Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[ThomistColin]

Fordman, it does not matter what Luther thought or taught about Mary. What matters is what the Holy Spirit says in the Scriptures.

Romans 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."


Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

1 John 1:8
[SUP]8 [/SUP] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Hebrews 4:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.


Only Jesus Christ was sinless, all others were sinners even Mary. For Mary to say she was sinless shows that Mary did not have the Truth and was a liar. For you and others to say Mary was sinless proves you do not have salvation and have never received the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

How can you understand the Spiritual Truths in the Bible if you do not have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit to show you the Truth?

Fordman, reject what the Catholic Church teaches today, repent and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior before its too late and you will not be allowed to enter into Heaven.

Does the lies from the Catholic Church mean more to you then Eternity in Heaven with God?

And you are not even willing to believe she is the greatest woman ever to have lived? That she is blessed above all women? That she is the Mother of our Lord? That it was at her voice that John leaped in the womb?

Confessing nothing else, are you so blind as to attack us and in so doing insult Mary, your sister and mother in Christ?

You deny that she was sinless, fine by me, but don't be so ugly as to attack your own sister in Christ so that you might offend us.

 

[ThomistColin]

before wwONE, the catholic hierarchy in Lithuania took part in or directly murdered my grandparents on my father's side because they were Jewish and would not bow down to the demonic pope.

*Pointedly being sarcastic here* And during the 1st and 2nd century, you're Jewish ancestors supported the murder and persecution of Christians. Supported and cheered the stonings, crucifixions, massacres, and feeding to the lions. And because of your ancestors, my Lord was crucified. Therefore, all Jews are Christ killers and are the enemies of God *End of sarcasm*

See how ignorant it sounds when you point at an entire group because of a personal or religious grudge.

I'm sorry for what happened to your grandparents, but I didn't kill them, and therefore do not presume that I support their deaths. Also, therefore do not presume that the entirety of Catholicism agrees and supports the death of your grandparents.

Because all you are doing is developing a hatred just as evil and insidious as anti-Semitism. All you are doing is allowing your fingers and your words drip with the venom of Satan, and claiming to be righteous by doing so. You are becoming no better than the men who killed your grandparents. Sorry, that's harsh, but it's true and you don't get a free pass on hatred because someone hated you first.

 

[notuptome]

And you are not even willing to believe she is the greatest woman ever to have lived? That she is blessed above all women? That she is the Mother of our Lord? That it was at her voice that John leaped in the womb?

Confessing nothing else, are you so blind as to attack us and in so doing insult Mary, your sister and mother in Christ?

You deny that she was sinless, fine by me, but don't be so ugly as to attack your own sister in Christ so that you might offend us.

Luke 11:27-28 And it came to pass as He spake these things a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice and said unto Him Blessed is the womb that bare Thee and the paps which Thou has sucked. But He said, Yea rather blessed are they that hear the word of God and keep it.

Mary is my sister in Christ but she is not my mother in Christ. Honor Mary but do not idolize her. Among the other women of the bible she had a special ministry but she was still born of man and born with sin. Mary needed a Savior just like everybody else on the planet.

No hatred of anybody but just simple reason.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[santuzza]

Amen, notuptome! Mary is my sister in Christ, but she is no mother to me.

 

[didymos]

*Pointedly being sarcastic here* And during the 1st and 2nd century, you're Jewish ancestors supported the murder and persecution of Christians. Supported and cheered the stonings, crucifixions, massacres, and feeding to the lions. And because of your ancestors, my Lord was crucified. Therefore, all Jews are Christ killers and are the enemies of God *End of sarcasm*...

C'mon that was like 1900 years ago. Do you actually know the names of your catholic forefathers who were murdered by jews? I guess not, but I'm sure Jeff knows who his grandparents were.

 

[fordman]

Luke 11:27-28 And it came to pass as He spake these things a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice and said unto Him Blessed is the womb that bare Thee and the paps which Thou has sucked. But He said, Yea rather blessed are they that hear the word of God and keep it.

