The Law Debacle Resolved

[PeterJens]

They openly deny that the law must be kept, but then imply through their crafty words and practiced deception that it must be kept in order to be saved (by saying those who are truly saved will keep the law)

There is a problem in this proposition. The law as in Moses law in wrapped up in the temple, which is impossible to keep.
So if you are saying there is a law that is being preached it is not this.

In terms of righteousness, the apostles do say we walk in righteousness.

EG argued months ago people in some churches end up with lists of behaviour not acceptable, and behaviour that was approved. They failed though to love and so ended in legalism. Legalism can happen anywhere. I can go to church because I always do, or because I love the Lord and expect to be spoken to and to share.

It is true some have said any list of morality is wrong. The problem is the apostles made such lists, and lists of expressions of life that were commendable. So we are called to obey and to behave in particular ways.

Now this is the fruit of faith, but I do not understand your suspicion without evidence. I have not read such statements, and I personally have provided known, as far as I know.

Jesus was continually accused of being a law breaker, but was not. They said he did miracles by the devil, but he did not.

As I keep saying if I say, "I keep the law of righteousness by the power of the Spirit" but not "I keep the law" is not.
You have to give people some leeway of expression, else it get very legalistic.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I think everyone who has contributed to this thread knows that we are saved by God's grace and the gift of faith alone. I challenge anyone who disagrees with this truth to come out and show yourselves. We are to contend for the faith. Amen? Who agrees with this? Who disagrees with this? Quote me and say it clearly.

I agree.

Do you believe observing the 4th commandment is necessary to, not earn, but establish righteousness?

Do you believe keeping the 4th commandment is the fruit of our obedience to the faith?

Do you believe that those who are truly saved will keep the 4th commandment?

 

[zzz98]

titus 3: 5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done (which would include all works, not just works of the law) but BY HIS MERCY, HE SAVED US..by the washing and renewal of the HS

ie, not by our works, but by His work.

Tituss 3:8 "this message is most trustworthy and concerning these things I want you to insist steadfastly, so that those who have believed in God may be CAREFUL to apply themselves to HONORABLE occupations and doing GOOD, for such things are not only EXCELLENT and RIGHT, but they are good for the people.

Titus 2:7 "and show your own self in all respects to be a pattern and model of GOOD DEEDS and WORKS."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think everyone who has contributed to this thread knows that we are saved by God's grace and the gift of faith alone. I challenge anyone who disagrees with this truth to come out and show yourselves. We are to contend for the faith. Amen? Who agrees with this? Who disagrees with this? Quote me and say it clearly.

again, No one will argue with you. You have to get in the deep study of what they actually preach.

No one in their right mind would deny this, but not everyone believes this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Tituss 3:8 "this message is most trustworthy and concerning these things I want you to insist steadfastly, so that those who have believed in God may be CAREFUL to apply themselves to HONORABLE occupations and doing GOOD, for such things are not only EXCELLENT and RIGHT, but they are good for the people.

Titus 2:7 "and show your own self in all respects to be a pattern and model of GOOD DEEDS and WORKS."

they do not disproves titus 3: 5 Your getting ahead of yourself.

If titus 3: 5 is not made a reality, non of those other verses mean a thing, you can work all you want, your just a tired worn out person who has yet to be saved by Gods mercy.. And when you get to heaven, all your work will be for naught.

Those verses only apply to those who were saved by Vs 5.

 

[JaumeJ]

And you do not see clearly that this declaration after the grilling of the obedient children is not an implied accusation? It is. Think on it.

I'm Christian; saved by faith. Nothing more; nothing less.

 

[zzz98]

they do not disproves titus 3: 5 Your getting ahead of yourself.

If titus 3: 5 is not made a reality, non of those other verses mean a thing, you can work all you want, your just a tired worn out person who has yet to be saved by Gods mercy.. And when you get to heaven, all your work will be for naught.

Those verses only apply to those who were saved by Vs 5.

no one is saying we are saved by works! If a gang banger gets saved, do they return to gang banging since they are now saved, or do they let Christ's light shine by doing good?

 

[JaumeJ]

I was not inquiring nor was I accusing. Thanks.

I'm a hospice chaplain; I serve God by tending to the needs of terminally ill people. I bring comfort, friendship and prayer to those under my care, and I do it all in the name of Jesus Christ. Through it all, I live in poverty because being a hospice chaplain doesn't bring monetary wealth. Does my life of servitude grant me salvation or maintain my salvation? No, it doesn't. My faith in Jesus does, period.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

no one is saying we are saved by works! If a gang banger gets saved, do they return to gang banging since they are now saved, or do they let Christ's light shine by doing good?

so you teach we are saved by grace not works. This whoever is saved is saved forever?

Gang Bangin? Whats that have to do with salvation, If a gang banger gets saved is he saved or not?

 

[JaumeJ]

God expects us to shine brightly for all who seek Jesus Christ. We are not to bury our gift of faith.

God does-not want us to work for him. He wants to work through us. By his Spirit his work is his idea
and he gets the Glory.

When I go off on my own. I am not trusting God to direct me and use me.

Trust the Spirit. He will give you plenty of work.


Kefa

 

[Shoshanah]

I agree.

