got pregnant with Jesus. And, yes, it is false teaching to say that it's symbolic.
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Was she a virgin after she got pregnant?
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#69
Nov 23, 2013
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#69
Elin said:
The virgin was with child (Mt 1:23).

Jesus was born of a virgin (Isa 7:14).
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All bibles don't say that though.

[h=1]Matthew 1:23English Standard Version (ESV)[/h]23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and they shall call his name Immanuel”
 
E

Elin

Banned
#70
Jan 19, 2013
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#70
KJV1611 said:
Elin said:
The virgin was with child (Mt 1:23).

Jesus was born of a virgin (Isa 7:14).
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All bibles don't say that though.

Matthew 1:23English Standard Version (ESV)

23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and they shall call his name Immanuel”
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What is the difference between "with child" and "conceive"?
 
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KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#71
Nov 23, 2013
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#71
Elin said:
What is the difference between "with child" and "conceive"?
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Many virgins have conceived and given birth to a son.

Matthew 1:23New International Version (NIV)

23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”[a] (which means “God with us”).
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Only one VIRGIN has been with child... a virgin was pregnant.

Matthew 1:23Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
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E

Elin

Banned
#72
Jan 19, 2013
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#72
KJV1611 said:
Many virgins have conceived and given birth to a son.
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None were virgins when they actually conceived.
Virginity is lost immediately prior to conception.

Only one VIRGIN has been with child... a virgin was pregnant.
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And only one virgin has conceived, not losing virginity immediately prior to conception.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#73
Nov 23, 2013
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#73
Elin said:
None were virgins when they actually conceived.
Virginity is lost immediately prior to conception.


And only one virgin has conceived, not losing virginity immediately prior to conception.
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Agreed, and the KJV preserves the doctrine of the virgin birth but the NIV and other newer versions don't.
 
E

Elin

Banned
#74
Jan 19, 2013
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#74
KJV1611 said:
Agreed, and the KJV preserves the doctrine of the virgin birth but the NIV and other newer versions don't.
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The NIV couldn't be any clearer in Isa 7:14, nor could the NAS, and do not differ from the KJV.

In the natural order, virgins can't conceive.

To effect conception, virginity must first be lost.
 
Angela53510

Angela53510

Senior Member
#75
Jan 24, 2011
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#75
In answer to the OP, like others have said, the virgin birth was real. It was a fulfillment of prophecy.

"but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus." Matt 1:25.

knew - ἐγίνωσκεν eginosken imperfect, indicative active, used in the sexual sense. Imperfect indicates the continual or unfulfilled action in the past. The delay in sexual union suits Joseph's original hesitation and preserves the virginity of the birth.

(Trust KJV to make this into a discussion about his translation preference. Sigh!)
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#76
Nov 23, 2013
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#76
Elin said:
The NIV couldn't be any clearer in Isa 7:14, nor could the NAS, and do not differ from the KJV.

In the natural order, virgins can't conceive.

To effect conception, virginity must first be lost.
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No difference huh? Show me the doctrine of the virgin birth in the NIV.

[h=1]Matthew 1:23New International Version (NIV)[/h]23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”[a] (which means “God with us”).

[h=1]Isaiah 7:14New International Version (NIV)[/h]14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[a] a sign: The virgin[b] will conceive and give birth to a son, and[c] will call him Immanuel.[d]
 
E

Elin

Banned
#77
Jan 19, 2013
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#77
KJV1611 said:
No difference huh? Show me the doctrine of the virgin birth in the NIV.

Matthew 1:23New International Version (NIV)

23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”[a] (which means “God with us”).

Isaiah 7:14New International Version (NIV)

14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[a] a sign: The virgin[b] will conceive and give birth to a son, and[c] will call him Immanuel.[d]
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Mt 1:25 - "But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son."

What are you missing?
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#78
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#78
Elin said:
Mt 1:25 - "But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son."

What are you missing?
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What does that have to do with proving a virgin birth? A woman waiting for a child to be born before having sex with her husband does not prove a virgin birth. Show me a verse in the NIV that proves that Mary was a virgin while she was pregnant.... here's an example of proof of a virgin birth.

[h=1]Matthew 1:23Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h]23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
 
D

DesiredHaven

Guest
#79
#79
KJV1611 said:
What does that have to do with proving a virgin birth? A woman waiting for a child to be born before having sex with her husband does not prove a virgin birth. Show me a verse in the NIV that proves that Mary was a virgin while she was pregnant.... here's an example of proof of a virgin birth.

Matthew 1:23Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
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Luke 2:5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.

With child?

Luke 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Whats wrong with the with part?
 
E

Elin

Banned
#80
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
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#80
KJV1611 said:
What does that have to do with proving a virgin birth? A woman waiting for a child to be born before having sex with her husband does not prove a virgin birth. Show me a verse in the NIV that proves that Mary was a virgin while she was pregnant.... here's an example of proof of a virgin birth.

Matthew 1:23Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Click to expand...
Show me a verse in the KJV that states God is sovereign.
 
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