Once saved always saved?

[BarlyGurl]

for your part, why would you want to leave out 9-11?

And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.
11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
​

verse 10 is especially poignant, i think:

But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.

​

keeping in mind that the "righteousness" Paul is talking about here is one that is declared and not earned - it is a righteousness by faith, not works. so it depends on God, who justifies, by mercy and by His foreknowledge and pre-ordination, not by works - because it is by the Spirit, given by grace through faith, not by whether or not our bodies are subject to death because of sin.

​

9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.
11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

Verses 4-8 are the admonishment, verses 9-11 is the exhortation
What is the Spirit of Christ? Is it lying, murder, adultery, fornication? No it isn't.... so examine yourself and repent of so doing and LIVE according to the Spirit. It is a supernatural empowerment to be able to live by the Spirit. We are OVERCOMERS THRU CHRIST.... not succumbers who have no ability to mortify the deeds of the FLESH.... Christ has empowered us we are supposed to USE IT... if you aren't USING the power it isn't faith.... you aren't believing it. This is the POWER given to us thru faith!
It isn't my will power or my work... it is the SUPERNATURAL POWER of God being worked.
It empowers you to RUN THE RACE.... RUN... RUN.
Kenneth is hollering "RUN" to the finish line... some of you are snarling at him to shut up and sit down!

 

[posthuman]

Once again I do not preach salvation by works, for that is a false accusation that some on here want to keep judging me with that I never do.

good!
& we're not preaching license to sin!

What I instruct on is how the bible shows a true faith in Christ is an active faith, which is what Paul is showing here in Romans 8. For he is saying if you walk by the Spirit (fruits) you will have eternal life, but if you walk by the flesh (sinful) then you are headed to eternal death.

he's drawing a difference between the carnal, unsaved man, and the spiritual man -- and the difference is in faith, not in works, because many people live righteous lives outwardly, but spiritually are dead, and even a man who constantly falls, may be justified by God inwardly.

he says though the body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of a righteousness that is not by works but by faith!

Apostle Paul is showing that a true born again believer in Christ by that faith will walk by and in those fruits of the Holy Spirit.

& why do you think he is reminding the believers of this, because it is obvious and they don't need to be told?
have a look at the first 15 or so verses of Romans 6 -- Paul tells us about 10 times that we are dead! that we have died! that we have been crucified! and then the first "command" in the entire book, the first time he actually says that we should "do" anything at all, he says "consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God" !
now if that is so obvious and self explanatory, why does it need to be driven home by repeating it 8 or 10 times in a row?
why do we have to be "told" to consider ourselves dead to sin, if we're already dead?

do you reckon maybe our physical reality needs some encouragement to catch up to the spiritual reality?
that maybe we need reminding of who we actually are in Christ?

see, Paul doesn't tell us that we need to constantly kill ourselves with regard to sin. he tells us that we are dead
already with regard to sin, so we need to catch up and live like it.

does that sound like we're preaching license to sin?
brother, we're preaching freedom from sin, and a reason not to continue in it that is motivated by love, boldness in truth & by wisdom, not by fear.
when that hit me, it hit me hard.

 

[KennethC]

there's probably a reason you mentioned this verse but didn't quote it --

21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’​

maybe because it does not say at all what you said it says?
where is the bit about "they believed in Jesus as their Lord and Savior" ?
i see instead that they boasted of the mighty righteous they did in His name.
where does it say "they continued to live their lawless lives" ?
i see instead that they did not do the will of the Father -- and the will of the Father is that we believe in the one who was sent to propitiate our sin (John 6:29) and that all who look to Him ((not to righteous works)) should be saved (John 6:40).

& like Dcon pointed out -- Christ said He "never knew" these -- that means they were not at one time saved ((known by Him)) and then lost salvation. it means they were never saved at all!!
why?
plainly, because they trusted in their own works, and not in His mercy.

we have to come humbly to Him, not proudly.

boasting? it is excluded.
how is it excluded if i'm holding up half or more the burden??
the only boasting is that we have known His mercy!

