Is the Devil bound right now...?

[VCO]

I have presented scriptures at least five or six times already in this thread. I'm not going to post them over and over. The point is no a single person has refuted them as yet. If you need them just back track to my previous posts.

There is nothing in scripture that supports any variation of premillennialism, dispensationalism, or an earthly reign of Christ.

WE HAVE SHOWN YOU MANY OF THEM.

YOU HOWEVER CHOOSE TO NOT BELIEVE THEM.

THE PROBLEM IS YOU APPROACH THE SCRIPTURES WITH A PRESUPPOSITION THAT FORCES YOU BEND, RATIONALIZE, TRIVIALIZE, AND DOWN RIGHT REDEFINE MANY VERSES TO MAKE THE SCRIPTURES SAY WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO SAY.

WE HOWEVER ACCEPT WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY, BELIEVE THEM, AND VALIDATE THEM BY LETTING SCRIPTURE, INTERPRET SCRIPTURE, INSTEAD OF THE HUMAN CARNAL MIND. YOU HOWEVER FIND THES TRUTHS IT TO BE PURE FOOLISHNESS, BECAUSE PROPER INTERPRETATION OF THE SPIRITUAL TRUTHS IN SCRIPTURE, CAN ONLY BE ACCOMPLISHED IN THE SPIRITUAL MIND OF A GENUINELY BORN AGAIN HUMAN SPIRIT; WITH THE HELP OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO INDWELLS US.

YES, I JUST SAID I, AND PROBABLY MOST POSTING HERE, SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT YOU HAVE EVER BEEN BORN AGAIN.

 

[VCO]

I let scripture interpret itself.

No you don't Bowman, you have proven that you were deceived by some false prophet,
and now you proceed to try to deceive others.

 

[Cassian]

WE HAVE SHOWN YOU MANY OF THEM.

YOU HOWEVER CHOOSE TO NOT BELIEVE THEM.

THE PROBLEM IS YOU APPROACH THE SCRIPTURES WITH A PRESUPPOSITION THAT FORCES YOU BEND, RATIONALIZE, TRIVIALIZE, AND DOWN RIGHT REDEFINE MANY VERSES TO MAKE THE SCRIPTURES SAY WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO SAY.

WE HOWEVER ACCEPT WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY, BELIEVE THEM, AND VALIDATE THEM BY LETTING SCRIPTURE, INTERPRET SCRIPTURE, INSTEAD OF THE HUMAN CARNAL MIND. YOU HOWEVER FIND THES TRUTHS IT TO BE PURE FOOLISHNESS, BECAUSE PROPER INTERPRETATION OF THE SPIRITUAL TRUTHS IN SCRIPTURE, CAN ONLY BE ACCOMPLISHED IN THE SPIRITUAL MIND OF A GENUINELY BORN AGAIN HUMAN SPIRIT; WITH THE HELP OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO INDWELLS US.

YES, I JUST SAID I, AND PROBABLY MOST POSTING HERE, SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT YOU HAVE EVER BEEN BORN AGAIN.

I know! It is just so practical to believe what one personally interprets. How can one go wrong. Every sola scripturist says the same thing and we have hundreds of denominations, dozens of theories of all kinds. Besides that they are all in flux as every one tries to outdo the others.

I notice that in all of your nonsubstantive reply, there is no evidence once again that the whole combo theory was ever believed from the beginning. Most of you don't even acknowledge the historical stream of the theory. Most want to claim it all as their own very special discovery. A house divided cannot stand neither do theories that are so fluid and varied.

I don't believe the theory because it is not found in scripture as it has always been understood and believed. No one yet has given any evidence that it is NOT a man made theory imposed upon scripture

Your post is a self incriminating statement.

 

[Cassian]

yes ,SEVERAL INDEED;

1)YOU ARE WRONG

2) YOU CAN'T ADMIT IT

3)YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN IT AWAY IN YOUR NORMAL GENERALIZING OF MISINFORMATION.

However I don't see any evidence by you that I am incorrect. What I stated are historical facts. You can check for yourself. You cannot accept them because they deny your whole theory on premillennialism. If it does not exist I don't need to explain it away.

Your assertions are quite empty.

 

[VCO]

. . .
The Holy Spirit gave man ALL of His revelation via the Apostles for this Messianic Age. There is nothing about premillennialism, dispensationalism, or an earthly reign that was given to the Apostles in the beginning. There is nothing in the history of historical Christianity that the Church has ever believed in these teachings. . . .

