Is the Old Testament the Old Law? Should we Follow it?

[Biblelogic01]

The OP asked a question, and she gave him an answer.

I don't think she was implying her answer to you, she was implying it to the OP.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I found it confusing too so I set about studying and praying as I went. It took a few days but it was so very well worth it! A clear understanding of the old covenant and what is referred to as the new covenant but actual translation from original Aramaic texts show that the correct term is “renewed” covenant.

Experience has shown me over and over that what God says in His Word is true, and most professing Christians would agree with that simple statement. Likewise, it has also been proven that many professing Christians are exactly that – professing to be Christians, all the while having been misled somewhere along the way, into believing that their carnal minds are somehow compatible with the Word of God which is only spiritually discerned. It is not warm and fuzzy. It is many times not logical by our 21st century standards. It is however, the very Words of El ‘Elyon (The Most High God), every one of which we are to live by according to both Deuteronomy 8:3 - He humbled you and let you be hungry, and fed you with manna which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that He might make you understand that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by everything that proceeds out of the mouth of the LORD, and Matthew 4:4 - But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.' "

God likes to use covenants. They are important to Him and should be to us…but they aren’t.

There really is no such thing as “new” and “old” covenants, as we commonly hear in the Christian community - they are different levels of a progressive restoration process.

Then there is the scripture that uses the term “New Covenant” which those who prefer to disregard the Old Testament as being anything more than mere history like to point out. They claim this entirely nullifies the “Old Covenant” or the “Law” and they teach others to ignore what God requires of us, which is to keep the covenants which began with God and Adam. It is always a challenge to think about something we have some degree of familiarity with in a different aspect because we are used to thinking about it a certain way. We are creatures of habit, after all. However, to study for the purpose of learning the truth, this is what must be done.

Obviously, it is of the utmost importance to let scripture speak for itself and to always compare scripture with scripture, taking context into account. Another thing often forgotten is that there are words that have been added that were not in the original text when the KJV was written, and they are the italicized words. The KJV is not my favorite translation but it does clearly show these italicized words which makes it a beneficial version to use when studying alongside other versions or translations.

I found it fascinating and I will be happy to go on if you would like to read more.

Greetings just-us-2,

If you follow this path by putting yourself under the works law, you will belong to the slave woman and her son who will not share in the inheritance with the free woman and her son of promise. You will also become what Paul described below:

"What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone." (Rom.9:30-32)

"It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression." (Rom.4:13-15)

"For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God." (Rom.10:4)

Friend, Jesus came and meet the righteous requirements of the law on our behalf, fulfilling what humanity could not do. If you put yourself under works as a requirement for salvation, you are in essence saying to Jesus, "your sacrifice was insufficient". If you attempt to keep the works of the law as a condition for salvation, it will have the opposite affect upon you keeping you out of eternal life. Father Abraham is our example. Scripture says, He believed God regarding his promise to give him a son and Abraham believed him and it was credited to him as righteousness, and that's it, no works, no baptism, no feeding and clothing the poor, etc., just faith alone.

When we have faith regarding God's Son whom he sent, by faith in him we have forgiveness of sins and eternal life because he kept the law perfectly and he paid the penalty for our sins with his blood, then we too are credited with righteousness as father Abraham was. Good works will come later from the indwelling of the Spirit and that for the glory of God and not to obtain or maintain salvation, which Christ already provided with his blood.

Anyone who has a list of requirements to be saved along side of Christ's sacrifice has been alienated from Christ and has wander away from grace. Grace and works are opposed to each other, for grace is unmerited favor, a gift, that is, unearned favor, where the works of the law are an attempt to earn your own way into the kingdom of God by your own efforts.

"Now to the one who works, his wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness." (Rom.4:4)

In the example above, the one who works represents the one who is trusting in the law and would receive his pay as an obligation. But for the one who does not work (does not put himself under the works of the law) but trusts in God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited to them as righteousness, which is God's way to eternal life.

"know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified."