With you posting this passage notuptome, I have to ask....Are you a blessing to your family and neighbors? Yes...No? Well, in this passage, when an admirer wished to compliment Jesus by praising his mother, Jesus did not deny the truth of the blessing she pronounced. Her beatitude (which means "blessedness" or "happiness") recalls Mary's canticle: All generations will call me blessed (Luke 1:48). Jesus adds to her words by pointing to the source of all true blessedness or happiness -- union with God. Mary humbly submitted herself to the miraculous plan of God for the incarnation of his only begotten Son -- The Word of God made flesh in her womb, by declaring: I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be done to me according to your word (Luke 1:38). Mary heard the word spoken to her by the angel and she believed it. On another occasion Jesus pointed out that our true mother and brothers and sisters are those who hear the word of God and do it (Luke 8:21). They are truly blessed because they know their God personally and they find joy in hearing and obeying his word.

I don't know about you or the other non-Catholics that have posted here, but for us Catholics, our goal in life, the very reason we were created in the first place, is for union with God. We were made for God and our hearts are restless until they restr in him. An early martyr once said that "a Christian's only relatives are the saints." Those who follow Jesus Christ and who seek the will of God enter into a new family, a family of "saints" here on earth and in heaven. Jesus changes the order of relationships and shows that true kinship is not just a matter of flesh and blood. Our adoption as sons and daughters of God transforms all our relationships and requires a new order of loyalty to God and his kingdom.

Mary is my sister in Christ but she is not my mother in Christ.

Wow.... you and santuzza really don't get it do ya? That is so sad. Jesus chose Mary for His mother from all eternity as part of God’s plan for our salvation. God could have sent His Son any way He chose. He chose to go through Mary to come to us. If Mary is good enough for God to go through to get closer to us, then she is good enough for us to go through to get closer to Him. When we honor her, we do as Jesus did when He followed the fourth commandment and honored His mother. If God is our Father and Jesus is our Brother, then only Mary could complete the family as our Mother.

Honor Mary but do not idolize her.

Lol!!! For about the up-tenth time, Catholics DO NOT worship or idolize Mary, the Mother of Christ – as though she were a deity. Of all the misconceptions about Catholic belief and practice, this one is the most absurd. Catholics are just as aware as Protestants that Mary was a human creature, and therefore not entitled to the honors which are reserved to God alone. What many non-Catholics mistake for adoration is a very profound love and veneration, nothing more. Mary is not adored, first because God forbids it, and secondly because the Canon Law of the Catholic Church, which is based on Divine Law, forbids it. Canon Law 1255 of the 1918 Codex strictly forbids adoration of anyone other than the Holy Trinity. However, Catholics do feel that Mary is entitled to a great measure of exaltation because, in choosing her as the Mother of Redemption, God Himself exalted her – exalted her more than any other human person before or since. Catholics heap tribute and honor on Mary because they earnestly desire to be "followers of God, as most dear children." (Eph. 5:1). Mary herself prophesied: "For behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name." (Luke 1:48-49). Catholics know that every bit of the glory they give to Mary redounds to the glory of her divine Son, just as Mary magnified God, not herself, when Elizabeth blessed her. (Luke 1:41-55). They know that the closer they draw to her, the closer they draw to Him who was born of her. In the year 434 St. Vincent of Lerins defended Christian devotion to Mary this way: "Therefore, may God forbid that anyone should attempt to defraud Holy Mary of her privilege of divine grace and her special glory. For by a unique favor of our Lord and God she is confessed to be the most true and most blessed Mother of God."

Among the other women of the bible she had a special ministry but she was still born of man and born with sin. Mary needed a Savior just like everybody else on the planet.

Really????? You actually put a limit on what God can do???? WOW!!!

Guess thats where you and I differ. We Catholics believe that every human being after the fall, including Mary ,was subject to being brought into this world with original sin and needs to be saved. However, Mary was saved from all sin, including original sin from the first moment of her conception. The following is an imperfect analogy. Imagine I am parachuting and falling through the air into quicksand. Suddenly, a gust of wind comes along and blows me away from the quicksand. I would say that at the moment of conception all human beings fall into a pit of quicksand called original sin. But in Mary's case God intervened and protected her from this at the moment of her conception by the merits of Jesus. She had no power or merit of her own that prevented her from falling into the quicksand of original sin. It was Divine Mercy which was preparing a place for the Incarnation. God was preparing an Ark of the Covenant to carry the Word of God.