21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Did they not call Jesus their Lord ?

Yes they did and even said they did things in His name, this would mean they had to believe in Him.
Also the scriptures say only by the Holy Spirit can you call Him Lord......1 Corinthians 12:3

Once again this is a misconception that they were boasting about works, as what they were really doing is pleading with the Lord on why they were not receiving eternal life because they did things He said we will do. Jesus tells them because they lived lives of lawlessness (sinful) He therefore denied them because they denied Him by their actions.

They tried to serve two masters both the Lord and their sinful flesh, and the Lord spit them out for being lukewarm !!!

 

[KennethC]

good!
& we're not preaching license to sin!




he's drawing a difference between the carnal, unsaved man, and the spiritual man -- and the difference is in faith, not in works, because many people live righteous lives outwardly, but spiritually are dead, and even a man who constantly falls, may be justified by God inwardly.

he says though the body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of a righteousness that is not by works but by faith!



& why do you think he is reminding the believers of this, because it is obvious and they don't need to be told?
have a look at the first 15 or so verses of Romans 6 -- Paul tells us about 10 times that we are dead! that we have died! that we have been crucified! and then the first "command" in the entire book, the first time he actually says that we should "do" anything at all, he says "consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God" !
now if that is so obvious and self explanatory, why does it need to be driven home by repeating it 8 or 10 times in a row?
why do we have to be "told" to consider ourselves dead to sin, if we're already dead?

do you reckon maybe our physical reality needs some encouragement to catch up to the spiritual reality?
that maybe we need reminding of who we actually are in Christ?

see, Paul doesn't tell us that we need to constantly kill ourselves with regard to sin. he tells us that we are dead
already with regard to sin, so we need to catch up and live like it.

does that sound like we're preaching license to sin?
brother, we're preaching freedom from sin, and a reason not to continue in it that is motivated by love, boldness in truth & by wisdom, not by fear.
when that hit me, it hit me hard.

No Apostle Paul is reminding them because we still have our free will in tact to chose how to walk and who to serve.
For notice how in Romans 8 Apostle Paul says he is speaking to the brethren (believers) on how they can and can not walk in the faith, he is not talking to unbelievers at all here on this.

He tells a believer that if they walk by the flesh they will die, but if they walk by the Spirit they will have eternal life !!!

 

[KennethC]

What Does the Bible Say About Will Of God?

Here is a list of verses from the bible that shows the will of God is not just mere belief !!!

 

[posthuman]

It isn't my will power or my work... it is the SUPERNATURAL POWER of God being worked.
It empowers you to RUN THE RACE.... RUN... RUN.

amen sister! - and not like a runner who can't win - but one who is sure!
the victory is already ours, and we should be sprinting for the line to capture the record time! certainly not sitting down folding our hands in our laps!

Kenneth is hollering "RUN" to the finish line... some of you are snarling at him to shut up and sit down!

it's a good thing that the weapons we point at each other are blunted, isn't it?
that God is the judge and not us?
because we spar and play at war with each other, while the battle belongs to the Lord.
if it were all up to us, between all of us no one would be saved, haha we'd all condemn each other!

but we need to sharpen each other, and the warrior with the greater skill is the one who is able to show restraint

 

[psychomom]

That's not my testimony.

I don't think that would be Paul's testimony.

Whose testimony will it be?

my firm Hope is it will never be mine

my Hope is having been chosen to be in Christ.
my Hope is God in Christ has accomplished everything necessary to rescue sinners.

my Hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness.
i dare not trust the sweetest frame, but wholly lean on Jesus' Name.

Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful (Heb 10:23)

it's not about me, it's about the One Who has promised

 

[crossnote]

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (Joh 10:27-29)

What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom 8:31-39)

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. (Rom 5:10)

"Truly, I tell all of you with certainty, whoever hears what I say and believes in the one who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged, but has passed from death to life. (Joh 5:24)

he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
(Tit 3:5-7)



LET THE DOUBTERS DOUBT!!

