Is Atheism a Religion?

[kaylagrl]

Hi there,

I am an atheist and I would not class myself as religious. If I met another Atheist I would not presume anything in common with them except the lack of belief in a God or Gods.

Many Atheists believe in things I do not. They have different morals to myself, different world views, political beliefs and understanding of the world.

Is it the existence of Atheist organisations that leads you to call Atheism a religion?

Well there are many Christians here that I disagree with and they sure do disagree with me. But we still have common beliefs and so we are Christians though Im loath to call it a "religion". Would you say atheists have a common belief and worldview? I think that is why people may consider it a religion.

 

[JessP]

You make a good point about disagreeing about many things with other Christians.

I would say we do not have a common worldview.
I would say the only shared belief I can guarantee other Atheists have is the lack of belief in God/Gods. We do agree that we believe there is no god but what we do with that information is up to us. How we act and live our lives based on that information does not make us any more or less Atheist. There are no rules or expectations or shared agreements beyond that one point.

For example: I might not like chocolate, others might agree with me. However beyond that we share no other common ground. Does that make us a religion? no it just means we share a dislike of chocolate.

Does that make sense in terms of a shared world view?

 

[PeterJens]

Hi there,

I am an atheist and I would not class myself as religious. If I met another Atheist I would not presume anything in common with them except the lack of belief in a God or Gods.

Many Atheists believe in things I do not. They have different morals to myself, different world views, political beliefs and understanding of the world.

Is it the existence of Atheist organisations that leads you to call Atheism a religion?

An atheist takes their belief system as a pure negative, the rejection of a certain form of theism.

You will find though this is often in a christian context, the rejection of a creator God with an intention at a meaningful personal relationship.

On the positive side you will find most atheists are naturalists, putting their faith or trust in their experience and scientific or otherwise understanding of the natural world, normally encompassing evolution.

Because the belief system is a rejection, ideas about philosophy or meaning often have not been tackled or how the sense of belonging or caring about things is rooted in their lives. If you have a purely experiential view of life, the problem is if you cannot explain something or form a model about it, how does anything ultimately hold together?

What you will find is people suddenly invent a context and a meaning, a moral reference point. What they may not know is any reference point requires faith or an assumption, which is by its nature a religious belief. The problem is ofcourse without a set of doctrines or common themes these can be as diverse as the group of people who hold to this position of rejection of theism.

So I would suggest atheists are believers in something, but often this is purely informal and experiential, which often defies real definition but is rather cultural. It often shows itself in the rejection of obvious superstition and miss-appropriating coincidents with defined meaning or miracles.

The mistake a lot of atheists make, is the philosophical open ended ideas can easily end up with Nazi style world views and extreme responses to simple problems because there is no tempering reference points to bring sanity back to the emotional equation.

 

[PeterJens]

I have a problem with atheism and the belief naturalism makes sense.
1. Look at the universe. It is mainly empty space, vast, billions of light years of nothing.
2. Look at matter. It is mainly empty space, vast spaces between protons + neutrons and electrons.

How we interact is based on the illusion of interactions which at the quantum level could be either one thing or the other and at the macro scale give the impression of time but this is only relative to how we look at it.

Our only certainty is our conscience, our loyalties to those we know, family, friends etc. The very fabric of our lives is where Jesus stands and talks, which is very odd, because everything else seems to want to point away from Him.

So it seems to become easy to construct an argument of negation, but not a positive affirmation that makes sense.
This is why I would hold atheism is like a fake theism, and is trying to mimic the life of theists as if this justifies their denial of sin, conscience and truth.

 

[Dan_473]

Is that how the Buddhist or New Ager would define God?

I think so, yes...

I'll be honest as well, because there is no quote of what you are speaking of...neither do I, lol.

your post #90 that begins

So how do we define "God?"

"Religion" is not singular.