St. Teresa of Ávila said: "I could have fallen like Mary Magdalene, but your forgiveness of me was greater than hers because you prevented me from falling."
This is a very good explanation of the Immaculate Conception. Mary was redeemed by God from the moment of her conception so that she never fell into sin. Catholics believe that Mary was saved by God from sin, but in a preventative way.


Pax Christi


"All generations will call me blessed" (Luke 1:48).

 

[fordman]

No hatred of anybody but just simple reason.

Simple reason? Yes.... reason I just proved that is flawed.


Pax Christi


"All generations will call me blessed" (Luke 1:48).

 

[fordman]

Amen, notuptome! Mary is my sister in Christ, but she is no mother to me.

Luke 1:48.

 

[Jeff_56]

Re: Catholic Heresy (for the record)


(realize heretics don't realize nor admit they are damned) (if they never repent)

 

[Maynard]

Amen, notuptome! Mary is my sister in Christ, but she is no mother to me.

"Meanwhile, standing near the cross of Jesus were his mother,... When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing beside her,.. he said to the disciple, “Here is your mother.”
- John 19

santuzza,
Christ gave us his mother to be our own. Yet you refuse this beautiful gift from God which he gave to us even from his cross?

 

[keeth]

The site I got it from you would probably dismiss for it being Catholic. You will have a hard time finding it on any site other than Catholic, for Protestants/non-Catholics want to stick thier heads in the sand and pretend he (Martin Luther) didn't actually say it. Unfortunately for Protestants and many other non-Catholics sects, history proves otherwise. If you search harder, you will have success. I would however, suggest checking out a book from Ewald M. Plass.... "What Luther Says" (St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1959; one-volume edition; tenth printing, 1994). The numbered excerpts could be very helpful to you.

I bet something else that may be a bit of surprise to ya. Martin Luther had great respect and honor for The Blessed VirginMary. Take note:

In his sermon of August 15, 1522, the last time Martin Luther preached on the Feast of the Assumption, he stated:

There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know. And since the Holy Spirit has told us nothing about it, we can make of it no article of faith . . . It is enough to know that she lives in Christ.

The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart. (Sermon, September 1, 1522).
[She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ . . . She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures. (Sermon, Christmas, 1531).

No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity. (Sermon, Feast of the Visitation, 1537).

One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of Gods grace . . . Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ . . . Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God. (Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521).

Here Luther gives the Blessed Virgin the exalted postion of "Spiritual Mother" for Christians:
"It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of God, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother ..' (Sermon, Christmas, 1522)

And:
"Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees . . . If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother." (Sermon, Christmas, 1529).


Did you also know that Martin Luther had the belief of Mary's Immaculate Conception? Luther's words follow:

"It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" (Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527).

"She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin- something exceedingly great. For God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil." (Personal {"Little"} Prayer Book, 1522).


Were you aware of Martin Luther's view on Mary's Perpetual Virginity?

Here are some of the founders of refom commenting on Mary:

Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb . . . This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that.
{Luther's Works, eds. Jaroslav Pelikan (vols. 1-30) & Helmut T. Lehmann (vols. 31-55), St. Louis: Concordia Pub. House (vols. 1-30); Philadelphia: Fortress Press (vols. 31-55), 1955, v.22:23 / Sermons on John, chaps. 1-4 (1539) }
Christ . . . was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him . . . I am inclined to agree with those who declare that 'brothers' really mean 'cousins' here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers.
{Pelikan, ibid., v.22:214-15 / Sermons on John, chaps. 1-4 (1539)


Luther . . . does not even consider the possibility that Mary might have had other children than Jesus. This is consistent with his lifelong acceptance of the idea of the perpetual virginity of Mary.

". . . she is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin. . . . God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. . . . God is with her, meaning that all she did or left undone is divine and the action of God in her. Moreover, God guarded and protected her from all that might be hurtful to her." --Ref: Luther's Works, American edition, vol. 43, p. 40, ed. H. Lehmann, Fortress, 1968.


If interested, I could bring up many many more.


Pax Christi


"For he has looked upon his handmaid's lowless; behold, from now on all ages call me blessed." Lk.1:48.

In other words, you cannot or will not supply it. It does not matter to me if Luther said it or not, this will not effect the truth. I will find it if it exists, and get down to the bottom of the matter. It is important to do such since so many misquote or even fabricate that which supports false claims. Thanks for the info.