 

[Angela53510]

Yes Angela you should have used the whole chapter because you left out Romans 8:4-8, and 12-13 where Paul is telling the brethren (believers) that if they continue to walk by the flesh (sinful ways) instead of by the Spirit they will receive eternal death and not eternal life.

So then, Kenneth, what do you make of Romans 8:39?

"nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:26-39"

Nothing in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord!

 

[crossnote]

So then, Kenneth, what do you make of Romans 8:39?

"nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:26-39"

Nothing in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord!

My guess is that KC will say, "But we can"...even though we are part of that creation.

 

[jonl]

No Apostle Paul is reminding them because we still have our free will in tact to chose how to walk and who to serve.
For notice how in Romans 8 Apostle Paul says he is speaking to the brethren (believers) on how they can and can not walk in the faith, he is not talking to unbelievers at all here on this.

He tells a believer that if they walk by the flesh they will die, but if they walk by the Spirit they will have eternal life !!!

I agree. It’s very important to continue in faith (“walk in the Spirit”).

It’s easy to talk about it, but when a believer is “walking through the shadow of the valley of death,” it’s very hard to endure, and faith seems to ebb away. But somehow the Lord led me through so far. So I understand what Paul is saying about God’s protection and healing power. (Romans 8:38:39)

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The trials and temptations can be so excruciating that Jesus said (Luke 18:8) – “Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?"

http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/RA/k/1434/Will-Christ-Find-Faith.htm

IMO, there needs to be an intense willingness on the believer’s part to want Christ’s salvation, to want the kingdom of heaven that Jesus talked about.

 

[wattie]

Yup.. whenever someone bring up... God won't leave nor forsake you.. they will say .. but 'I can leave God'

This is a logical contradiction.

Because in the process of leaving God..he is still inside.. having indwelled you with the Holy Spirit.

Like eating an apple and then saying 'now I will walk away from the apple'

The other thing is.. like others have posted..

OSAS teaching isn't about a license to sin.. that is thinking carnally.

Do you really think someone is going to be unthankful back to someone who saves them from death?

OSAS is-- I have been freed from sin.. I have eternal life. This is huge love! This is massive grace to a dirty rotten sinner as I! Propitiation.. justification.

Now .. knowing this love.. that is the motivation to love God back.

Not fear

Not guilt


The other thing is: when a saved person sins.. how are they going to turn from it? By condemning themselves after? Or feeling condemned? No.

By acknowledging their sin and then knowing they can't continue in their own strength. Thinking on what the Holy Spirit wants for them, rather than the sin.

This is all predicated on the fact.. that during this time.. there eternal salvation is secure. Otherwise there is no turning from sin.

 

[mailmandan]

I have a question for you:

Are you another that denies the Lord Jesus own words from Luke 6:46-49 where He Himself says those that truly believe in Him (foundation of faith built on Him) are the ones' that "do" what He said?

I don't deny this. Who is denying this?

He also says in that same passage that those who does not do what He said do not have their faith built on Him, for He says and shows multiple times if you love and trust in Him you also will trust in following what He said. There is to much teaching from others that obedience is not needed, but obedience is the showing of a true born again faith in the Lord.

Yes, obedience is the showing of a true born again faith in the Lord. James said we show our faith by our works (James 2:18). This does not mean that we are saved based on the merits of our multiple acts of obedience/works.

A constant continuous instructing of you don't have to do this, or you don't have to do that, when the Lord said we do is a sign of an unregenerated heart.

Refusing to do anything the Lord says is a sign of an unregenerate heart.

How can a person say you love Him and trust Him as your Lord and Savior, and then say you don't have to follow what He said ??? That boggles my mind that some who claim to be Christians say this constantly !!!

