Is the Devil bound right now...?

[valiant]

To Bowman,

First of all, the above does not match Rev.20:1-2, which says that Satan is bound in the Abyss for a thousand years. This is just circumvention of scripture. Very sloppy, misapplied, exegesis! There is nothing in that verse that describes Satan being bound in the Abyss. In the verse above Jesus broke the devil's power over death by fulfilling the law, which was ammunition for Satan and the powers of darkness against us and by paying the penalty for sins, so that believers no longer had to fear death and that because Christ tasted death for us. Breaking the power of death has nothing at all to do with Satan being bound in the Abyss for a thousand years. But then again, we have to remember that Bowman and Cassian and other's who are amil, are people who haphazardly apply meanings to scripture any way they seem fit in order to support there false teachings, while at the same time trying discredit those who teach the real truth. People who will, instead of taking scripture at face value, will do something so ignorant as to take the formula of Psalms 50:10 and apply it to Rev.20:1-2. Just unbelievable!

you are revealing yourself to be just a joke!!

 

[DP]

continued...

Proof #9: Kept from the hour of testing (Rev. 3:10)
Revelation 3:10 says we will be kept out of the hour of testing which will come upon the whole earth (the Tribulation). Some have wrongly believed "keep" means to be kept through, or to be protected through the Tribulation. But the words in the text are Tereo "to guard" and Ek "out of", properly, to "guard out of". He will keep us "out of" the hour of testing. It is not just the testing, but the time period. The Church will be called home before that hour of testing.

Rev.3:7-12 about the Church of Philadelphia is about His very elect, which is why He had no problems with that Church.

Those are of the same... type of His servants that He spoke about for the end in Matt.24:23-26 when warning about the coming pseudo-Christ, that that false one would works great signs and wonders so powerful that it would deceive even His own very elect if it were possible. So how is it that He showed His elect still on earth when the Antichrist shows up to exalt himself in place of God???

Rev 3:10-11
10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
KJV


I have already established that our Lord Jesus comes "as a thief" on "the day of the Lord" timing, as per Apostles Paul and Peter. That is the timing those are to keep what they have in waiting for Jesus. Those keep His Word, and thus they are sealed, no one can open, nor shut from them.

Greek tereo (Strong's 5083) from teros is the word for "will keep". And yes it also has the meanings of 'to guard' and 'to watch' per the Greek. So if that's all you've got to support your pre-trib rapture theory from that verse, then that is very, very weak.

Also per Rev.11 along with mention of God's two witnesses, "two candlesticks" are mentioned along with them. And that's on the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe timing which points to the time of tribulation. According to the last verse of Rev.1, the 'seven candlesticks' are the 'seven churches'. So what are those "two candlesticks" doing there in that time of Rev.11, which represent two Churches? Simple. There are ONLY 2 Churches our Lord Jesus saw no problems with, Smyrna and Philadelphia. They represent His elect that will not... be deceived by the coming pseudo-Christ.

Thus your point #9 is disproved.

Proof #10: Angels don't resurrect people when they gather them for judgment.
When the angels are sent forth to gather the elect at the second coming (Matt. 24:29-31), some have wrongly interpreted this as the catching away. There is one huge problem with this interpretation. If we are resurrected at this time, why would we need angels to gather us? In the resurrection, Jesus said that we will be like the angels, in our glorified bodies (Matt. 22:30), able to travel in the air at will. Obviously, these people who are gathered are not resurrected, therefore it can't be referring to the catching away. No one would claim the wicked are caught up at this time, yet Matthew 13:39-41, 49 says the angels will not only gather the elect, but also the wicked. This gathering is not a resurrection, but is reference to those in their mortal bodies who will have made it though to the end that seven years, they being the wheat and the tares.

Firstly, the Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 gathering examples perfectly align with what Paul taught in 1 Thess.4 about Jesus' second coming and gathering of two separate groups of saints, one group from Heaven, and the other group from the earth. Therefore your wording there against that Matt.24 and Mark 13 Scripture is all for naught.

Nor do you show understanding of the actual "caught up" event of 1 Thess.4. The Greek word for "caught up" is harpazo, which means to be 'siezed'. We will not fly off to Heaven of our own will!!! We will be 'gathered', siezed to Christ, at the twinkling of an eye. Surely you realize that event will not be by our own power. I don't know who put that move-about-freely idea into your head, but you're using it just as an excuse to not heed the Scriptures about that event.

And your theory that the gathering in Matt.24 and Mark 13 is about a gathering of the wicked is way... off base! Those mentioned being gathered in those Scriptures are called "His elect", didn't you notice? how could you misunderstand that? (Matt.24:31; Mark 13:27).

Thus your point #10 is disproved.

Proof #11: Both the wicked and the righteous can't be taken first.
First Thessalonians 4:13-17 says the righteous are taken and the wicked are left behind. Matthew 13:30, 49 says the wicked are taken first and righteous are left behind. This points to two separate events, the resurrection and the second coming.