None of the above in relation to Mary should come as a surprise? At one time Luther was a devout Catholic monk and priest. Reformation is progressive in individuals and institutions. Luther was a reformer, not the end of reform and separation from Babylon, but just one of the many in the continuous reformation. He was wrong about many things, and one can see his changing views within his own writings over the course of their history. Some use this to their own advantage when quoting him, quoting him early on to support their own views concerning things he changed his mind about later. Deception is rife, all things must be carefully examined in our day, and it will only get worse.


Mary herself will be horrified to find the extent to which she has been glorified by humanity in the place of God. She was a devout Jew, and when she realizes that countless people were deceived into bowing down before images of her and praying to her in violation of the second commandment, she will no doubt experience great sorrow.

Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

 

[keeth]

I am brand new here, so I beg your indulgence. If Catholicism is heresy does that mean that mean then that no one was saved between the 1st and 16 century?

No, for several reasons. The Catholic Church did not exist during the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century. It developed slowly over several centuries. During that development there were always many who did not agree with or participate in the changes which brought her into existence. All of whom she eventually persecuted and or killed when she obtained the power of the state to execute such for her. There have always been man Christians outside of the Catholic Church.

Apart from this, many Catholics themselves will be judged as the heathen or gentiles were or are according to scripture. Once Rome succeeded in removing the scriptures from public view, and establishing their authority in its place, the dark ages were upon us. People who had no access to the scriptures, will of course be judged by God according to the same. They will be judged as the Gentiles of old, according as Paul has testified.


Ro 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

 

[notuptome]

With you posting this passage notuptome, I have to ask....Are you a blessing to your family and neighbors? Yes...No? Well, in this passage, when an admirer wished to compliment Jesus by praising his mother, Jesus did not deny the truth of the blessing she pronounced. Her beatitude (which means "blessedness" or "happiness") recalls Mary's canticle: All generations will call me blessed (Luke 1:48). Jesus adds to her words by pointing to the source of all true blessedness or happiness -- union with God. Mary humbly submitted herself to the miraculous plan of God for the incarnation of his only begotten Son -- The Word of God made flesh in her womb, by declaring: I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be done to me according to your word (Luke 1:38). Mary heard the word spoken to her by the angel and she believed it. On another occasion Jesus pointed out that our true mother and brothers and sisters are those who hear the word of God and do it (Luke 8:21). They are truly blessed because they know their God personally and they find joy in hearing and obeying his word.

I don't know about you or the other non-Catholics that have posted here, but for us Catholics, our goal in life, the very reason we were created in the first place, is for union with God. We were made for God and our hearts are restless until they restr in him. An early martyr once said that "a Christian's only relatives are the saints." Those who follow Jesus Christ and who seek the will of God enter into a new family, a family of "saints" here on earth and in heaven. Jesus changes the order of relationships and shows that true kinship is not just a matter of flesh and blood. Our adoption as sons and daughters of God transforms all our relationships and requires a new order of loyalty to God and his kingdom.

In heaven all are one in Christ.

Wow.... you and santuzza really don't get it do ya? That is so sad. Jesus chose Mary for His mother from all eternity as part of God’s plan for our salvation. God could have sent His Son any way He chose. He chose to go through Mary to come to us. If Mary is good enough for God to go through to get closer to us, then she is good enough for us to go through to get closer to Him. When we honor her, we do as Jesus did when He followed the fourth commandment and honored His mother. If God is our Father and Jesus is our Brother, then only Mary could complete the family as our Mother.

Pure conjecture on your part. We need no mediator other than Christ.