My friendly advice to you, is to go back and closely read the letter to the Galatians and the letter to the Romans and pay attention to everything that Paul says regarding salvation by grace through faith vs. the works of the law.

Blessings in Christ!

 

[Ahwatukee]

[/B]
Go and read Romans, Galatians and Hebrews and see if you still think that.

Amen shotgunner! I just said the same thing in response to "Just-us-2"

To davidb87, if you put yourself under the works of the law as a requirement for salvation and eternal life, it will have the opposite affect keeping you from salvation and eternal life.

 

[Kefa54]

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Matthew 5:17 "Don't assume that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Jesus ministry ended when he died on the cross. John 19:30 When Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" Then bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

John 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit--the Father will send Him in My name--will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have told you.

Anything up until Jesus died is considered old covenant. The New Covenant didn't start until his death and his ministry was over.

Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written: Everyone who does not continue doing everything written in the book of the law is cursed.

( Deuteronomy 11:26-28Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
A Blessing and a Curse
26 “Look, today I set before you a blessing and a curse: 27 there will be a blessing, if you obey the commands of the Lord your God I am giving you today, 28 and a curse, if you do not obey the commands of the Lord your God and you turn aside from the path I command you today by following other gods you have not known. )

We are not under penalty of LAW. WE are saved by GRACE.

Kefa

 

[Least]

Originally Posted by just-us-2

I found it confusing too so I set about studying and praying as I went. It took a few days but it was so very well worth it! A clear understanding of the old covenant and what is referred to as the new covenant but actual translation from original Aramaic texts show that the correct term is “renewed” covenant.

Experience has shown me over and over that what God says in His Word is true, and most professing Christians would agree with that simple statement. Likewise, it has also been proven that many professing Christians are exactly that – professing to be Christians, all the while having been misled somewhere along the way, into believing that their carnal minds are somehow compatible with the Word of God which is only spiritually discerned. It is not warm and fuzzy. It is many times not logical by our 21st century standards. It is however, the very Words of El ‘Elyon (The Most High God), every one of which we are to live by according to both Deuteronomy 8:3 - He humbled you and let you be hungry, and fed you with manna which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that He might make you understand that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by everything that proceeds out of the mouth of the LORD, and Matthew 4:4 - But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.' "

God likes to use covenants. They are important to Him and should be to us…but they aren’t.

There really is no such thing as “new” and “old” covenants, as we commonly hear in the Christian community - they are different levels of a progressive restoration process.

Then there is the scripture that uses the term “New Covenant” which those who prefer to disregard the Old Testament as being anything more than mere history like to point out. They claim this entirely nullifies the “Old Covenant” or the “Law” and they teach others to ignore what God requires of us, which is to keep the covenants which began with God and Adam. It is always a challenge to think about something we have some degree of familiarity with in a different aspect because we are used to thinking about it a certain way. We are creatures of habit, after all. However, to study for the purpose of learning the truth, this is what must be done.

Obviously, it is of the utmost importance to let scripture speak for itself and to always compare scripture with scripture, taking context into account. Another thing often forgotten is that there are words that have been added that were not in the original text when the KJV was written, and they are the italicized words. The KJV is not my favorite translation but it does clearly show these italicized words which makes it a beneficial version to use when studying alongside other versions or translations.

I found it fascinating and I will be happy to go on if you would like to read more.

Hebrew Roots Alert

I have bolded those things that are used as teaching points in Hebrew Roots circles.

You bolded all of the best information. I know a few who are involved in the Hebrew roots movement, but Just_us_two, isn't one of them.

She's more in the "study to show yourself approved, and seek and you shall find," movement.

Thanks for highlighting those important things.

 

[crossnote]

Hebrew Roots Alert

I have bolded those things that are used as teaching points in Hebrew Roots circles.

yes, except if a person let Scripture speak for itself they'd be heading in the opposite direction of the HRM.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You bolded all of the best information. I know a few who are involved in the Hebrew roots movement, but Just_us_two, isn't one of them.
She's more in the "study to show yourself approved, and seek and you shall find," movement.
Thanks for highlighting those important things.

