Law was to lead us to Christ.
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P
Ya know to be quite honest with ya I have a hard time with these postings. You say the law was to led us to Christ but I find it hard to believe. Especially for the Jews. They did not believe in the suffering messiah so how did it led them to Christ? Most gentiles of today don't know about the law or the law in general.
What I do see the law doing is humbling a true seeker after God. We know that no one can keep the law save one...Jesus. but before Jesus whom would the Jews seek to ? Not that I disagree with Paul but I have trouble in this area.
If I were told the only way for me to enter heaven was a way I could not keep (which is true for all) but the suffering messiah I did not know was to come ...Ya follow what I'm trying to say here?
Imo Matt 5 the very beginning when Jesus is addressing the poor in spirit, the meek and so on he is addressing the hearts of the people that came to hear the word. Because the law had humbled the true seekers of God and they were found in dispair because they were honest with God and their selves because they couldn't keep the law.
What I do see the law doing is humbling a true seeker after God. We know that no one can keep the law save one...Jesus. but before Jesus whom would the Jews seek to ? Not that I disagree with Paul but I have trouble in this area.
If I were told the only way for me to enter heaven was a way I could not keep (which is true for all) but the suffering messiah I did not know was to come ...Ya follow what I'm trying to say here?
Imo Matt 5 the very beginning when Jesus is addressing the poor in spirit, the meek and so on he is addressing the hearts of the people that came to hear the word. Because the law had humbled the true seekers of God and they were found in dispair because they were honest with God and their selves because they couldn't keep the law.
Deut 30:15-16
15 'See, I have set before thee to-day life and good, and death and evil,
16 in that I am commanding thee to-day to love Jehovah thy God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commands, and His statutes, and His judgments; and thou hast lived and multiplied, and Jehovah thy God hath blessed thee in the land whither thou art going in to possess it.
YLT
In the passage above, IMO, verse 14 is incorrectly translated in every version I have seen, except Young's Literal translation!
Deu 30:14 should read: Deut 30:14
14 For very near unto thee is the word, in thy mouth, and in thy heart — to do it.
YLT
The sense here is that God wants us to desire to obey. NOTHING IS SAID ABOUT ABILITY OR PERMISSION.
The message of the passage cited is, in effect: If you listen and with all your heart and soul [will] love God and seek to please him ---(a task which is not hidden or mysterious; but in your mouth and heart to do ); I will bless you with life and health and material good fortune.
IN ANY CONTEXT!!!!
To convey the idea of 'that [thou (as determined by pronominal suffix)] may' This is the key idea behind your argument. It suggests that we are able to obey; BUT
To convey the idea of 'that [thou (as determined by pronominal suffix)] may' in Hebrew, one must use כִּֿ֥י plus the imperfect as in Gen 38:16. This usage signifies ability or permission as context determines
What I am saying is that no matter how many translations, no mater how highly regarded, translate the infinitive construct improperly; IT IS STILL WRONG!
If I say 2+2 =22 no mater how many people say it with me 2+2=4.
NO matter how many translations translate the infinitive construct as permissive or signifying ability; Hebrew Grammar will not change retroactively to accommodate them.
15 'See, I have set before thee to-day life and good, and death and evil,
16 in that I am commanding thee to-day to love Jehovah thy God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commands, and His statutes, and His judgments; and thou hast lived and multiplied, and Jehovah thy God hath blessed thee in the land whither thou art going in to possess it.
YLT
In the passage above, IMO, verse 14 is incorrectly translated in every version I have seen, except Young's Literal translation!
Deu 30:14 should read: Deut 30:14
14 For very near unto thee is the word, in thy mouth, and in thy heart — to do it.
YLT
The sense here is that God wants us to desire to obey. NOTHING IS SAID ABOUT ABILITY OR PERMISSION.
The message of the passage cited is, in effect: If you listen and with all your heart and soul [will] love God and seek to please him ---(a task which is not hidden or mysterious; but in your mouth and heart to do ); I will bless you with life and health and material good fortune.
IN ANY CONTEXT!!!!
To convey the idea of 'that [thou (as determined by pronominal suffix)] may' This is the key idea behind your argument. It suggests that we are able to obey; BUT
To convey the idea of 'that [thou (as determined by pronominal suffix)] may' in Hebrew, one must use כִּֿ֥י plus the imperfect as in Gen 38:16. This usage signifies ability or permission as context determines
What I am saying is that no matter how many translations, no mater how highly regarded, translate the infinitive construct improperly; IT IS STILL WRONG!
If I say 2+2 =22 no mater how many people say it with me 2+2=4.
NO matter how many translations translate the infinitive construct as permissive or signifying ability; Hebrew Grammar will not change retroactively to accommodate them.
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By the way just for clarity on my view. I believe that Passage is saying that God himself would cause them to keep it, if they would only have faith in His promise to change their hearts.
But we all know that is not what they did, rather they tried to obey in their own strength. But if they simply had faith in Gods promise they would have obeyed by divine empowerment.
But we all know that is not what they did, rather they tried to obey in their own strength. But if they simply had faith in Gods promise they would have obeyed by divine empowerment.