I believe 'a religion' is singular

But isn't it clear that when I say atheists I am not referring to every religion that denies the existence of God or gods, or holds beliefs that do not include a Supreme Being?

well, no... that wasn't clear to me... so, you just mean certain kinds of atheists join in the same religion?

 

[Dan_473]

That is fairly close to what I "we" have been saying, Dan.

good to hear we're on the same track... (I'm loving the discussion, btw... hope you are, too...)

So if the thief does not accept that he is a criminal we have no common ground to assert that they are still criminals?

no common ground between the theif and us... in the same way, if the atheist doesn't accept that they already have knowledge of God, then imo no common ground between the atheist and us for that use of the word 'religion'...

 

[Dan_473]

As far as definitions of religion, you can review the OP and several posts in this thread already. I gave more in the posts you are responding to now.

yes, you have given definitions of religion... so, remember when we talked about the word 'job' and how its meaning is affected by the context? How about saying which definition of religion and atheism you're using in the context of this discussion... or if you've already said that, telling me which post...

 

[Dan_473]

That is true, but could you list some of those "general statements?"

I would like to see what you have in mind.

imo, most atheists have a morality, and are huminists...

Could you list those things as well?

imo, the things (or maybe better, thing) that are required by the definition of atheism are disbelief (imo, lack of belief) in God or gods...

Everyone has morality...

myself, I try to not to use all / every... but sure, most... (for example, I'm not sure about insane people... if they have a morality...)

 

[kaylagrl]

You make a good point about disagreeing about many things with other Christians.

I would say we do not have a common worldview.
I would say the only shared belief I can guarantee other Atheists have is the lack of belief in God/Gods. We do agree that we believe there is no god but what we do with that information is up to us. How we act and live our lives based on that information does not make us any more or less Atheist. There are no rules or expectations or shared agreements beyond that one point.

For example: I might not like chocolate, others might agree with me. However beyond that we share no other common ground. Does that make us a religion? no it just means we share a dislike of chocolate.

Does that make sense in terms of a shared world view?

Thanks for sharing. Would you say you are an atheist or agnostic? Would you say you could say for sure there is no God? And did you ever have anything to do with church? How did you come to this decision? Too many questions? lol lol Sorry only answer what you'd like to share.

 

[Dan_473]

Morality and Secular Humanism?

correct... imo, not required to be an atheist...

It's not really a matter of getting them to agree, it's simply a matter of examining the issues.

well, I'm confused... I thought the goal was persuading them to agree to something they didn't previously agree to...

If that were true we would not have the many atheist Organizations we have today.

well, maybe this is the key, then... I agree that there are many atheist Organizations, I disagree that they represent all atheists...

 

[Dan_473]

Hi there,

I am an atheist and I would not class myself as religious. If I met another Atheist I would not presume anything in common with them except the lack of belief in a God or Gods.

Many Atheists believe in things I do not. They have different morals to myself, different world views, political beliefs and understanding of the world.

Is it the existence of Atheist organisations that leads you to call Atheism a religion?

Hi JessP, welcome to the forums.

 

[tik]

Atheists claim they have a very convincing explanation of why people believe in God. For them belief in God arises from incapacity to cope with the real world and its uncertainties. Religion is imagined because people do not wish to face reality. Religion’s purpose is to create illusory fantasies for the poor. Economic realities prevent the poor from finding true happiness in this life, so religion tells them that this is OK because they will find true happiness in the next life. Karl Marx’s contention was that religion gives people artificial, illusory happiness—like opium does to a drug addict. People would rather have faith to sooth than reason at the price of perpetually infantile mentality. For an atheist, then, God is a wish fulfilment, a fictional Father figure projected on the sky of imagination and created by our desire for comfort and security. Heaven is invention to cope with human fear of extinction at death, and religion is simply a psychological escape mechanism so that we don’t have to face life as it really is.