Who is saying they love and trust in Jesus as their Lord and Savior but they don't follow anything He says? That would be an OXYMORON.

 

[mailmandan]

21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

John 6:40 - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

These many people in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in THEIR accomplishments/works to save them and not in CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them (John 17:3). They were never saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was not obeying Him. This is why Jesus referred to them as workers of iniquity/lawlessness! They were self righteous! They said, "Lord, Lord," but did not do His will in order to become saved (John 6:40) or throughout their unregenerate life.

Did they not call Jesus their Lord ?

Many unbelievers who think they are saved but are not "I call them religious but not right with God" still call Jesus their Lord.

Yes they did and even said they did things in His name, this would mean they had to believe in Him.

No this doesn't mean they had to believe in Him. Jesus said He NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. John 17:3 - And this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge.

Also the scriptures say only by the Holy Spirit can you call Him Lord......1 Corinthians 12:3

Simply reciting the word "Lord" does not necessarily mean you are saying it by the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when truly confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior.

Once again this is a misconception that they were boasting about works, as what they were really doing is pleading with the Lord on why they were not receiving eternal life because they did things He said we will do. Jesus tells them because they lived lives of lawlessness (sinful) He therefore denied them because they denied Him by their actions.

Once again, these many people in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in THEIR accomplishments/works to save them and not in CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was really disobedience. Without faith it's impossible to please God. Everything they did was still stained with sin. They were not saved. This is why Jesus referred to them as WORKERS OF INIQUITY/LAWLESSNESS!

They tried to serve two masters both the Lord and their sinful flesh, and the Lord spit them out for being lukewarm !!!

No, they were self righteous lost unbelievers who thought they were serving the Lord but were deceived. Just like many people in various cults and false religions that call themselves Christian. But Jesus NEVER knew them.

 

[posthuman]

21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Did they not call Jesus their Lord ?

Yes they did and even said they did things in His name, this would mean they had to believe in Him.
Also the scriptures say only by the Holy Spirit can you call Him Lord......1 Corinthians 12:3

whoah! is this a contradiction in the scripture then?
are they speaking by the Holy Spirit when they say to Him "Lord, Lord" ?

or is saying "Lord, Lord" not the same as believing He is Lord?
if i believe He is Lord, shouldn't i be saying "you are just and judgement belongs to you, have mercy on me"
instead of "but.. but.. look at all the things i did! you've made a mistake about me!"
what do i believe about Him if i'm trying to correct Him?
what do i believe about myself if i'm pointing at the things i did on that day?

Once again this is a misconception that they were boasting about works, as what they were really doing is pleading with the Lord on why they were not receiving eternal life because they did things He said we will do. Jesus tells them because they lived lives of lawlessness (sinful) He therefore denied them because they denied Him by their actions.

hang on look at what you just said:

a misconception that they were boasting about works, as what they were really doing is pleading with the Lord on why they were not receiving eternal life because they did things He said we will do.

"things they did" -- that's not what you'd call "works" ??

and you infer that they denied Him by their actions at the same time that they did the things He said we would do?

They tried to serve two masters both the Lord and their sinful flesh, and the Lord spit them out for being lukewarm !!!

where do you get "lukewarm" from? aren't we talking about people who spent all their lives prophesying, driving out demons and performing many miracles? i dunno. that doesn't sound "lukewarm" to me. sounds pretty busy, honestly.

the thing that is missing here is that.. well let's look at another group of people that called out to Him for contrast:

And behold, there were two blind men sitting by the roadside, and when they heard that Jesus was passing by, they cried out, ​

“Lord, have mercy on us, Son of David!” ​

The crowd rebuked them, telling them to be silent, but they cried out all the more, ​

“Lord, have mercy on us, Son of David!” ​

And stopping, Jesus called them and said, ​

“What do you want me to do for you?” ​

They said to him, ​

“Lord, let our eyes be opened.” ​

And Jesus in pity touched their eyes, and immediately they recovered their sight and followed him.
(Matthew 20:30-34)​

see anything different here, in the way that these people spoke to Him?