Since you know about their beliefs, do you know if they are followers of the 119 ministries? And are you?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

It was not made for the righteous but for the unrighteous,so if you have not been led to Grace yet then you are unrighteous and you will find that you can't keep the old testament law perfectly which is all that GOD will accept.

Only the Grace of GOD can make you right with GOD.
Grace through Faith.

So if you feel like you need to do a little something to be worthy then all you are doing is polluting the finished work of CHRIST.

It's either Grace or law but not both.

 

[GrahamDennis]

So you only want to accept what Jesus said and not the rest of the Bible because the Bible was written way after Jesus's death? You do realize that those words of Jesus are found in that same Bible that was written after his death don't you?

shotgunner,that's not what he said at all,why don't you read the whole thread and see that he's just asking that Jesus said we should follow the law,that law being of the OT,the nt wasn't yet written! If Jesus said to follow the law then we should follow the law of the OT because that must be the law jesus was referring to

 

[just-me]

con·ten·tious

kənˈten(t)SHəs/
adjective
adjective: contentious

• causing or likely to cause an argument; controversial.
  "a contentious issue"
  
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]controversial, disputable, debatable, disputed, open to debate, vexed "a contentious issue"
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  • involving heated argument.
    "the socioeconomic plan had been the subject of contentious debate"
    
    [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
    [TD]heated, vehement, fierce, violent, intense, impassioned "a contentious debate"
    
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
  • (of a person) given to arguing or provoking argument.
    "a contentious amateur politician who has offended minority groups"
    
    

The OP is legit. It's the contentious posts that follow that I refer to.
As coals are to burning coals, and wood to fire; so is a contentious man to kindle strife.
Proverbs 26:21

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; Romans 2:8-9

But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
1 Corinthians 11:16

 

[crossnote]

The OP is legit. It's the contentious posts that follow that I refer to.
As coals are to burning coals, and wood to fire; so is a contentious man to kindle strife.
Proverbs 26:21

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; Romans 2:8-9

But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
1 Corinthians 11:16

Again,
Contentious = Not agreeing with you.

 

[GrahamDennis]

Greetings just-us-2,

If you follow this path by putting yourself under the works law, you will belong to the slave woman and her son who will not share in the inheritance with the free woman and her son of promise. You will also become what Paul described below:

"What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone." (Rom.9:30-32)

"It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression." (Rom.4:13-15)

"For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God." (Rom.10:4)

Friend, Jesus came and meet the righteous requirements of the law on our behalf, fulfilling what humanity could not do. If you put yourself under works as a requirement for salvation, you are in essence saying to Jesus, "your sacrifice was insufficient". If you attempt to keep the works of the law as a condition for salvation, it will have the opposite affect upon you keeping you out of eternal life. Father Abraham is our example. Scripture says, He believed God regarding his promise to give him a son and Abraham believed him and it was credited to him as righteousness, and that's it, no works, no baptism, no feeding and clothing the poor, etc., just faith alone.

When we have faith regarding God's Son whom he sent, by faith in him we have forgiveness of sins and eternal life because he kept the law perfectly and he paid the penalty for our sins with his blood, then we too are credited with righteousness as father Abraham was. Good works will come later from the indwelling of the Spirit and that for the glory of God and not to obtain or maintain salvation, which Christ already provided with his blood.

Anyone who has a list of requirements to be saved along side of Christ's sacrifice has been alienated from Christ and has wander away from grace. Grace and works are opposed to each other, for grace is unmerited favor, a gift, that is, unearned favor, where the works of the law are an attempt to earn your own way into the kingdom of God by your own efforts.

"Now to the one who works, his wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness." (Rom.4:4)

In the example above, the one who works represents the one who is trusting in the law and would receive his pay as an obligation. But for the one who does not work (does not put himself under the works of the law) but trusts in God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited to them as righteousness, which is God's way to eternal life.

"know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified."

My friendly advice to you, is to go back and closely read the letter to the Galatians and the letter to the Romans and pay attention to everything that Paul says regarding salvation by grace through faith vs. the works of the law.

