Are we saved with a "dead" faith?

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay...

Here's the question you just asked me...it doesn't say anything about never obeying the Word.

How can one have faith in the word, if they do not OBEY THE WORD??

I couldn't answer that question anyway because I don't "never" obey it, I just don't obey it enough. I also don't know anyone who never obeys the Word of God. I know lots of people who obey it incompletely.

I did not ask you about yourself. or anybody else.

No one is perfect. and I did not ask if everyone was perfect. that was not the context.

I asked you about the people james was talking about. He say they had NO WORK. ie, they never obeyed, even once.. (you do understand no works means zero, zilch, nada, not one. work was done by these people right? He said they were hearers not doers of the words, who had deceived themselves, How did they deceive themselves?

But regarding verse you want people to think is in the Bible but really isn't. Maybe you should just get a pencil and write that part about James saying they had faith into the Bible yourself. Assign it a verse number and send it to me.

Show me the verse where james said they did one work?

Did James did not say they obeyed in these areas, but not in those areas?

Did James say they obeyed sometimes, but not all the time?

Did James say they had words in the beginning, but fell from faith because they stopped trusting God completely?

Where are these works these people did to prove they had an ounce of real faith?

maybe you can finally answer my question.. and tell me how a person who claims to have faith in someone, but NEVER DOES A THING THEY SAY, has faith in that person.

Or keep dodging the question. proving you do not have an answer

 

[know1]

I told you this is not a healing discussion.

And you can not read what I have posted and claim I say that the only work is a work of salvation. that is nonsense.

If you want to talk about healing, open a thread (as if there are not enough already)

I posted Hebrews 11. And you want to lie about what I believe.

Okay, but you dodge the part concerning God's will.
The thread is about faith, does God's will have anything to do with this thread?
You said, if it is His will that you die then you will die, but if it isn't then you won't. As though you have no say in the matter.
Is that correct?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, it is not about healing. It is however about faith, and when I last looked, those who got healed, did so by their faith.
Jesus said, "according to your faith, be it done unto you".
Didn't God make any other promises to those who believe other than for salvation?
You mean, once we get saved, that's it, we're on our own, and we have no say in the matter?
So answer me this?
If you didn't know that God would save you when you believed in Him, would you call that faith? Was there any confidence or trust in God, to do what He said in His word?
The things you quoted in Hebrews 11 have nothing to do with salvation.
Yet when it comes to anything outside salvation, you can't use any of the faith that you use to explain what faith is.
They all had confidence in God, you on the other hand, have no idea what God's will is outside salvation, therefore you can have absolutely no confidence that God will do anything for you.
Did Rahab seek God's will for God to justify her?
How can you tell someone they don't know what faith is, without hesitation, and can't see how contradictory you are to the whole subject.

Show me where I said people have faith only to get saved, then never do another thing.

Can you??

Heb 11 answers your questions..

You can not read heb 11 and come up with your conclusion about what I believe.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay, but you dodge the part concerning God's will.
The thread is about faith, does God's will have anything to do with this thread?
You said, if it is His will that you die then you will die, but if it isn't then you won't. As though you have no say in the matter.
Is that correct?

So I can force Gods hand?

When I pray for healing of anyone, I pray in Gods will.. Not mine

Many have gotten healed.. Many have not..

Is God not faithful because he did not heal everyone we prayed for?

Your not making any sense at all..

If God healed everytime we prayed, there would be people from his day that are still alive..

 

[Babylonisfalling]

It's your turn.
And we all have Bibles anyway so it's really not necessary, James never said what you're claiming he said.
And even if someone didn't have a Bible it's obvious that you would have posted the verse long ago if it existed.
Sorry this is so difficult for you. Just calm down in the future and think before you start claiming things that can so easily be proven to be false.

I think I'll allow you the last word because that's obviously the most important thing on the planet for you.

 

[Utah]

The post I was responding to said

My point was the he was addressing a kind of non issue since nobody claimed that God had to see the works.

But what do you think, are we saved with a dead faith?

Thank you for clarifying. Not that you had to but I'm grateful.

I believe unequivocally that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. But you refer to dead faith, not faith, therefore I have to say no, dead faith is no faith at all so there is no salvation in it; like believing salvation can be obtained through means other than Jesus, which it can not. However, I do not believe works is required to maintain our salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's your turn.
And we all have Bibles anyway so it's really not necessary, James never said what you're claiming he said.
And even if someone didn't have a Bible it's obvious that you would have posted the verse long ago if it existed.
Sorry this is so difficult for you. Just calm down in the future and think before you start claiming things that can so easily be proven to be false.

I think I'll allow you the last word because that's obviously the most important thing on the planet for you.

I am done,

If you can not answer my question. then just say so.. These games get old..