 

[valiant]

No Apostle Paul is reminding them because we still have our free will in tact to chose how to walk and who to serve.

So you don't think God is able to persuade us to do His will? You have a strange idea of God. Your God is clearly a weak God.

For notice how in Romans 8 Apostle Paul says he is speaking to the brethren (believers) on how they can and can not walk in the faith, he is not talking to unbelievers at all here on this.

You are obviously entitled to your strange opinions. He is clearly contrasting believers and unbelievers. 'But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if so be the Spirit of God dwells in you.' It is only unbelievers who lack the Spirit.

He tells a believer that if they walk by the flesh they will die, but if they walk by the Spirit they will have eternal life !!!

He is addressing all members of the church not just the true believers. He is as aware as we are that church members may not be true believers. He would still call them brethren.

 

[jonl]

.....

This is all predicated on the fact.. that during this time.. there eternal salvation is secure. Otherwise there is no turning from sin.

I think depending on “eternal security” is a slippery slope. Jesus said that obedience to his words was essential: (Matthew 7:24 - 27)

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
[SUP]25[/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
………
[SUP]26[/SUP]And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
[SUP]27[/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

The serpent had convinced Eve that "thou wilt surely not die [if you disobey God and eat the forbidden fruit]." It's similar to the "eternal security" deception of today.

 

[valiant]

21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Did they not call Jesus their Lord ?

And did not Jesus say that He NEVER knew them?

Yes they did and even said they did things in His name, this would mean they had to believe in Him.

Judas wrought miracles in His Name and never new Him. Unbelivers can perform miracles and even cast out demons. I could name you quite a few.

Also the scriptures say only by the Holy Spirit can you call Him Lord......1 Corinthians 12:3

You err not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. That verse has in mind when prophesying or speaking in tongues, not ordinary conversation. Anyone can CALL Jesus Lord. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

Once again this is a misconception that they were boasting about works, as what they were really doing is pleading with the Lord on why they were not receiving eternal life because they did things He said we will do. Jesus tells them because they lived lives of lawlessness (sinful) He therefore denied them because they denied Him by their actions.

And Jesus said the He had NEVER known them. So they had clearly not been true believers. Don't you believe Jesus' words?

They tried to serve two masters both the Lord and their sinful flesh, and the Lord spit them out for being lukewarm !!!

How could the Lord spit them out when He had NEVER known them?

 

[mailmandan]

I think depending on “eternal security” is a slippery slope. Jesus said that obedience to his words was essential: (Matthew 7:24 - 27)

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
[SUP]25[/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
………
[SUP]26[/SUP]And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
[SUP]27[/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Obedience to His words is essential to demonstrate that we do believe in Him and are saved or essential to maintain our salvation by works? The latter is the slippery slope.

The serpent had convinced Eve that "thou wilt surely not die [if you disobey God and eat the forbidden fruit]." It's similar to the "eternal security" deception of today.

So there was no hope for Adam and Eve after that? Have you ever disobeyed God? We all have. The problem - Romans 3:23. The solution - Romans 6:23. Eternal security of the believer is not about a license to sin. It's about God's preservation of His saints (Psalms 37:28; Jude 1:1).

 

[mailmandan]

And did not Jesus say that He NEVER knew them?

Exactly! Jesus said not everyone who says, Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven which means not everyone who says Lord, Lord is saved. Of these many people, Jesus clearly said I NEVER knew you (that settles the issue). Notice that Jesus did not say, "I once knew you but don't anymore."

Judas wrought miracles in His Name and never new Him. Unbelivers can perform miracles and even cast out demons. I could name you quite a few.

Jesus referred to Judas as a devil! (John 6:70). In John 13:10-11, we read - Jesus said to him, "He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you." For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, "You are not all clean." Judas was clearly a wolf in sheep's clothing.