Blessings in Christ!

if Jesus said to follow the law he must of been talking about the OT,the NT wasn't written yet! If future people,ie Paul actually says to follow the new or renewed covenant then I'm at odds with that because that's not what Jesus said

 

[Kefa54]

May I ask kindly where you see Jesus specifically tell us to follow the law. Where in the bible did you see this?

If anyone teaches you something. Ask for scripture to back it up. Do you have a bible?

I know it is taught upon many of us today that we don't need to follow the Old Laws, and that it was brought only for the Jews and not Christians.. But who claimed this? Many Christians still say that we Should follow the law..

Under what reason should i believe this?

When Jesus says specifically in the bible to follow the Old Laws...?



---

Where did that teaching to not follow it come from.
Please tell me your opinion on if we should follow it or not.

thank you.

 

[just-me]

I use those terms, just not on this site because it's confusing to some.
I'm not Hebrews Roots.
Good job at judging.
You do know that God is a Hebrew God? Has been and always will be.
Stop bashing on the language used.
If I start using German are you going to start saying "GERMAN ROOTS!!!"

Just because someone is stating something that doesn't agree with you interprutation, doesn't give you the right to judge on who they are, or their background.

Good post. Obviously you are a "TEXAS ROOTS MOVMENT" person. I'm the "GERMAN ROOTS" Dude. LOL

 

[just-us-2]

Greetings just-us-2,

If you follow this path by putting yourself under the works law, you will belong to the slave woman and her son who will not share in the inheritance with the free woman and her son of promise....Blessings in Christ!

Thank you for your concern for my eternal well-being. I do appreciate you trying to steer me in what you believe to be the right direction, and doing it with patience and politeness. On this one however, I must stand my ground. I tried to figure this one out for quite some time and every time I thought I was 'getting it' something would pop up a red flag that said, 'no, that doesn't match other scripture' and we all know scripture will never contradict itself. My God is way too great to make a mistake or have to come up with a "plan B" - honest, He is! So I prayed (a lot!) and studied and as He fed me with His wisdom, I wrote it down just so I wouldn't forget anything or remember something incorrectly. It was for me at the time. Since then He has impressed upon me the duty to share with others what He has taught me, so I will be happy to send it to you by email if you want.

Again, thank you for your concern and politeness.

 

[tanach]

The term Law used by Christians is inaccurate. The Hebrew name Torah which is translated as Law really means Teaching or instruction. Originally it was the term used just for the five books of Moses but later included the whole of the Old Testament.
Jesus fulfilled the whole of the Torah. He emphasised the spirit of the Torah rather than the letter. An example of this is his teaching on Adultery. In modern Judaism the idea has been extended to the teachings of the Rabbis in the Talmud and other
Jewish writings.

 

[just-us-2]

You bolded all of the best information. I know a few who are involved in the Hebrew roots movement, but Just_us_two, isn't one of them.

She's more in the "study to show yourself approved, and seek and you shall find," movement.

Thanks for highlighting those important things.

AMEN Sister! Those are important things!

 

[just-me]

May I ask kindly where you see Jesus specifically tell us to follow the law. Where in the bible did you see this?

If anyone teaches you something. Ask for scripture to back it up. Do you have a bible?

If you want to believe the truth of what Jesus taught, you'll have to believe something else too, such as what Jesus told the non-believing Pharisees.

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? John 5:46-47

 

[FreeNChrist]

The term Law used by Christians is inaccurate. The Hebrew name Torah which is translated as Law really means Teaching or instruction. Originally it was the term used just for the five books of Moses but later included the whole of the Old Testament.
Jesus fulfilled the whole of the Torah. He emphasised the spirit of the Torah rather than the letter. An example of this is his teaching on Adultery. In modern Judaism the idea has been extended to the teachings of the Rabbis in the Talmud and other
Jewish writings.

Does your Torah include any commandments?

 

[just-us-2]

Since you know about their beliefs, do you know if they are followers of the 119 ministries? And are you?

What is the 119 ministries?