ONLY WHEN YOU SUBTRACT VERSES FROM THE BIBLE, or DE-LITERALIZE THE MEANING OF SEVERAL VERSES, BECAUSE WITHOUT BEING BORN AGAIN YOU WILL FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THOSE SPRITUAL TRUTHS WITH THEIR LITERAL MEANINGS:

Zechariah 14:3-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations as He fights on a day of battle.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. The Mount of Olives will be split in half from east to west, forming a huge valley, so that half the mountain will move to the north and half to the south.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] You will flee by My mountain valley, for the valley of the mountains will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come and all the holy ones with Him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] On that day there will be no light; the sunlight and moonlight will diminish.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] It will be a day known ⌊only⌋ to Yahweh, without day or night, but there will be light at evening.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea, in summer and winter alike.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] On that day Yahweh will become King over all the earth—Yahweh alone, and His name alone.

Ephesians 3:2 (ASV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] if so be that ye have heard of the dispensation of that grace of God which was given me to you-ward;

Ephesians 3:8-11 (ASV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, was this grace given, to preach unto the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery which for ages hath been hid in God who created all things;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] to the intent that now unto the principalities and the powers in the heavenly places might be made known through the church the manifold wisdom of God,
[SUP]11 [/SUP] according to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Luke 1:32-33 (HCSB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. {<--- AN EARTHLY KINGDOM!}
[SUP]33 [/SUP] He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.

Cassian, the LORD just spoke to my heart, if you will NOT hear with spiritual ears, these few verses, THERE IS NO POINT is my repeating everything that I have pointed out to you in the past. If you reject this, it is time for me to kick the dust from my feet and go on to encourage some one else.

John 3:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

 

[Bowman]

The event in 2 Thess.2 of the one holds until it's time for his revealing is about the events to occur at the end this present world prior to Jesus' 2nd coming, i.e, the timing of "great tribulation" Jesus taught.

2 Thes 2 informs the reader, quite plainly, that Satan is ALREADY Bound.

Satan was bound and nailed to The Cross!

He has been taken 'out-of- the-way' until Jesus returns...


2 Thes 2.6 - 7

και νυν το κατεχον οιδατε εις το αποκαλυφθηναι αυτον εν τω αυτου καιρω το γαρ μυστηριον ηδη ενεργειται της ανομιας μονον ο κατεχων αρτι εωςεκ μεσου γενηται

kai nyn to katechon iodate eis to apokalyphthēnai auton en tō heautou kairō to gar mystērion ēdē energeitai tēs anomias monon ho katechōn arti heōsek mesou genētai

And you know that which is binding him for now, to be revealed in his appointed time. For The Hidden, The Lawless is already working, only he is bound at present, taken out of the way, until he comes out of the midst.

 

[Bowman]

No you don't Bowman, you have proven that you were deceived by some false prophet,
and now you proceed to try to deceive others.

We're not talking Disciple Dave, here.

I use original language exegesis when arriving at a conclusion.

You run from the original languages....it scares you to think that you could be wrong....and...you most certainly are...

 

[Bowman]

The first Scripture that comes to mind right off the bat is this one:

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Context, brother...

The preceding verse first mentions that Jesus was killed, as the catalyst.....thus, the '1k year' earthy reign began at The Cross, and continues to this very day...

 

[49]

Context, brother...

The preceding verse first mentions that Jesus was killed, as the catalyst.....thus, the '1k year' earthy reign began at The Cross, and continues to this very day...

If the 1,000 year reign began when Jesus died and continues to this very day, how can that be? It is almost 2,000 years since He ascended.

 

[Bowman]

If the 1,000 year reign began when Jesus died and continues to this very day, how can that be? It is almost 2,000 years since He ascended.

The obvious...

The '1 K reign' cannot be a literal future event.

 

[49]

The obvious...

The '1 K reign' cannot be a literal future event.

If that is so, then why are lions still preying on animals and not hay?

 

[Ahwatukee]

If the 1,000 year reign began when Jesus died and continues to this very day, how can that be? It is almost 2,000 years since He ascended.

Hi 49,

You're wasting your time with Bowman and Cassian, for they are Amillennialists, which means, "not a thousand". And they get this formula from Psalm 50:10 which says "I own cattle on a thousand hills." So, since the cattle on a thousand hills is an unknown number, they apply that formula to Rev.20:1-7 and that without first considering the immediate context, making the clear statement of a thousand years an unknowable amount of time and that's how they get away with their claim that we are currently living in the thousand years which isn't really a thousand years.