This explanation works very well provided only that God does not exist. But if God does exist, then exactly the same argument will show you that it is atheism that is the comforting delusion, the flight from facing reality, a projection of the desire not to have to meet God one day and give account for your life. As Nobel Laureate Czestaw Mitosz points out “true opium of the people is a belief in nothingness after death - the huge solace of thinking that for our betrayals, greed, cowardice, murders, we are not going to be judged.” Atheism’s purpose, then, is to create illusory fantasies for the well-off. Prosperity, success and enjoyment are illusory true happiness, and atheism tells you that this is OK because this life is the only life you’ll ever have, so make the most of it. Thue, if God does exist, atheism is an invention to cope with human fear of judgement after death and psychological escape mechanism to avoid taking ultimate responsibility for one’s own life. So atheism can be seen as the product of perpetually infantile, juvenile, apathetic, corrupt and dreading mentality.

You can see similarity between Atheism and Religion

 

[Dan_473]

[ I read through the posts one by one, and am currently up to #111, but wanted to post this.]



say, P1LGR1M, suppose I say this:

Is atheism a religion? No, because it could be a part of several religions.


At the same time, is there a group a people who:

Self-identify as atheists,

Are very evangelistic in their efforts to spread their worldview,

Share enough religious traits in common to reasonably be called a Religion? Yes.

Is there still an area where we would disagree?

 

[Lynx]

Atheist megachurches rock! Especially their children's church.

[video=youtube;26nJjNDsbmk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26nJjNDsbmk[/video]

 

[P1LGR1M]

Hi there,

Hello Jess, and sorry I didn't see this earlier, but welcome to the thread. Your contribution to it gives it a little balance.

I am an atheist and I would not class myself as religious.

So have you looked at the definitions given for religion and been able to exclude them as applicable to you?

If I met another Atheist I would not presume anything in common with them except the lack of belief in a God or Gods.

Would you presume they might embrace Evolution?

What are your beliefs in regards to the origin of life and the universe?

Many Atheists believe in things I do not.

I am sure you are unique in your beliefs, and no-one has stated that atheists can be put in a box. Just as Christians cannot be.

They have different morals to myself, different world views, political beliefs and understanding of the world.

I have stood with other atheists and debated atheists on moral issues. Atheists are diverse in their views.

For example, we have atheists that are pro-choice as well as atheists that are against abortion.

Is it the existence of Atheist organisations that leads you to call Atheism a religion?

Not at all, this just illustrates that Atheism cannot be seen, as you suggest here, as something that has no organization. Atheists come together specifically related to their beliefs, and this is where the Organizations come from.

Again, I would invite you to review the thread and object where you see something is error in your view.

You will be included in the conversation as a person, my friend, not as an enemy.

And if you don't mind, I would like to know what led you to the point where you decided you would be an atheist, rather than someone who acknowledges God or gods.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

You make a good point about disagreeing about many things with other Christians.

I would say we do not have a common worldview.
I would say the only shared belief I can guarantee other Atheists have is the lack of belief in God/Gods. We do agree that we believe there is no god but what we do with that information is up to us. How we act and live our lives based on that information does not make us any more or less Atheist. There are no rules or expectations or shared agreements beyond that one point.

For example: I might not like chocolate, others might agree with me. However beyond that we share no other common ground. Does that make us a religion? no it just means we share a dislike of chocolate.

Does that make sense in terms of a shared world view?

Good question.

How about if someone refuses to eat chocolate because they don't eat anything that has animal products in it?

Can we see anything "religious" in that?

Is it not a spiritual matter when we consider life to be sacred, and that to violate life by exploiting the life of another "animal" is something that could be viewed as a religious belief?

So the question is why you dislike chocolate, not so much an agreement on disliking it.

Vegans and Vegetarians and Jews will not eat pork...do they all do so for the same reasons?

Now, put all three in conditions where they have no choice but to eat pork or die. We will see how religious those three are in whether they will die for their convictions.

Me, I would say only the most religious of the three would starve before eating the pork.

