Catholic Heresy (for the record)
- Thread starter RoboOp
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
M
Jesusisall , I have no idea who or what you are, but chances are I have belonged to a similar congregation to yours at some point along the way, so I can relate both to people who think as you do, and the ones you now criticise.
The question you need to ask yourself is far closer to home, than pointing fingers at catholics, and it is very simple but profound. If Protestant interpretation of scripture was so obviously correct, why is it Protestants disagree with each other on literally every material matter of doctrine, from Eucharist in many flavours to baptism, diametrically opposed views on salvation to predestination, the necessity of clergy, liturgy, , prolife, pro choice and scores of other serious issues of theology.. And their differences are so profound they have fractured into thousands of pieces because they could not reconcile the differences within each other, so split with monotonous regularity, because all get to decide their own version, since they cannot agree with each other.
How then can you proclaim to know the truth, or indeed criticise others theology when your own theology as a Protestant is so uncertain? Almost of these must be false doctrine, because they disagree and only one version can be true, yet those who preach them all claim to have discerned the spirit, so it clearly did not work.
So beware of the theological ground on which you walk, do not worry about others such as RCC you have too many problems of your own.
And by the time you reduce to the common core , you are left with the creed that most believe including catholics, but even that is not universal, Pentecostals cannot even agree on that!
So using your own quotes, when you Speak of "opening Pandora's box" even Luther believed it was when the reformation that empowered every " milkmaid to have their own doctrine " based upon " self appointed authority" and a mass of divergent " very faulty scripture exegesis" - Luther despaired of this, and stated in later life he could have foreseen the outcome, he would never have done what he did, and the only way back was to the councils of Rome
So worry about your own theology how can you know it is right,,since few of your Protestant brothers agree let alone RCC.
J
You talking to me? That's a really great soliloquy, but I have no idea what you're talking about in my experience. The world is full of cult whackjobs, of all stripes, but I've never been of the congregation of any good, Bible believing church that did not have great agreement over the whole gospel of the Bible. We know what the Bible teaches. I'm not the slightest confused, and even over theological matters you don't yet have right on a whole wall of your Catholic books. I don't even see anybody bickering in the real world, like here. The world is full of all sorts of garbage, but I know I don't go to church at any landfill. You should try this approach yourself sometime.
We Protestants may disagree with some Doctrine.
BUT at LEAST we DO NOT spit in God's face and say Mary is SINLESS!
BUT at LEAST we DO NOT spit in God's face and say Mary is Co-redemptrix!
BUT at LEAST we DO NOT spit in God's face and say Mary is a Mediatrix!
BUT at LEAST we DO NOT spit in God's face and say Mary is Queen of Heaven!
BUT at LEAST we DO NOT spit in God's face and say Mary is still a Virgin!
BUT at LEAST we DO NOT spit in God's face and say Mary was Assumed into Heaven!
BUT at LEAST we DO NOT spit in God's face and say Mary has the right to Veneration and Worship!
We only teach what God says in the Bible. We do not make up fables about Mary to try and prove we are the only True Christians!
BUT at LEAST we DO NOT spit in God's face and say Mary is SINLESS!
BUT at LEAST we DO NOT spit in God's face and say Mary is Co-redemptrix!
BUT at LEAST we DO NOT spit in God's face and say Mary is a Mediatrix!
BUT at LEAST we DO NOT spit in God's face and say Mary is Queen of Heaven!
BUT at LEAST we DO NOT spit in God's face and say Mary is still a Virgin!
BUT at LEAST we DO NOT spit in God's face and say Mary was Assumed into Heaven!
BUT at LEAST we DO NOT spit in God's face and say Mary has the right to Veneration and Worship!
We only teach what God says in the Bible. We do not make up fables about Mary to try and prove we are the only True Christians!
D
Well, in the gospel, John the Baptist said that Jesus would come and baptize with the Holy Spirit.
Also, I once read the Holy Spirit is not in competition with Jesus. This is logical if you believe in the Trinity.
Lastly, we do lots of things in the name of Jesus
Also, I once read the Holy Spirit is not in competition with Jesus. This is logical if you believe in the Trinity.
Lastly, we do lots of things in the name of Jesus
Did you know that the NT doesn't mention anyone being baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
Jesus didn't do it, and nor did his disciples. Paul didn't do it, and no one who followed Christ did it.
It was brought in by someone after and the Catholic Church with Constantine set it as being the Word. It never was.
The reason why it is so important as a starting point is because the WHOLE revelation of who Jesus Christ is is the rock that He said the church would be built on.
Peter had the revelation of who Jesus Christ was, that's why he said on the day of Pentecost that they must be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ.
Furthermore, besides being a revelation, it makes sense to baptise in that name of Jesus Christ because that is the body you are becoming a part of. Jesus Christ is the head and we are the body. Countless scriptures testify to being baptised by ONE Spirit into one body.
The truth has been lost. There is no following of what the Apostles first did. How can a church say they are following what the founding Apostles did or said, or what the Bible teaches, when they do not follow the very basics that are written for all to see?
'Repent and be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ...' And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The emphasis is not on water baptism, although that is part of it; the emphasis is on Jesus Christ and who He is, and becoming part of Him.
You cannot become part of Him any other way except by a spiritual union.
There MUST be a returning to the original faith.
Do any of you recall how The Blessed Mary said, in scripture, " All generations will call me Blessed"? You all seem to ignore this. i know ONE church that still calls her Blessed. Yall treat her like trash and nobody will treat my mother like that. You pick and choose. what you want from the paper and ink you worship
M
Then if you do not see , open your eyes.