That 1 Thess.4 Scripture does NOT... say that at all that "the wicked are left behind". That is your... addition to that Scripture you got from your Pre-trib Rapture theory preachers. The wicked are not even the subject in that 1 Thess.4:13-18 section of Scripture!!

Likewise you misuse that "left behind" moniker from men in the Matt.13 Scripture when it is not there either.

Since you are so deceived, and can't grasp Scripture as written, I guess I write the rest of this for brethren that are given by The LORD to understand.

In Matt.13:50, Jesus gives us an expression involving where the "tares" are cast to at that event of His 2nd coming on the last day of this world, with the wailing and gnashing of teeth. Where else did He give that expression, and to whom? Look here...

Matt 8:11-12
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV


Matt 22:12-13
12 And he saith unto him, "Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment?" And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, "Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
KJV


Matt 24:48-51
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, "My lord delayeth his coming";
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV


Matt 25:29-30
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV


If you want to know what and where that "outer darkness" will be during Christ's future "thousand years" reign, look at the Rev.22:14-15 verses. It is a place outside the gates of the holy city, which is where the wicked will be cast out to. It does not mean those are cast into the "lake of fire" just yet. It happens on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming when He will separate His sheep from those goats.

Thus your point #11 is disproved.

Proof #12: Jesus returns from the wedding.
When Jesus returns to earth at the second coming, He will return from a wedding (Luke 12:36). At the resurrection, Jesus, the Bridegroom is married to His bride, the Church. After the wedding, He will return to earth and we with him.

Here we go with all that Jewish wedding/bridegroom stuff. That is NOT... a blueprint for how our Lord Jesus returns at His second coming and gathers His Church. The marriage supper of The Lamb is when The LORD said it would be, according to this...

Rev 19:7-9
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, "Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."
KJV

Notice there that "fine linen" is the "righteousness of the saints". It's about the New Jerusalem, that is the Bride...

Rev 21:2
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
KJV


In the verses of the Rev.19 chapter, it is about Jesus' 2nd coming to end this present world and battle against Satan's host on earth. That's is what that "supper of the great God" is about, i.e., "the day of vengeance; and to comfort all those mourn" timing from Isaiah 61:2, the phrase our Lord Jesus did not read in Luke 4 at His 1st coming. That is a "day of the Lord" event, the end of the 1260 days timing, Jesus back on earth with His saints that will reign with Him.

Thus your point #13 is disproved.

Proof #13: Jesus will receive us to Himself, not us to receive Him (John 14:2-3).
Jesus said He would prepare a place for the Church in heaven, then He would come again to receive us to Himself. Why would Jesus prepare a place for us in heaven and then not take us there? At the resurrection and catching away, He will come to receive us to Himself, "that where I am (heaven), there you may be also." If the catching away occurred at the same time as the second coming, we would go up to the clouds and then immediately come back to earth. That would contradict John 14:2-3.

The reference to "mansions" in John 14 is about the priest's abodes per the Book of Ezekiel, for the last 9 chapters are about the time of Christ's Millennial reign forward. That's what the Greek word "mansions" means, i.e., abodes. In that future time per Ezekiel, that temple that will be built for the time of Christ's future "thousand years" reign will be called "God's House" per Ezekiel. In Ezek.47, God's River and His House is shown at a specific location... ON THE EARTH. That's the place Jesus said He prepares for His elect priests that will reign with Him.

But because the majority on the Pre-trib Rapture theory don't take time to discover what's written in Scripture like Ezekiel about the future Millennium, they tend to go off on tangents and wrongly assign things like John 14 as taking place somewhere else, or about something else, or outside the timing the OT Scripture prophecies for fuiture that were first written about them.

Thus your point #13 is disproved.

Proof #14: The one who restrains is taken out of the way.
In 2 Thess. 2:6-7, Paul says "the one who restrains will be taken out of the way" before the Antichrist can be revealed. We believe this refers to the catching away because the Church indwelt by the Holy Spirit, is clearly the biggest obstacle to the Antichrist becoming a world ruler.

Easy. It has nothing... to do with a rapture. Nor is the restrainer The Holy Spirit either.

In Daniel 10, he was shown a heavenly vision of angels representing powers on earth, and using titles of powers on earth. Within that chapter the one who retrains the Prince of Persia (i.e., Satan) is the Archangel Michael.

Dan 10:13
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
KJV


Dan 10:21
21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
KJV


Thus the restrainer of 2 Thess.2 is the Archangel Michael. He is holding the coming Antichrist back until it is his time to be revealed. Simple as that.

Thus your point #14 is disproved.

Proof #15: The separation of the sheep and goats (Matt. 25:31-46)
If the resurrection and catching away occurred at the second coming, why would the sheep and the goats need to be separated immediately after the second coming? A catching away at the second coming would have already separated the sheep and the goats. With a Pre-Tribulation resurrection and catching away, the people saved after the church has been removed will need to be separated after the second coming. Also, notice that in Rev.20:4, only a resurrection is mentioned, but there is no mention of living believers being changed and caught up.