 

[cgaviria]

You are not saved if you don't have have faith AND works. You need BOTH things.

 

[gotime]

Faith without works is nonsensical. Faith and works are one as it is written:

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

As there is no physical life when the body is without the spirit so also there is no spiritual life if faith is without works. in Fact it is not really faith at all.

 

[posthuman]

Okay, but you dodge the part concerning God's will.
The thread is about faith, does God's will have anything to do with this thread?
You said, if it is His will that you die then you will die, but if it isn't then you won't. As though you have no say in the matter.
Is that correct?

i don't believe that faith & God's will have an empty intersection.

And this is the will of him who sent me,
that I shall lose none of all those he has given me,
but raise them up at the last day.
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him
shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day
(John 6:39-40)​

isn't it His will is that we should believe - that we should have faith?

is it not so that God's will for me to stay or depart from this life is His to determine and to carry out?
i think, what you mean to say is that if we sin and flee from His will for us, for the works He set for us to do, that we can bring about our own deaths. but if i frustrate Him, isn't it His prerogative to show me mercy or to cut me short? what happened to Jonah, when He fled? when he prayed to die? when Elijah sought death, did the Lord give it to him, against God's own will for the man?
can i live if it's not His will? can i die if He would that i remain? how many of us deserve death, and are given grace instead? all​ of us, yes? amen!!
just as it's written "do not tempt the Lord" it's also written that those things are in His hand.
maybe i have "a say" in the matter, but if God disagrees with my opinion, i certainly won't be changing His mind.

My times are in your hands
(Psalm 31:15)

A person's days are determined;
you have decreed the number of his months
and have set limits he cannot exceed.
(Job 14:5)

Honor the God who holds in His hand your life and all your ways
(Daniel 5:23)
​

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Nobody says God has to see the works.
Other men don't have to see them either. In truth w're supposed to be discreet about works anyway.
The Bible says that without works faith is dead.

So....are we saved with a dead faith?

John 3:16
king James version(KJV)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

There Is nothing In that scripture that mentions works.

Would you agree that scripture interprets and harmonizes with scripture?

So then a dead faith does not save and I explained what james was saying.

I don't believe savation comes by faith + works.

 

[Utah]

You are not saved if you don't have have faith AND works. You need BOTH things.

Thankfully Jesus says otherwise.

 

[crossnote]

You are not saved if you don't have have faith AND works. You need BOTH things.

Again, how much works do you need til you are saved?
I see your formula as a certainty to doubt and despair.

 

[Babylonisfalling]

Again, how much works do you need til you are saved?
I see your formula as a certainty to doubt and despair.

If works are measured it would be done by God. No man could answer your question. I would guess it depends on what measure of works your capable of. The poor widow woman with 2 mites gave more than the wealthy folk who put in more money....but not by the standards of men.

And ANY amount of works by themselves wouldn't save. It's just that your faith would be dead if there were no works at all.

Are we saved with a faith that is dead?

 

[Babylonisfalling]

John 3:16
king James version(KJV)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

There Is nothing In that scripture that mentions works.<-----REALLY???

Would you agree that scripture interprets and harmonizes with scripture?

So then a dead faith does not save and I explained what james was saying.

I don't believe savation comes by faith + works.

We all know that James discusses works.

 

[james57]

We all know that James discusses works.

For we maintain a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law rom3:28

Would Paul have been speaking of a dead or alive faith in the above?

In your opinion, why did Paul write what he wrote and James wrote as hd did?

 

[Utah]

If grace is freely given to people who have faith in Jesus, but then grace is taken away if you don't do works, then grace was never freely given in the first place.

 

[crossnote]

If works are measured it would be done by God. No man could answer your question. I would guess it depends on what measure of works your capable of. The poor widow woman with 2 mites gave more than the wealthy folk who put in more money....but not by the standards of men.

And ANY amount of works by themselves wouldn't save. It's just that your faith would be dead if there were no works at all.

Are we saved with a faith that is dead?

true faith claims that the only works that save are His Works, it places no confidence in the flesh...

Romans 5:19 KJVS
[19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Philippians 3:3,9 KJVS
[3] For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. [9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

 

[BradC]

James 2:17
Faith without works is dead.

All that statement means is that faith without trusting God for what he has promised is a dead or inactive dormant faith. We are are justified by faith through the promise of the cross. We believe God as did Abraham and we act on what we believe because faithful is He who has promised. The work of faith is that we continue to believe God against everything and to not charge God foolishly, whom we have Job as well as Abraham as examples.

 

[Babylonisfalling]

We all know that James discusses works.

Sorry I misread your post and thought you meant there is nothing in Scripture that mentions works, rather than nothing in that particular Scripture that mentions works.

But still, there is Scripture that mentions "dead" faith based on the faith not having works.

So do you believe we can be saved with a dead faith?