Peter himself said in Acts 15 that the law of Moses was a yoke that neither they nor their fathers were able to bear, and that those who were trying to bring the gentiles under bondage to that law were tempting GOD.
So now why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus in the same way those also are.” Acts 15:10-11
Now Peter was the head of the church, and bore witness that neither he nor anyone else were able to keep the law, even those like himself who had received the spirit. Yet here you are proclaiming the very thing that he said tempted GOD.
So now why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus in the same way those also are.” Acts 15:10-11
Now Peter was the head of the church, and bore witness that neither he nor anyone else were able to keep the law, even those like himself who had received the spirit. Yet here you are proclaiming the very thing that he said tempted GOD.
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:rofl: I'm just one of those gentiles 
:think: Thus anyone here say the same thing :hmm:
Though we are composed of different individuals
Even with different beliefs
We us has one main goal . ...
Hebrews: 12. 23. And to the church of the firstborn, who are written in the heavens, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the just made perfect,
24. And to Jesus the mediator of the new testament, and to the sprinkling of blood which speaketh better than that of Abel.
25. See that you refuse him not that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spoke upon the earth, much more shall not we, that turn away from him that speaketh to us from heaven.
26. Whose voice then moved the earth; but now he promiseth, saying: Yet once more, and I will move not only the earth, but heaven also.
27. And in that he saith, Yet once more, he signifieth the translation of the moveable things as made, that those things may remain which are immoveable.
28. Therefore receiving an immoveable kingdom, we have grace; whereby let us serve, pleasing God, with fear and reverence.
Revelation: 1. 4. John to the seven churches which are in Asia. Grace be unto you and peace from him that is, and that was, and that is to come, and from the seven spirits which are before his throne,
5. And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth, who hath loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
:think: Thus anyone here say the same thing :hmm:
Though we are composed of different individuals
Even with different beliefs
We us has one main goal . ...
Hebrews: 12. 23. And to the church of the firstborn, who are written in the heavens, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the just made perfect,
24. And to Jesus the mediator of the new testament, and to the sprinkling of blood which speaketh better than that of Abel.
25. See that you refuse him not that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spoke upon the earth, much more shall not we, that turn away from him that speaketh to us from heaven.
26. Whose voice then moved the earth; but now he promiseth, saying: Yet once more, and I will move not only the earth, but heaven also.
27. And in that he saith, Yet once more, he signifieth the translation of the moveable things as made, that those things may remain which are immoveable.
28. Therefore receiving an immoveable kingdom, we have grace; whereby let us serve, pleasing God, with fear and reverence.
Revelation: 1. 4. John to the seven churches which are in Asia. Grace be unto you and peace from him that is, and that was, and that is to come, and from the seven spirits which are before his throne,
5. And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth, who hath loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
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As we've said before Though we are composed of different individuals
Even with different beliefs
We us has one main goal . ...
Hebrews: 12. 23. And to the church of the firstborn, who are written in the heavens, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the just made perfect,
24. And to Jesus the mediator of the new testament, and to the sprinkling of blood which speaketh better than that of Abel.
25. See that you refuse him not that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spoke upon the earth, much more shall not we, that turn away from him that speaketh to us from heaven.
26. Whose voice then moved the earth; but now he promiseth, saying: Yet once more, and I will move not only the earth, but heaven also.
27. And in that he saith, Yet once more, he signifieth the translation of the moveable things as made, that those things may remain which are immoveable.
28. Therefore receiving an immoveable kingdom, we have grace; whereby let us serve, pleasing God, with fear and reverence.
Revelation: 1. 4. John to the seven churches which are in Asia. Grace be unto you and peace from him that is, and that was, and that is to come, and from the seven spirits which are before his throne,
5. And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth, who hath loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Galatians: 4. 29. But as then he, that was born according to the flesh, persecuted him that was after the spirit; so also it is now.
:rofl: That is we us being a gentiles :sisid:
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John: 4. 23. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true adorers shall adore the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeketh such to adore him.
24. God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth.
John: 16. 13. But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall shew you.
:smoke: Are we speaking about the law written in the holy scripture :happy:
Of course we are
for someone
Matthew: 13. 21. Yet hath he not root in himself, but is only for a time: and when there ariseth tribulation and persecution because of the word, he is presently scandalized.
22. And he that received the seed among thorns, is he that heareth the word, and the care of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choketh up the word, and he becometh fruitless.
23. But he that received the seed upon good ground, is he that heareth the word, and understandeth, and beareth fruit, and yieldeth the one an hundredfold, and another sixty, and another thirty.
:scarf: If someone who cannot win the word by the " word of truth "
:yawn: Takenote ( who is the word ) ( And who speak the word of truth )
This is all we can say
from now my brethren :smoke: and my fellow :happy:
And to all the brothers and sisters
Believers and non belelievers
Godbless us all
24. God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth.
John: 16. 13. But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall shew you.
:smoke: Are we speaking about the law written in the holy scripture :happy:
Of course we are
for someone
Matthew: 13. 21. Yet hath he not root in himself, but is only for a time: and when there ariseth tribulation and persecution because of the word, he is presently scandalized.