That's called 'begging the question', a fallacy where the arguer includes the conclusion to be proven within the premise of the argument. The actual matter above, is that the premise is faulty to begin with, because the resurrection is what the "caught up" event of 1 Thess.4 is about, as Apostle Paul also covered it in 1 Cor.15 about that same event.

Thus your circular argument of point #15 is disproved.

Proof #16: Who will populate the Millennium? If the catching away occurs at the second coming and the wicked are cast into hades at that time, who will be left to populate the millennium? Only people in their natural (non-resurrected) bodies will be able to have children (Matt. 22:30). With a Pre-Tribulation catching away, the people saved after that who are alive at the second coming will populate the earth during the Millennium.

Fallacy again, because you're suggesting that Christ's 2nd coming does not involve His literal return to this earth, to Jerusalem, as the Zech.14 Scripture is written, as also in Acts 1.

So your argument falls flat from the start.

Your point #16 is disproved.

 

[ukok102nak]

The angel of rev 20.1 is the 'he who restrains' of 2 Thess 2. He is acting as God's instrument.

indeed one with the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
And the others are In flaming fire the mighty angels with our lord Christ Jesus

For everyone of us were used as an instrument of god but its up to us
If we acknowledged it or taken it by granted . ...

2 Thessalonians: 2. 10. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12. That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

:hmm: Although the great tribulation is also mention there
Question: is it facts that
The mighty angels from this verses
shall restrain the devil for by this it would bound him a thousand years
Before or after the great tribulation?
:read:
2 Thessalonians: 1. 7. And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8. In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9. Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

:smoke: We hope :happy:
2 Thessalonians: 1. 11. Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

:news: We've heard something before that this angel moronic is the one who will
Bound the devil is it true or false :think:

Hope that taranta (d0) should know about this asap :rofl:

Hebrews: 1. 5. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10. And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11. They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12. And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
13. But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

:ty:

 

[popeye]

I am not amil. I believe in a pre-mil, post-tribulational return of our Lord Jesus, as the Scripture is written in Matt.24:29-31.

Yes Jesus returns postrib with his saints (previously raptured pretrib) as the word declares in rev 19.

 

[popeye]

LO the self-proclaimed prophet is now the expert on his master Satan

what an evil thing to say about a member of the body of Christ.

Proof Satan is not bound

 

[DP]

Yes Jesus returns postrib with his saints (previously raptured pretrib) as the word declares in rev 19.

Scripture never shows a rapture of the saints prior to the "day of the Lord" events. And you did not read any pre-trib rapture idea in what I wrote. There is only ONE time of Jesus' 2nd coming to gather His Church which is after the tribulation like He said in Matt.24:29-31. That means... the Rev.19 Scripture is all happening on the SAME day of His 2nd coming.

 

[VCO]

you are revealing yourself to be just a joke!!

No, you are looking in a mirror.

19:21 The rest of the rebels are killed with the sword of the Lord, their bodies providing ample carrion for the vultures. The sword is an allusion to the word of God (see Eph. 6:17; 2 Thess. 2:8; Heb. 4:12; Rev. 1:16; 2:12, 16).This brings us to the end of the Great Tribulation.
20:1 Before the Millennium begins, Satan must be restrained. To accomplish this, an angel comes down from heaven with the key to the abyss and a huge chain in his hand.
In one sense, our Lord bound Satan when He came to earth (Matt. 12:29). So this is another stage in His binding.
20:2 The angel seized Satan and bound him for a thousand years. John lists four names of the tempter: dragon, serpent, Devil (accuser), and Satan (adversary).
20:3 During the Millennium, the archenemy is confined to the bottomless pit. The abyss is sealed so that he cannot go forth to deceive the nations. Toward the end of Christ's Reign, he will be released for his last brief rebellion (vv. 7-10).

Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.
Edited By: Arthur Farstad
By: William MacDonald
Published by: THOMAS NELSON

A third form of interpretation is premillennialism, so named because it interprets Revelation 20 as referring to a literal thousand-year reign of Christ following His second coming. As the Second Coming occurs before the Millennium, it is therefore premillennial. Twentieth-century advocates of this position include Lewis Sperry Chafer, Charles L. Feinberg, A.C. Gaebelein, H.A. Ironside, Alva McClain, William Pettingill, Charles C. Ryrie, C.I. Scofield, Wilbur Smith, and Merrill F. Unger. Other premillenarians can be found from the first century on, including Papias, Justin Martyr, and many other early church fathers. Arguments for this position are based on the natural sequence of events in chapter 20 following chapter 19, viewing them as sequential and as stemming from the second coming of Christ. Many passages speak of the second coming of Christ being followed by a reign of righteousness on earth (Pss. 2; 24; 72; 96; Isa. 2; 9:6-7; 11-12; 63:1-6; 65-66; Jer. 23:5-6; 30:8-11; Dan. 2:44; 7:13-14; Hosea 3:4-5; Amos 9:11-15; Micah 4:1-8; Zeph. 3:14-20; Zech. 8:1-8; 14:1-9; Matt. 19:28; 25:31-46; Acts 15:16-18; Rom. 11:25-27; Jude 14-15; Rev. 2:25-28; 19:11-20:6).