This forum has bitter and angry disputes on all the issues I mention, all Protestant affairs, and indeed the same issues have been responsible for congregations fracturing with monotonous regularity. You cannot simultaneously hold that the Eucharist is both real presence in flesh , spirit or just a symbol, and you cannot belong to a congregation that holds the opposite view to yours, because the other commits a profanity. Nor can you believe in both OSAS and at the other extreme believe that you are not saved until judgement, and how you live your life as a Christian will depend which views you mix and match from a VERY long list of issues! It is precisely because the evangelists have such shallow theology, that they fudge all these issues nor had good answers that I had to move on.
Then check out the history of the bible and see that it did not drop out of the sky. The first Christians were not bible Christians as you understand it because the New Testament did not exist yet, the faith was passed on by paradosis, tradition, meaning a " handing down" which is why Paul says " hold true to tradition taught to you by word of mouth and letter" , notice he does not say
Gospels, they did not exist at that time in common circulation. And it is also why the bible says " the pillar and foundation of truth is the church" , not the bible. So if you look in scripture to see where it says " to be true it must be in the bible" and you will look in vain, it is not there. Sola scriptura is an impossible doctrine in historic and logical terms, and the bible nowhere says it.
In short , open your eyes and study the shaky theological ground you walk on, don't worry about pointing fingers at others
This forum has bitter and angry disputes on all the issues I mention, all Protestant affairs, and indeed the same issues have been responsible for congregations fracturing with monotonous regularity. You cannot simultaneously hold that the Eucharist is both real presence in flesh , spirit or just a symbol, and you cannot belong to a congregation that holds the opposite view to yours, because the other commits a profanity. Nor can you believe in both OSAS and at the other extreme believe that you are not saved until judgement, and how you live your life as a Christian will depend which views you mix and match from a VERY long list of issues! It is precisely because the evangelists have such shallow theology, that they fudge all these issues nor had good answers that I had to move on.
Then check out the history of the bible and see that it did not drop out of the sky. The first Christians were not bible Christians as you understand it because the New Testament did not exist yet, the faith was passed on by paradosis, tradition, meaning a " handing down" which is why Paul says " hold true to tradition taught to you by word of mouth and letter" , notice he does not say
Gospels, they did not exist at that time in common circulation. And it is also why the bible says " the pillar and foundation of truth is the church" , not the bible. So if you look in scripture to see where it says " to be true it must be in the bible" and you will look in vain, it is not there. Sola scriptura is an impossible doctrine in historic and logical terms, and the bible nowhere says it.
In short , open your eyes and study the shaky theological ground you walk on, don't worry about pointing fingers at others
M
You disagree on ALL aspects of doctrine, but few Protestants take the trouble to find out what the next church believes, indeed they are often surprised when they realise what their own congregation is supposed to believes, and it is why every few decades they fall apart over doctrine.
Anyway I have looked all through the catechism, I cannot find anywhere that tells me to spit in Gods face, so I do not think it is catholic doctrine. Is that what you do in your congregation?
Anyway I have looked all through the catechism, I cannot find anywhere that tells me to spit in Gods face, so I do not think it is catholic doctrine. Is that what you do in your congregation?
M
Are you a Pentecostal deliver? Just trying to understand the issue you are making?
You need to recognise that the first Christians did not have the New Testament as you know it, the faith passed on by handing down. Nor does the scripture even as it ultimately became, claim to be a complete " how to" manual of Christian living.
But you can get a good idea of what the apostles taught by looking at such as the didache written in the lifetime of some apostles, which clearly talks of baptism in the name of " the father , the son and the spirit" , and prefers running water to do it. A Letter of ignatius ( only one generation on) to smyrneans saying that the it had to be performed by a bishop ( successor to the apostles) or those he empowered. So that is what the early Christians did. The New Testament as you know it came later.
You need to recognise that the first Christians did not have the New Testament as you know it, the faith passed on by handing down. Nor does the scripture even as it ultimately became, claim to be a complete " how to" manual of Christian living.
But you can get a good idea of what the apostles taught by looking at such as the didache written in the lifetime of some apostles, which clearly talks of baptism in the name of " the father , the son and the spirit" , and prefers running water to do it. A Letter of ignatius ( only one generation on) to smyrneans saying that the it had to be performed by a bishop ( successor to the apostles) or those he empowered. So that is what the early Christians did. The New Testament as you know it came later.
You see you have this false idea that the hierarchy is all and that one group is superior to all others. You don't even understand what makes up the true church. The true Biblical church is composed of all true believers in Christ who have committed themselves to Him for Him to save them. They are one body with Christ's body. The outward church is not what matters. It is the true inward church which is all important which in the end only God knows. There is no one church which is the correct church. True believers are found in many churches.
But the Roman Catholic church is a heresy which arose in 8th century AD when it separated itself from the Catholic (universal) church.
But the Roman Catholic church is a heresy which arose in 8th century AD when it separated itself from the Catholic (universal) church.
The Papacy was not organized until the second half of the 8th century. It broke away from the Eastern Church under Pippin III (in the Ency. Brit., 13th Ed., vol. 21, page 636; also the Papacy, by Abbe Guette.).
It is not my position to forgive them. Ask their victims. But I certainly can't 'forgive' a church whose hierarchy continually covered up gross sin, who lied about it, and who finally only admitted it because they were caught red-handed. It revealed their corruption and their dishonesty Until all who were involved are removed from their exalted positions the church remains tainted by their presence.