The truth is that, the chronological order has the literal thousand years beginning when Christ returns to end the age and where Satan is literally bound in the literal Abyss and the resurrected saints rule with him during that literal thousand years. The other thing that they will try to tell you is that, Jesus is currently ruling from heaven through believer's. All one has to do is look around and it is obvious that believers are not ruling on this earth. They will also tell you that most everything regarding end time events in Revelation have already taken place. They have no idea of what is coming! My advice to you is to go out and search on Amillennialist and read up on what they believe. You will be amazed at the absurdity of their interpretation, to say the least. I have some good documents that cover most of the basics on Amillennialism. Let me know your email address and I'll send it to you if you are interested.

 

[Ahwatukee]

If that is so, then why are lions still preying on animals and not hay?

Exactly! I've mentioned the same thing many times, as well as the prey and predator animals being at peace with each other, as well as the nations beating their weapons of war into agricultural tools and not training for war anymore, but that does not compute with them, because they have a pre-package circumvention for every scripture that proves them wrong.

 

[Cassian]

ONLY WHEN YOU SUBTRACT VERSES FROM THE BIBLE, or DE-LITERALIZE THE MEANING OF SEVERAL VERSES, BECAUSE WITHOUT BEING BORN AGAIN YOU WILL FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THOSE SPRITUAL TRUTHS WITH THEIR LITERAL MEANINGS:

Zechariah 14:3-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations as He fights on a day of battle.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. The Mount of Olives will be split in half from east to west, forming a huge valley, so that half the mountain will move to the north and half to the south.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] You will flee by My mountain valley, for the valley of the mountains will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come and all the holy ones with Him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] On that day there will be no light; the sunlight and moonlight will diminish.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] It will be a day known ⌊only⌋ to Yahweh, without day or night, but there will be light at evening.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea, in summer and winter alike.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] On that day Yahweh will become King over all the earth—Yahweh alone, and His name alone.

Ephesians 3:2 (ASV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] if so be that ye have heard of the dispensation of that grace of God which was given me to you-ward;

Ephesians 3:8-11 (ASV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, was this grace given, to preach unto the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery which for ages hath been hid in God who created all things;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] to the intent that now unto the principalities and the powers in the heavenly places might be made known through the church the manifold wisdom of God,
[SUP]11 [/SUP] according to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Luke 1:32-33 (HCSB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. {<--- AN EARTHLY KINGDOM!}
[SUP]33 [/SUP] He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.

Cassian, the LORD just spoke to my heart, if you will NOT hear with spiritual ears, these few verses, THERE IS NO POINT is my repeating everything that I have pointed out to you in the past. If you reject this, it is time for me to kick the dust from my feet and go on to encourage some one else.

John 3:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

More of same misunderstanding of the texts you quoted. I have already shown that the Throne of David is in heaven.
Such a shame you don't really understand scripture. You quote it and don't even understand that you are not in the Kingdom as yet, according to your view so whether you think you are born again means nothing unless you live lone enough to get in that Kingdom that is still in the distant future. The Kingdom is still in the future not now according to you.
You are quite confused which is usually the problem with false theories. They tickle man's ears so much that one cannot get past the blinders to actually see the Truth.

I am in the Kingdom just as Christ stated after His resurrection. I am in the Kingdom that is without end. Have you ever read the Nicene Creed?

You should also read Peter's sermon on Pentecost. He throws your whole view right in the wastebasket. That is in Acts 2.

 

[Bowman]

If that is so, then why are lions still preying on animals and not hay?

Quote the scripture and to what event you think that it applies...

 

[Bowman]

Hi 49,

You're wasting your time with Bowman and Cassian, for they are Amillennialists, which means, "not a thousand". And they get this formula from Psalm 50:10 which says "I own cattle on a thousand hills." So, since the cattle on a thousand hills is an unknown number, they apply that formula to Rev.20:1-7 and that without first considering the immediate context, making the clear statement of a thousand years an unknowable amount of time and that's how they get away with their claim that we are currently living in the thousand years which isn't really a thousand years.

I have never once referenced Psalm 50.10 to prove my point....so that would be a fail on your part.

I did, however, lexically define the very term rendered as 'thousand' in Rev 20....and you ignored it, totally....which is most humorous, as you are frantically looking EVERYWHERE else for some shred of evidence for your lame position EXCEPT to the very term itself!