The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

1. The Binding Of Satan (20:1-3)

20:1-3. Chapter 20 begins with the familiar phrase, And I saw an angel (cf. 7:2; 8:2; 10:1; 14:6; 18:1; 19:17). The "and" with which this chapter begins suggests that it continues the sequence of events begun in 19:1, which is introduced with the words "after this." In chapter 19 the Greek has "and" at the beginnings of 15 verses (but it is omitted in the niv in vv. 4, 8, 10-11, 13-16, and 21 and is trans. "then" in vv. 5-6, 9, and 19 and "but" in v. 20). The use of the word "and" (kai) often indicates action that follows in logical and/or chronological sequence. Accordingly there is no reason why chapter 20 should not be considered as describing events which follow chapter 19. "And" (kai) continues throughout chapter 20, beginning each verse except verse 5. There is thus no linguistic or grammatical suggestion that these events are anything other than events following the second coming of Christ and occurring in sequence.
In addition to the grammar which connects these incidents, there is also the causal connection of the events which follow naturally from the fact that Christ will have returned to the earth. In chapter 19 these events include casting the beast and the false prophet into the lake of burning sulfur and destroying their armies. Having disposed of the world ruler and the false prophet as well as the armies, it would be only natural that Christ should then turn to Satan himself, as He does in chapter 20.
Accordingly John saw an angel descend from heaven holding the key to the Abyss and a great chain. The angel grabbed Satan, the dragon (cf. 12:3-4, 7, 9, 13, 16-17; 13:2, 4, 11; 16:13), that ancient serpent (12:9, 14-15), bound him, and threw him into the Abyss, and locked it, in order to prevent Satan's work of deceiving the nations any more for a thousand years.
An important interpretive question is whether Satan was bound at the first coming of Christ, as is commonly advanced by amillenarians, or will be bound at His second coming, as is held by premillenarians. Revelation 20:1-3 rather clearly contradicts the amillennial interpretation that Satan was bound at the first coming of Christ. Throughout the Scriptures Satan is said to exert great power not only against the world but also against Christians (Acts 5:3; 1 Cor. 5:5; 7:5; 2 Cor. 2:11; 11:14; 12:7; 1 Tim. 1:20). If there is still any question whether this is so, it should be settled by the exhortation of 1 Peter 5:8: "Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour."

The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

20:1-22:21 Chapter 19 ends with the battle of Armageddon and Christ’s Second Coming—events that mark the close of the Tribulation. The events of chapter 20—the binding of Satan, Christ’s 1,000-year earthly kingdom, Satan’s final rebellion, and the Great White Throne judgment—fit chronologically between the close of the Tribulation and the creation of the new heaven and the new earth described in chapters 21 and 22.D. The Millennium (20:1-10)

20:1 bottomless pit. The place where demons are incarcerated pending their final sentencing to the lake of fire (see notes on 9:1; 2 Pet. 2:4).
20:2 laid hold. This includes not only Satan, but the demons as well. Their imprisonment will dramatically alter the world during the kingdom, since their destructive influence in all areas of human thought and life will be removed. dragon. Likening Satan to a dragon emphasizes his ferocity and cruelty (see note on 12:3). serpent of old. A reference to Satan’s first appearance in the Garden of Eden (Gen. 3:1ff.), where he deceived Eve (cf. 2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Tim. 2:14). Devil... Satan. See note on 12:9. a thousand years. This is the first of six references to the length of the millennial kingdom (cf. vv. 3, 4, 5, 6, 7). There are three main views of the duration and nature of this period: (1) Premillennialism sees this as a literal 1,000-year period during which Jesus Christ, in fulfillment of numerous OT prophecies (e.g., 2 Sam. 7:12-16; Ps. 2; Isa. 11:6-12; 24:23; Hos. 3:4, 5; Joel 3:9-21; Amos 9:8-15; Mic. 4:1-8; Zeph. 3:14-20; Zech. 14:1-11; Matt. 24:29-31, 36-44), reigns on the earth. Using the same general principles of interpretation for both prophetic and nonprophetic passages leads most naturally to premillennialism. Another strong argument supporting this view is that so many biblical prophecies have already been literally fulfilled, suggesting that future prophecies will likewise be fulfilled literally.

The MacArthur Bible Commentary. By Dr. John MacArthur Jr.

 

[popeye]

Scripture never shows a rapture of the saints prior to the "day of the Lord" events. And you did not read any pre-trib rapture idea in what I wrote. There is only ONE time of Jesus' 2nd coming to gather His Church which is after the tribulation like He said in Matt.24:29-31. That means... the Rev.19 Scripture is all happening on the SAME day of His 2nd coming.

As it was in the days of Lot and Noah.
That is what Jesus said.

According to your pattern of postrib rapture God waited till after the destruction of the city and till after the flood AND THEN DELIVERED THEM BOTH.