Lol!!! For about the up-tenth time, Catholics DO NOT worship or idolize Mary, the Mother of Christ – as though she were a deity. Of all the misconceptions about Catholic belief and practice, this one is the most absurd. Catholics are just as aware as Protestants that Mary was a human creature, and therefore not entitled to the honors which are reserved to God alone. What many non-Catholics mistake for adoration is a very profound love and veneration, nothing more. Mary is not adored, first because God forbids it, and secondly because the Canon Law of the Catholic Church, which is based on Divine Law, forbids it. Canon Law 1255 of the 1918 Codex strictly forbids adoration of anyone other than the Holy Trinity. However, Catholics do feel that Mary is entitled to a great measure of exaltation because, in choosing her as the Mother of Redemption, God Himself exalted her – exalted her more than any other human person before or since. Catholics heap tribute and honor on Mary because they earnestly desire to be "followers of God, as most dear children." (Eph. 5:1). Mary herself prophesied: "For behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name." (Luke 1:48-49). Catholics know that every bit of the glory they give to Mary redounds to the glory of her divine Son, just as Mary magnified God, not herself, when Elizabeth blessed her. (Luke 1:41-55). They know that the closer they draw to her, the closer they draw to Him who was born of her. In the year 434 St. Vincent of Lerins defended Christian devotion to Mary this way: "Therefore, may God forbid that anyone should attempt to defraud Holy Mary of her privilege of divine grace and her special glory. For by a unique favor of our Lord and God she is confessed to be the most true and most blessed Mother of God."

What you say and what you do are not the same. Your actions betray you.

Really????? You actually put a limit on what God can do???? WOW!!!

Guess thats where you and I differ. We Catholics believe that every human being after the fall, including Mary ,was subject to being brought into this world with original sin and needs to be saved. However, Mary was saved from all sin, including original sin from the first moment of her conception. The following is an imperfect analogy. Imagine I am parachuting and falling through the air into quicksand. Suddenly, a gust of wind comes along and blows me away from the quicksand. I would say that at the moment of conception all human beings fall into a pit of quicksand called original sin. But in Mary's case God intervened and protected her from this at the moment of her conception by the merits of Jesus. She had no power or merit of her own that prevented her from falling into the quicksand of original sin. It was Divine Mercy which was preparing a place for the Incarnation. God was preparing an Ark of the Covenant to carry the Word of God.

St. Teresa of Ávila said: "I could have fallen like Mary Magdalene, but your forgiveness of me was greater than hers because you prevented me from falling."
This is a very good explanation of the Immaculate Conception. Mary was redeemed by God from the moment of her conception so that she never fell into sin. Catholics believe that Mary was saved by God from sin, but in a preventative way.

I love it when you guys go into the putting limits on God baloney. God has given us His word and God does not violate His word. It is not necessary for God to operate outside of His word. His word is perfect and eternal. You wish to play fast and loose with Gods word to accommodate superstitions and make believe but God does not operate like that. Allah may behave in a capricious and unpredictable fashion but not God Who is God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

"Meanwhile, standing near the cross of Jesus were his mother,... When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing beside her,.. he said to the disciple, “Here is your mother.”
- John 19

santuzza,
Christ gave us his mother to be our own. Yet you refuse this beautiful gift from God which he gave to us even from his cross?

You apparently have no interest in what Jesus did there on the cross. Jesus did not give Mary to us.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[KenAllan]

Mary was blessed BUT only among other Women! She was not blessed greater than Men.

Also The Holy Spirit says in Scriptures that the many others were Blessed just like Mary.

Matthew 5:3-11 (NASB77)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] " Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] "Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] "Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] "Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] "Blessed are you when men cast insults at you, and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, on account of Me.


Luke 11:27-28 [SUP]27 [/SUP]As he was speaking, a woman in the crowd called out, “God bless your mother—the womb from which you came, and the breasts that gave you suck!”

[SUP]28 [/SUP]He replied, “Yes, but even more blessed are all who hear the Word of God and put it into practice.”

God says those who hear the Word of God and practice it are MORE blessed then Mary!

So why Thomistcolin are you putting Mary above everyone else? Could it be that Mary is your god? Could it be that you do not have Salvation? Because with Salvation comes the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise

Thomistcolin, you need to repent and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior so you too can receive the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit who will reveal the Truth in the Scriptures that you have been rejecting for the lies of the Catholic Church.

Its Jesus Christ who is greater than Mary! It is Jesus Christ we are to give 100% of our Heart, Soul, and mind! If you give anything to Mary you are NOT giving 100% to God!

Matthew 22:37-38
[SUP]37 [/SUP] And He said to him, "' YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "This is the great and foremost commandment.

By giving anything to Mary you are breaking the greatest command God ever gave! This is a MORTAL sin, Thomistcolin! Breaking this commandment will destroy your soul in Hell!

Turn around, reject Mary and the Catholic Church and give everything you have to God only!