But that doesn't change the fact that they had beliefs which were similar, or that we could not distinguish between motives. The vegetarian might say they don't eat it because it is unhealthy, but they would also view starving to death as unhealthy, and therefore yield. The Vegan and Jew, well, some might, others might decide it is better to starve to death than violate their beliefs.



God bless.

 

[JessP]

Hello Jess, and sorry I didn't see this earlier, but welcome to the thread. Your contribution to it gives it a little balance.




So have you looked at the definitions given for religion and been able to exclude them as applicable to you?




Would you presume they might embrace Evolution?

What are your beliefs in regards to the origin of life and the universe?




I am sure you are unique in your beliefs, and no-one has stated that atheists can be put in a box. Just as Christians cannot be.




I have stood with other atheists and debated atheists on moral issues. Atheists are diverse in their views.

For example, we have atheists that are pro-choice as well as atheists that are against abortion.




Not at all, this just illustrates that Atheism cannot be seen, as you suggest here, as something that has no organization. Atheists come together specifically related to their beliefs, and this is where the Organizations come from.

Again, I would invite you to review the thread and object where you see something is error in your view.

You will be included in the conversation as a person, my friend, not as an enemy.

And if you don't mind, I would like to know what led you to the point where you decided you would be an atheist, rather than someone who acknowledges God or gods.


God bless.

In that case is everything a religion?
What would the opposite of religious be?
Are agnostics Religious ?

I suppose Atheists in some sense are opposed to religion ( not in an anti-theistic way necessarily) but what makes us Atheist is our desire not to be recognised as religious.

I am not trying to sit on the fence but the questions help my to clarify peoples thinking on this subject as someone with an opposing view before I can explain why I disagree I need to understand what it is I am exactly disagrring with or if infact I want to change my view.

Of course I don't mind talking about why I am an Atheist. However I don't want to hijack this thread, so If you are interested I would be more than happy to privet message you if you would like to talk about it.

 

[JessP]

I definitely think that there could be religious reasons behind actions but then is it the action that makes it a religion or the reason behind it ? For example two different religions have the same action not to eat pork.

The result is the same, however the would Identify as different religions.

I don't identify myself as religious and I don't claim to have anything more in common with any other Atheist apart from my lack of belief. Many Atheist disagree about the extent to which someone can be an Atheist.

How might my being an Atheist influence my actions? Are there any other commonalities between me and another Atheist?

 

[Budman]

Atheists believe the universe created itself from nothing by faith.

Atheists believe life created itself from dead matter by faith.

Atheists believe the massive information contained in DNA is the result of random chemical reactions by faith.

Atheists believe random mutations result in an increase in genetic information, and thus macro-evolution, by faith.

Atheists believe the eye with it's cornea, iris, lens, retina, and millions of light sensitive cells and cones - the heart, blood, blood vessels, liver - the brain, with it's 100 billion neurons, spinal cord, and electrical nervous system, with 45 miles of nerves - the stomach, stomach acid, intestines, and digestive system, ETC., ALL evolved RANDOMLY by CHANCE without any guidance or foresight, by faith.

It is definitely a religion. And they all worship at the alter of Darwinian evolution.

 

[Magenta]

I definitely think that there could be religious reasons behind actions but then is it the action that makes it a religion or the reason behind it ? For example two different religions have the same action not to eat pork.

The result is the same, however the would Identify as different religions.

I don't identify myself as religious and I don't claim to have anything more in common with any other Atheist apart from my lack of belief. Many Atheist disagree about the extent to which someone can be an Atheist.

How might my being an Atheist influence my actions? Are there any other commonalities between me and another Atheist?

Welcome to CC!

An atheist needs to look at the ramifications of their lack of belief in God. It is one thing to say, I do not believe what other atheists believe regarding evolution, for instance, but at some point you will come up against the question of origin, primal cause, etc., if you are seeking any kind of depth in your understanding of life, and/or life's purpose. Some atheists claim they are content to believe there is no ultimate purpose to life, and yet seeking purpose in life is fairly universally fundamental to the human experience.