No such thing as a postrib rapture....purely made up by men omitting verses.
Find some teaching by a postrib on mat 25,the 10 virgins,if it is even possible,and try not to laugh as they destroy the meaning of the text.

 

[Bowman]

The Devil is bound, right now...
Can you post the said verse in the scripture please
because if the said verse do not match up the verse
that is
written in the apocalips we mean in
The revealation then
the event that takes place in the revealation
are not meant to happen yet

and we just recall here that even
the word of our Lord Jesus Christ telling us this
Matthew: 24. 21. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

which was stated in the

Revelation: 7. 14. And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

it is written as we can see and read
Although the
Question
that it is impossible to answer even from this very moment
in every mind of human aspects
where and when the great tribulation happeneds

As we can see my brother
the revelation is written step by step
in accordance to what will happen
Now or in the near future?
Or shall we say in the past? :rofl: because
Our lord Christ Jesus happeneds
To be crusified in the past :scarf:

:smoke: We hope everybody here got it right :happy:
:now: or
:chair: we are happened to be in the wrong grammar :blush:



:smoke: Thank you very much :happy:

So...

The context of both passages has to do with God's Elect emerging from 'affliction'.

No time scale has been applied to either....other than this being part of The First Resurrection.

 

[Bowman]

To Bowman,

First of all, the above does not match Rev.20:1-2, which says that Satan is bound in the Abyss for a thousand years. This is just circumvention of scripture. Very sloppy, misapplied, exegesis! There is nothing in that verse that describes Satan being bound in the Abyss. In the verse above Jesus broke the devil's power over death by fulfilling the law, which was ammunition for Satan and the powers of darkness against us and by paying the penalty for sins, so that believers no longer had to fear death and that because Christ tasted death for us. Breaking the power of death has nothing at all to do with Satan being bound in the Abyss for a thousand years. But then again, we have to remember that Bowman and Cassian and other's who are amil, are people who haphazardly apply meanings to scripture any way they seem fit in order to support there false teachings, while at the same time trying discredit those who teach the real truth. People who will, instead of taking scripture at face value, will do something so ignorant as to take the formula of Psalms 50:10 and apply it to Rev.20:1-2. Just unbelievable!

Observe…


Jesus’ death Binds Satan…


Heb 2.14 - 15


Since, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, in like manner He Himself also shared the same things, that through death He might render entirely idle the one having the power of death, that is, the devil; and might set these free, asmany as by fear of deathwere subject to slavery through all the lifetime to live.






Jesus’ death casts-out Satan…


John 12.31 - 33


Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world shall be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself. But He said this, signifying by what kind of death He was about to die.






Jesus’ death both binds & casts-out Satan…


Rev 20.1 - 5


And I saw a Messenger coming down out of Heaven, having the key of the abyss, and a great chain on his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the old serpent who is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, and threw him into the abyss, and shut him up, and sealed over him, that he should not still lead astray the nations, until the thousand years are fulfilled. And after these things, he must be set loose a little time. And I saw thrones, and they sat on them. And judgment was given to them, and the souls of the ones having been beheaded because of the witness of Jesus, and because of the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor its image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

 

[Cassian]

Observe…


Jesus’ death Binds Satan…


Heb 2.14 - 15


Since, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, in like manner He Himself also shared the same things, that through death He might render entirely idle the one having the power of death, that is, the devil; and might set these free, asmany as by fear of deathwere subject to slavery through all the lifetime to live.






Jesus’ death casts-out Satan…


John 12.31 - 33


Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world shall be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself. But He said this, signifying by what kind of death He was about to die.






Jesus’ death both binds & casts-out Satan…


Rev 20.1 - 5


And I saw a Messenger coming down out of Heaven, having the key of the abyss, and a great chain on his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the old serpent who is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, and threw him into the abyss, and shut him up, and sealed over him, that he should not still lead astray the nations, until the thousand years are fulfilled. And after these things, he must be set loose a little time. And I saw thrones, and they sat on them. And judgment was given to them, and the souls of the ones having been beheaded because of the witness of Jesus, and because of the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor its image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

It seems there are quite a few people who would rather believe in fairy tales than scripture. The binding of Satan has nothing to do with any kind of premillennial view. I think it was you that stated sarcastically as to what kind of literal key was used. To take one word, thousand, and make it literal in a book that is absolutely built on symbolism is the height of folly. I read some of Impe's explanations of Revelation and it is hilarious of what he thinks it all means for the future.
Typical of a man lost in his own ego desperately trying to make a name for himself, only to look like a fool.

 

[DP]

As it was in the days of Lot and Noah.
That is what Jesus said.

According to your pattern of postrib rapture God waited till after the destruction of the city and till after the flood AND THEN DELIVERED THEM BOTH.

No such thing as a postrib rapture....purely made up by men omitting verses.
Find some teaching by a postrib on mat 25,the 10 virgins,if it is even possible,and try not to laugh as they destroy the meaning of the text.

Those are very misleading statements, because Noah and his were never removed from the waters upon the earth, and in the Rev.12 Scripture about the waters that come out of the serpents mouth against God's people on earth is the endtime blueprint for that.