Epic failure on your part...

 

[VCO]

I know! It is just so practical to believe what one personally interprets. How can one go wrong. Every sola scripturist says the same thing and we have hundreds of denominations, dozens of theories of all kinds. Besides that they are all in flux as every one tries to outdo the others.

I notice that in all of your nonsubstantive reply, there is no evidence once again that the whole combo theory was ever believed from the beginning. Most of you don't even acknowledge the historical stream of the theory. Most want to claim it all as their own very special discovery. A house divided cannot stand neither do theories that are so fluid and varied.

I don't believe the theory because it is not found in scripture as it has always been understood and believed. No one yet has given any evidence that it is NOT a man made theory imposed upon scripture

Your post is a self incriminating statement.

NO, it is the FACT that GOD is intelligent enough to say what He means and means what He says, like those verses in Zech. 14:3-9 that I showed you. Have a nice life, but you may not like the here after.

 

[VCO]

I mean really....

Could you have selected a passage which more completely and utterly destroys what you just said?!

2 Thes 2 states very plainly that Satan is BOUND!!!

And this proclamation was made >2K years ago.

Thus, your 1K literal reading is obviously incorrect.

Satan was bound at The Cross.



Think, McFly, think......
View attachment 137487

BOWMAN, restraining IS NOT THE SAME a PHYSICALLY BINDING with a CHAIN and locking Him in an Abyss, not even close. Even a child can figure that one out.

Like I told you before, YOU CHANGE THE MEANING OF BINDING to make fit what you want to believe.

Binding: is defined as an action or something that ties together, attaches or holds down.
An example of binding is someone being tied to a chair and unable to move; a binding situation.

Now the context of the verse about restraining, clearly is talking about not allowing Satan to come to full power as the Antichrist UNTIL the the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way. THAT is NOT the SAME as BINDING HIM, but that chain that the angel brings down from heaven, CERTAINLY will do the job.


2 Thessalonians 2:7 (GW)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The mystery of this sin is already at work. But it cannot work effectively until the person now holding it back gets out of the way.

 

[ukok102nak]

6*καὶ νῦν τὸ κατέχον οἴδατε, εἰς τὸ ἀποκαλυφθῆναι αὐτὸν ἐν τῷ ⸀ἑαυτοῦ καιρῷ·
7*τὸ γὰρ μυστήριον ἤδη ἐνεργεῖται τῆς ἀνομίας· μόνον ὁ κατέχων ἄρτι ἕως ἐκ μέσου γένηται.

2 Thessalonians 2:6
καὶ νῦν τὸ κατέχον οἴδατε, εἰς τὸ ἀποκαλυφθῆναι αὐτὸν ἐν τῷ αὐτοῦ καιρῷ. 2 Thessalonians 2:6
καὶ νῦν τὸ κατέχον οἴδατε, εἰς τὸ ἀποκαλυφθῆναι αὐτὸν ἐν τῷ αὐτοῦ καιρῷ.

IF WILL ONLY CONTINUE TO READ IT FROM
2 Thessalonians: 2. 6. And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12. That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

What the scripture saying from this verses is
that
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
And not Satan himself

 

[VCO]

We're not talking Disciple Dave, here.

I use original language exegesis when arriving at a conclusion.

You run from the original languages....it scares you to think that you could be wrong....and...you most certainly are...

That is the problem Bowman, you are so proud of your education, that you think you are infallible. You fail to understand, that correctly interpreting the Scriptures involves the leading of the Holy Spirit, being Born Again, with an eternally alive human spirit in you that also thinks, which is in tune with and being taught by the Holy Spirit Himself. You use only that fallible mind that lies between your ears, with no input from the Holy Spirit, nor the spiritual mind of the heart that EVERY truly born again Christian has.

1 Corinthians 2:1-16 (NIV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

John 14:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


The translators of nearly every Bible Translation UNDERSTOOD this, and that is why they did not trust a single man translating the BIBLE by himself. INSTEAD, they assembled a team of translators, who checked and double checked each others work. THEY PRAYED DAILY TO BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AS THEY TRANSLATED, and still they checked and double checked each other's work.

AND here you sit doing your own translating with absolutely NO ONE checking your work, and no input from the Holy Spirit, SPOUTING that all of our Biblical Scholars and all the Translation Teams of the past got it all wrong.