 

[keeth]

And you are not even willing to believe she is the greatest woman ever to have lived? That she is blessed above all women? That she is the Mother of our Lord? That it was at her voice that John leaped in the womb?

Confessing nothing else, are you so blind as to attack us and in so doing insult Mary, your sister and mother in Christ?

You deny that she was sinless, fine by me, but don't be so ugly as to attack your own sister in Christ so that you might offend us.

Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ existed and exists from eternity. Mary was the mother of the man Jesus Christ, and not His divinity in any way shape or from. The phrase Mother of God is blasphemous. God had to unite with fallen humanity in order to save us. This is where Mary comes into the picture, she was part of fallen sinful humanity. In coming to humanity through her, He inherited our same nature. That He might deliver us from the same, seeing that we were and are not capable of doing the same.

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

This was the purpose of Christ coming to us through Mary. Not to establish or exalt her, but to bring God down to us, to reach us where we are. This, that He might taste death for everyone of us, and raise us up in and through Himself, not Mary or any other sinful human being.

Heb 2:14 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 10 ¶ For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. 13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 ¶ Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.


Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

It is all about the exaltation of Christ, that fallen humanity might be lifted up in and through Him also. He came down to us to bring us back up with Him. We are to be drawn to Him, not Mary or any other fallen sinful human being, none of whom can ever save us.

Jn 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

It is deception to point humanity to any other than Christ for salvation and intercession between fallen humanity and God.
The scriptures simply do not put forth Mary or any other Saints as our intercessors or advocates in heaven. All such serves to distract and or detract from the truth and glory of our salvation in Jesus Christ. Who alone lives to intercede before the Father for us in the sanctuary of heaven.

Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. 23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: 24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. 28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.
8:1 ¶ Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

 

[keeth]

"Meanwhile, standing near the cross of Jesus were his mother,... When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing beside her,.. he said to the disciple, “Here is your mother.”
- John 19

santuzza,
Christ gave us his mother to be our own. Yet you refuse this beautiful gift from God which he gave to us even from his cross?

Jn 19:25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! 27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Just how does the above equate to Mary being the Mother of the Church of Christ? It is obviously in relation to one of the disciples, not a general statement regarding the entire church.

 

[Maynard]

Jn 19:25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! 27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Just how does the above equate to Mary being the Mother of the Church of Christ? It is obviously in relation to one of the disciples, not a general statement regarding the entire church.

I might suggest that you spend less time copying and pasting scriptures in flurry's of forum posts and more time meditating on the words of Christ and what it is that He is actually saying. What it is that he is speaking to you. Why those last 7 words which our Lord spoke before his death have far far deeper meaning than that utterly superficial understanding which you're limiting yourself to.

 

[Maynard]

Reformation is progressive in individuals and institutions. Luther was a reformer, not the end of reform

Yes, and now any and every village idiot can start his own church and teach people a lot of crap according to their own fallible interpretation of the Word. A lot like these forums, in fact.

Some use this to their own advantage when quoting him (Martin Luther), quoting him early on to support their own views

This he said shortly before his death, actually..

. . . "I confess, that I am much more negligent, than I was under the Pope, and there is now nowhere such an amount of earnestness under the Gospel, as was formerly seen among Monks and Priests."

"After the dominion and power of the Pope has ceased . . . the people, while despising the true doctrine, are now changed into mere irrational animals and beasts"

"Who would have begun to preach, if we had known beforehand that so much unhappiness, tumult, scandal, blasphemy, ingratitude, and wickedness would have been the result?" [Walch. VIII. 564]

And he goes on and on and on about his disgust over the reformation/reformers..


Sorry that his own words do not support your own argument for him, keeth. In the end though Martin Luther did not think too highly of your reformation, and neither did he think very highly of you reformers.

 

[keeth]

I might suggest that you spend less time copying and pasting scriptures in flurry's of forum posts and more time meditating on the words of Christ and what it is that He is actually saying. What it is that he is speaking to you. Why those last 7 words which our Lord spoke before his death have far far deeper meaning than that utterly superficial understanding which you're limiting yourself to.

You might suggest whatever you wish, it will not make anything true. If what you believe is true, there should certainly be more than this one obscure statement from scripture indicating it. Please do expound with more scripture.