And you forgot to mention how God protected the children of Israel while they were in Egypt, while outside their houses God's anger was done upon the unbelievers in Egypt.

Isa 33:14-16
14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
KJV

Isa 43:1-3
43:1 But now thus saith the LORD That created thee, O Jacob, and He That formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art Mine.
2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.
3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
KJV



We also have the example in Dan.3 of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego cast into the hot fiery furnace heated seven times hotter than necessary, with a fourth Man with the likeness of The Son of God in that furnace with them. When they came out their clothes didn't even smell of smoke. But when the servants of the king of Babylon got just near that furnace, they were immediately consumed.

And then there's the example in 2 Kings 1 with Elijah asking fire to come down from Heaven upon the band of fifty the sinful king of Israel sent to fetch him. Fire came down from Heaven right in Elijah's presence and burned the fifty up, and it didn't touch Elijah. Another fifty was sent, same thing happened again. But the third time with another fifty, the captain humbled himself before Elijah.

And then there's the somewhat humorous example of 1 Kings 18 where a little test with the prophets of Baal was done to see who The GOD really is. Elijah prayed for fire to come down from Heaven and burn the sacrifice upon the altar which had be soaked in water, and it also burned up the wood that was also soaked in water.

Our Heavenly Father's consuming fire is very... accurate, for He is "a consuming fire" as written. Those who stand in Him through His Son need have NO... fear of His coming judgment upon the wicked on the day of Christ's return.

 

[wolfwint]

Observe…


Jesus’ death Binds Satan…


Heb 2.14 - 15

Dear Bowman, from your mentioned Vers in Hebrews 2 there is nothing written about that the satan is bound!! That Jesus sieges over satans power at the cross is clear! He set every body free who believe in Him ,the Lord Jesus Christ, but i cant read anything about that Satan is bound now! So please show me a clear vers which is saying that Satan isbind now.

The other thing is. Why it is mentioned in Revealation 20, 1-3 that Satan will bound, if he is already bound through Jesus dead at the cross. You only can bind somebody who is free before. To bound a a already bound satan is not clear to understand. That what describes in Revealation 20 is future and not present. Otherwise you must claim that we just know live in millenium. Do you believe that?

And again, i dont know your hermeneutic and exegetic tools. But this tools are the reason, that we can discuss till we enter the heaven without come to one mind. But when we with our Lord we dont need longer to discuss.

 

[popeye]

Those are very misleading statements, because Noah and his were never removed from the waters upon the earth, and in the Rev.12 Scripture about the waters that come out of the serpents mouth against God's people on earth is the endtime blueprint for that.

And you forgot to mention how God protected the children of Israel while they were in Egypt, while outside their houses God's anger was done upon the unbelievers in Egypt.

Isa 33:14-16
14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
KJV

Isa 43:1-3
43:1 But now thus saith the LORD That created thee, O Jacob, and He That formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art Mine.
2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.
3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
KJV



We also have the example in Dan.3 of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego cast into the hot fiery furnace heated seven times hotter than necessary, with a fourth Man with the likeness of The Son of God in that furnace with them. When they came out their clothes didn't even smell of smoke. But when the servants of the king of Babylon got just near that furnace, they were immediately consumed.

And then there's the example in 2 Kings 1 with Elijah asking fire to come down from Heaven upon the band of fifty the sinful king of Israel sent to fetch him. Fire came down from Heaven right in Elijah's presence and burned the fifty up, and it didn't touch Elijah. Another fifty was sent, same thing happened again. But the third time with another fifty, the captain humbled himself before Elijah.

And then there's the somewhat humorous example of 1 Kings 18 where a little test with the prophets of Baal was done to see who The GOD really is. Elijah prayed for fire to come down from Heaven and burn the sacrifice upon the altar which had be soaked in water, and it also burned up the wood that was also soaked in water.

Our Heavenly Father's consuming fire is very... accurate, for He is "a consuming fire" as written. Those who stand in Him through His Son need have NO... fear of His coming judgment upon the wicked on the day of Christ's return.

Amazing how postribs are oblivious to the fact that God does NOT have a postjudgement pattern of deliverance.

You really MUST ABANDON CLEAR COMPREHENSION.

You need to show how God,as you say,delivers his family POSTJUDGEMENT and 5 seconds later RETURNS TO THE EXACT SAME SPOT. (depicting your made up postrib rapture u turn).

Mat 25 depicts a groom fetching his bride which HAS LEFT HER ORIGINAL DWELLING AND DOING A U TURN BACK TO HIS FATHERS HOUSE..

Exactly backwards of what you guys BASELESSLY DEPICTED.

You then try to hammer fit the plagues of Egypt.
Uh,again,you have zero.

Pssst,they went into the wilderness
You sayin God is gonna take you into WILDERNESS postrib??

Oh,wait ,you may be getting the measure of faith you are meeting out to others.