Do you believe observing the 4th commandment is necessary to, not earn, but establish righteousness?

Do you believe keeping the 4th commandment is the fruit of our obedience to the faith?

Do you believe that those who are truly saved will keep the 4th commandment?

You tell me first. What does the Sabbath mean to you, and then tell my why you are bringing it up ? If you didn't know before, why did you say what you did about me to bring adversity to this thread? Back up your accusations and stay away from the “it seemed” or “it appears to me” statements. You will not get a response from me until I clearly see some sincerity from you.

I think everyone who has contributed to this thread knows that we are saved by God's grace and the gift of faith alone. I challenge anyone who disagrees with this truth to come out and show yourselves. We are to contend for the faith. Amen? Who agrees with this? Who disagrees with this? Quote me and say it clearly.

again, No one will argue with you. You have to get in the deep study of what they actually preach.

No one in their right mind would deny this, but not everyone believes this.

Then what's the beef? Take a good look at HeRoseFromTheDead's post to me. What's the purpose of this antagonism?

 

[Utah]

I think everyone who has contributed to this thread knows that we are saved by God's grace and the gift of faith alone. I challenge anyone who disagrees with this truth to come out and show yourselves. We are to contend for the faith. Amen? Who agrees with this? Who disagrees with this? Quote me and say it clearly.

No, my Lady. There are those who state you must work to maintain being in the faith, thus you must work to maintain salvation. They always refer to, faith without works is dead, rather than for God so loved the world. Believe me, I would not debate people who understand and embrace the fullness of God's grace, but instead, the debate is with people who lack such understanding. I will say it up to and including my last, dying breath; our forgiveness is at the foot of the Cross, our salvation is at the Empty Tomb, and God's gifts are irrevocable.

 

[JaumeJ]

No child of obedience is fixed on the law, he is fixed on obeying >Jesus Christ. This has been confessed by all of us throughout the thread. The OP declares this quite acutely and clearly. Others have repeated it the same. This is another blind observation, and this is not name calling, it is a fact.

A sad amen to this. We are to remain focused on Jesus, not the law.

 

[JaumeJ]

I must repeat, again on deaf ears? I hope not. We who are children of obedience are obliged by our gratitude to be obedient to the teachings of Jesus Christ, and His example. This would say it all to anyone by the Holy Spirit, but this message of truth has not reached any of it detractors. Instead, when it is passed on, nothing but accusation and vilification comes in return. Praise Jesus Christ, I must rejoice, amen.

Don't ask us who understand we are saved by faith; ask, as Crossnote said, those who are fixated on the law.

On edit: you beat me to it Crossnote!

 

[Utah]

And you do not see clearly that this declaration after the grilling of the obedient children is not an implied accusation? It is. Think on it.

What?????????

 

[Utah]

No child of obedience is fixed on the law, he is fixed on obeying >Jesus Christ. This has been confessed by all of us throughout the thread. The OP declares this quite acutely and clearly. Others have repeated it the same. This is another blind observation, and this is not name calling, it is a fact.

Can you lose your salvation? Yes or no? If yes, how?

 

[Shoshanah]

No, my Lady. There are those who state you must work to maintain being in the faith, thus you must work to maintain salvation. They always refer to, faith without works is dead, rather than for God so loved the world. Believe me, I would not debate people who understand and embrace the fullness of God's grace, but instead, the debate is with people who lack such understanding. I will say it up to and including my last, dying breath; our forgiveness is at the foot of the Cross, our salvation is at the Empty Tomb, and God's gifts are irrevocable.

I see people quote the half brother of Christ Jesus. Rather than debate and accuse, wouldn't it be better to quote more scripture because scripture doesn't contradict itself. We are saved by faith alone by only the grace of God in Jesus. This is true, but what does this faith do after the fact of being born again? You made a good point in the work that you do in a previous post that I really liked. It was heart warming.

 

[Utah]

I must repeat, again on deaf ears? I hope not. We who are children of obedience are obliged by our gratitude to be obedient to the teachings of Jesus Christ, and His example. This would say it all to anyone by the Holy Spirit, but this message of truth has not reached any of it detractors. Instead, when it is passed on, nothing but accusation and vilification comes in return. Praise Jesus Christ, I must rejoice, amen.

You're a child of obedience; I'm a child of love and grace.

For me, the Cross and Tomb are empty and God's grace is sufficient.

 

[Shoshanah]

Can you lose your salvation? Yes or no? If yes, how?

Can you describe the "falling away" that is revealed in scripture? That has to be true because it's God's words not man's. What would cause that to happen? Now to clarify, if anyone is truly saved, and truly abides in Christ, then I don't believe they will fall away from Christ, but abiding in Christ is every day, not just a thing of the past.

 

[Utah]

I see people quote the half brother of Christ Jesus. Rather than debate and accuse, wouldn't it be better to quote more scripture because scripture doesn't contradict itself. We are saved by faith alone by only the grace of God in Jesus. This is true, but what does this faith do after the fact of being born again? You made a good point in the work that you do in a previous post that I really liked. It was heart warming.

Amen to the first bolded sentence, and thank you for your kind words in the second bolded sentence.

What does this faith do after the fact of being born again? Read and rejoice in the following:

[h=3]The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector[/h]To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”