22. And he that received the seed among thorns, is he that heareth the word, and the care of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choketh up the word, and he becometh fruitless.
23. But he that received the seed upon good ground, is he that heareth the word, and understandeth, and beareth fruit, and yieldeth the one an hundredfold, and another sixty, and another thirty.
:scarf: If someone who cannot win the word by the " word of truth "
:yawn: Takenote ( who is the word ) ( And who speak the word of truth )
This is all we can say
from now my brethren :smoke: and my fellow :happy:
And to all the brothers and sisters
Believers and non belelievers
Godbless us all
E
It did, few of them. In fact hundereds of them came to Christ via the law (seeing the redemptive act of Christ) The rest of them did not take the law for the reason it was given, but twisted and distorted it to something it was never intended for (to make them righteous)
If you think you are righteus people. you do not need a savior. The jews thught they were rightious by the law. thus they wanted a person to free them from Rome, not from their sin (as Jesus said, the righteous (or more aptly, those who think they are righteous) do not need a physician, they think they are already well.
see romans 1. They not only know Gods righteous standard, They know those who do not live up to it are worthy of punishment, but they hide it in their heart.
A person led to seek Christ is then free to use what Paul used, the law and prophets to help prove, jesus was the son of man, come to redeem a people (the world) to himself. That is where the law becomes applicable to gentiles.
For the Jew, they already know it. Or should. it is how do they interpret it.
Yes I do. which is where the law can come in, and show you what Gods way was. And starting at gen 3: 15 and all through out the OT you can see Gods glorious plan. When it is opened to you. WOW, it is amazing,,
ever wonder why paul could go from being a strict pharisee, to a humble chold of God. He had his eyes opepend to the glorious truth of God in the OT. Where the others as jesus said, had it hidden to them in unbelief.
which is where we all need to be, Jew or gentile..
If you think you are righteus people. you do not need a savior. The jews thught they were rightious by the law. thus they wanted a person to free them from Rome, not from their sin (as Jesus said, the righteous (or more aptly, those who think they are righteous) do not need a physician, they think they are already well.
see romans 1. They not only know Gods righteous standard, They know those who do not live up to it are worthy of punishment, but they hide it in their heart.
A person led to seek Christ is then free to use what Paul used, the law and prophets to help prove, jesus was the son of man, come to redeem a people (the world) to himself. That is where the law becomes applicable to gentiles.
For the Jew, they already know it. Or should. it is how do they interpret it.
Yes I do. which is where the law can come in, and show you what Gods way was. And starting at gen 3: 15 and all through out the OT you can see Gods glorious plan. When it is opened to you. WOW, it is amazing,,
ever wonder why paul could go from being a strict pharisee, to a humble chold of God. He had his eyes opepend to the glorious truth of God in the OT. Where the others as jesus said, had it hidden to them in unbelief.
which is where we all need to be, Jew or gentile..
S
Yes, but there was always a remedy for sin, the sacrifice. That honesty of knowing you couldn't keep the law would always lead you to faith in the sacrifice for sin. That's how the law would lead to Christ. It was then only necessary to show by the law and the prophets that Jesus was the perfect sacrifice spoken of.
That is difference between the understanding of humans that is trying to push
Unto the understanding of GOD . . .....
Job: 5. 8. I would seek unto God, and unto God would I commit my cause:
9. Which doeth great things and unsearchable; marvellous things without number:
10. Who giveth rain upon the earth, and sendeth waters upon the fields:
11. To set up on high those that be low; that those which mourn may be exalted to safety.
12. He disappointeth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise.
13. He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.
*for
Job: 36. 26. Behold, God is great, and we know him not, neither can the number of his years be searched out.
According to the word of god
Proverbs: 8. 8. All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.
9. They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.
Psalm: 71. 15. My mouth shall shew forth thy righteousness and thy salvation all the day; for I know not the numbers thereof.
:smoke: As they say :happy:
We cannot out numbered the word of god
:ty:
Unto the understanding of GOD . . .....
Job: 5. 8. I would seek unto God, and unto God would I commit my cause:
9. Which doeth great things and unsearchable; marvellous things without number:
10. Who giveth rain upon the earth, and sendeth waters upon the fields:
11. To set up on high those that be low; that those which mourn may be exalted to safety.
12. He disappointeth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise.
13. He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.
*for
Job: 36. 26. Behold, God is great, and we know him not, neither can the number of his years be searched out.
According to the word of god
Proverbs: 8. 8. All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.
9. They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.
Psalm: 71. 15. My mouth shall shew forth thy righteousness and thy salvation all the day; for I know not the numbers thereof.
:smoke: As they say :happy:
We cannot out numbered the word of god :ty:
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B
You are corret. God was setting Israel up as an example to all the nations.
And also if you pay attention closely to the story of the Exodus and afterwards you'll notice that not only Hebrews were a part of the Exodus. It was a mixed multitude, which would only mean that there were gentiles amongst the Hebrews, and as a whole mixed multitude became the nation of Israel.
There was also a conversion process of how to become a part of Israel if a foreigner (gentile) wanted to become a part of the nation of Israel.
So God giving the law was for Israel as a nation, but it did not exlude foreigners.