 

[KennethC]

Observe…


Jesus’ death Binds Satan…


Heb 2.14 - 15


Since, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, in like manner He Himself also shared the same things, that through death He might render entirely idle the one having the power of death, that is, the devil; and might set these free, asmany as by fear of deathwere subject to slavery through all the lifetime to live.






Jesus’ death casts-out Satan…


John 12.31 - 33


Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world shall be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself. But He said this, signifying by what kind of death He was about to die.






Jesus’ death both binds & casts-out Satan…


Rev 20.1 - 5


And I saw a Messenger coming down out of Heaven, having the key of the abyss, and a great chain on his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the old serpent who is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, and threw him into the abyss, and shut him up, and sealed over him, that he should not still lead astray the nations, until the thousand years are fulfilled. And after these things, he must be set loose a little time. And I saw thrones, and they sat on them. And judgment was given to them, and the souls of the ones having been beheaded because of the witness of Jesus, and because of the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor its image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

It seems there are quite a few people who would rather believe in fairy tales than scripture. The binding of Satan has nothing to do with any kind of premillennial view. I think it was you that stated sarcastically as to what kind of literal key was used. To take one word, thousand, and make it literal in a book that is absolutely built on symbolism is the height of folly. I read some of Impe's explanations of Revelation and it is hilarious of what he thinks it all means for the future.
Typical of a man lost in his own ego desperately trying to make a name for himself, only to look like a fool.

The two of you run into one major problem if you think Jesus death (crucifixion on the cross) is what bound satan, and that is we are well over 1,000 years since that event took place.

We are even closer to 2,000 years after that event, so even if that was the case then satan would not still be bound as it states he is only bound for a 1,000 years. Which means that he would still be loose now !!!

 

[KennethC]

Amazing how postribs are oblivious to the fact that God does NOT have a postjudgement pattern of deliverance.

You really MUST ABANDON CLEAR COMPREHENSION.

You need to show how God,as you say,delivers his family POSTJUDGEMENT and 5 seconds later RETURNS TO THE EXACT SAME SPOT. (depicting your made up postrib rapture u turn).

Mat 25 depicts a groom fetching his bride which HAS LEFT HER ORIGINAL DWELLING AND DOING A U TURN BACK TO HIS FATHERS HOUSE..

Exactly backwards of what you guys BASELESSLY DEPICTED.

You then try to hammer fit the plagues of Egypt.
Uh,again,you have zero.

Pssst,they went into the wilderness
You sayin God is gonna take you into WILDERNESS postrib??

Oh,wait ,you may be getting the measure of faith you are meeting out to others.

The problem is you still do not know how to discern between the Great Tribulation (man of sins time allotted to him) and the wrath of God. For you continue to make them both be the same or happen at the same time, but Revelation clearly shows God's wrath is poured out after the 1,260/42 months given to the 1st beast/man of sin.

The scriptures also show we are not appointed to God's wrath, it says nothing of escaping persecutions of the world !!!

 

[Cassian]

The two of you run into one major problem if you think Jesus death (crucifixion on the cross) is what bound satan, and that is we are well over 1,000 years since that event took place.

We are even closer to 2,000 years after that event, so even if that was the case then satan would not still be bound as it states he is only bound for a 1,000 years. Which means that he would still be loose now !!!

There is never a problem with following scripture. Bouman and I differ slightly. However, the whole purpose of Christ coming was to defeat death. Satan had exclusive power over death. By dying Christ entered into Satan domain which is what the supporting texts in Matt and Mark testify which states that He bound Satan. Christ defeated death through death and descended into Hades and redeemed all the souls that had been gathered there by Satan. Scripture states that Christ took captive those held in captivity by death. No man is now held permanently by death by Satan. Christ arose from the dead, gave life to our mortal bodies, and defeated Satan's power over death.

As to the 1000 years it is not literal. In scripture, in every instance it means undetermined or a unbounded set of time or number. By making it literal in Rev 20:3 destroys all of Revelation which is built on symbolism. Rev 20 is the beginning of the seventh time that Revelation speaks about the time period between the Advents. Scripture does not teach any kind of premillennial theory. Every variation is a figment of some man's imagination. The theory destroys a lot of what scripture teaches. By taking it out of context, it means that Christ still has not come to defeat Satan. It denies the teaching of Matt and Mark regarding Christ entering the strongman's house and binding him.

Binding Satan has nothing to do with Satan's activity. That is the second huge error that is being foisted in this thread.
This has been the teaching of scripture from the beginning. The modern theory of premillennialism begins with Miller in the early 19th century. It is being magnified by a lot of false teachers who are trying to make a name for themselves.

 

[VCO]

Observe…


Jesus’ death Binds Satan…


Heb 2.14 - 15


Since, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, in like manner He Himself also shared the same things, that through death He might render entirely idle the one having the power of death, that is, the devil; and might set these free, asmany as by fear of deathwere subject to slavery through all the lifetime to live.




Jesus’ death casts-out Satan…


John 12.31 - 33


Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world shall be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself. But He said this, signifying by what kind of death He was about to die.






Jesus’ death both binds & casts-out Satan…


Rev 20.1 - 5


And I saw a Messenger coming down out of Heaven, having the key of the abyss, and a great chain on his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the old serpent who is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, and threw him into the abyss, and shut him up, and sealed over him, that he should not still lead astray the nations, until the thousand years are fulfilled. And after these things, he must be set loose a little time. And I saw thrones, and they sat on them. And judgment was given to them, and the souls of the ones having been beheaded because of the witness of Jesus, and because of the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor its image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

NOTE that SATAN is NOT PHYSICALLY BOUND YET, but HE WILL BE. CHRIST'S DEATH, gave us the VICTORY spiritually ahead of time, and His death is ONLY the being of the spiritual holding back or restraining of Satan, IF we have the Holy Spirit in us. When you see the FEAR in the Demoniacs at GADERA, that the LORD was about to send them to the Abyss, EVEN you SHOULD KNOW that the Abyss is a VERY REAL PHYSICAL PLACE of imprisonment. NO the devil is NOT there yet, but HE WILL BE after the Second Coming of our LORD.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 (NRSV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]As to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we beg you, brothers and sisters,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as though from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord is already here.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come unless the rebellion comes first and the lawless one is revealed, the one destined for destruction.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, declaring himself to be God. {HE IS DEFINITELY NOT PHYSICALLY BOUND YET, ONLY BEING RESTRAINED BY THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT ON EARTH.}
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Do you not remember that I told you these things when I was still with you?
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed when his time comes.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who now restrains it is removed.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will destroy with the breath of his mouth, annihilating him by the manifestation of his coming.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The coming of the lawless one is apparent in the working of Satan, who uses all power, signs, lying wonders,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and every kind of wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion, leading them to believe what is false,
[SUP]12 [/SUP] so that all who have not believed the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness will be condemned.

1 Peter 5:8 (YLT)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Be sober, vigilant, because your opponent the devil, as a roaring lion, doth walk about, seeking whom he may swallow up, {HE IS DEFINITELY NOT TOTALLY BOUND AND CAST IN THE ABYSS ALREADY, ONLY RESTRAINED TO NOT COME TO FULL POWER AS THE ANTI-CHRIST.}

You talk as if you have NO ACTIVE OPPONENT. PETER SAYS YOU ARE WRONG.

Your other mistake is you FAIL to understand that Revelation had NO Chapter and Verse Numbers at all when it was written. The Author (our LORD) intended it to read as one LITERAL event flowing into another Literal event. especially Chapters 19 and 20.

Revelation 19:11-21 thru 20:1-3 (NRSV)
Then I saw heaven opened, and there was a white horse! Its rider is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.
His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems; and he has a name inscribed that no one knows but himself.
He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is called The Word of God.
And the armies of heaven, wearing fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses.
From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron; he will tread the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.
On his robe and on his thigh he has a name inscribed, "King of kings and Lord of lords."
Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly in midheaven, "Come, gather for the great supper of God,
to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of the mighty, the flesh of horses and their riders—flesh of all, both free and slave, both small and great."
Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against the rider on the horse and against his army.
And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed in its presence the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
And the rest were killed by the sword of the rider on the horse, the sword that came from his mouth; and all the birds were gorged with their flesh. {CLEARLY THAT IS DESCRIBING THE PHYSICAL SECOND COMING OF OUR LORD.}
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain.
He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
and threw him into the pit, and locked and sealed it over him, so that he would deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be let out for a little while. {CLEARLY THAT IS HIS FIRST EXECUTIVE ORDER AS HE TAKES HIS RIGHTFUL PLACE ON THE PHYSICAL THRONE OF DAVID IN JERUSALEM.}
Then I saw thrones, and those seated on them were given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.
They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

I removed the Chapter and Verse Numbers so that you can read it for yourself the way it was intended to be read.

Surely you are not one who denies the PHYSICAL Second Coming of our Lord?

 

[popeye]

The problem is you still do not know how to discern between the Great Tribulation (man of sins time allotted to him) and the wrath of God. For you continue to make them both be the same or happen at the same time, but Revelation clearly shows God's wrath is poured out after the 1,260/42 months given to the 1st beast/man of sin.

The scriptures also show we are not appointed to God's wrath, it says nothing of escaping persecutions of the world !!!

Non issue

The martyrs seen in heaven early on in HEAVEN call that period GREAT TRIBULATION.

Read it again. It is in fact 7yrs of judgement with more intensity in the last half.

According to you heaven made a mistake in calling it the GREAT TRIBULATION.

 

[Cassian]

VCO,

Surely you are not one who denies the PHYSICAL Second Coming of our Lord?

How ironic that those that believe in some form of premillennialism take the binding of Satan for some future time.
Which according to scripture would mean Christ has still not come and He never was raised from the dead, defeating death and giving life to the world which will be consummated by His Second PHYSICAL coming. It denies our own physical resurrection. Besides that it denies a lot of things in scripture. It changes who Christ is, denies what He accomplished at His first coming.
Man never really is concerned about what scripture means but rather how he can develop a theory which always denies chunks of scripture in the process.