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Just the way I have found to interpret scripture:
1 Holy Spirit
2 Holy Spirit
3 Holy Spirit
4 Holy Spirit
5 Holy Spirit
6 Holy Spirit
ect..............
I used to use all of those other things, and found that I was knowing a lot, but did not know God very well, well, really not at all. I used to have great wisdom, so I thought, but it was useless for helping others with their real troubles. Not to mention my troubles.
I think that I will rely on the Spirit of Christ for my understanding of the scriptures.
1 Holy Spirit
2 Holy Spirit
3 Holy Spirit
4 Holy Spirit
5 Holy Spirit
6 Holy Spirit
ect..............
I used to use all of those other things, and found that I was knowing a lot, but did not know God very well, well, really not at all. I used to have great wisdom, so I thought, but it was useless for helping others with their real troubles. Not to mention my troubles.
I think that I will rely on the Spirit of Christ for my understanding of the scriptures.
Actually, I don't fall back on these things. I ask the Spirit to open, and He hears me and opens. I don't have to resort to all of those methods to prove a point. I don't have any points. I let the Spirit open the scripture in the heart of the hearer, and they hear.
The only time I have to prove something is to those who have a great deal of bible knowledge. And usually, it is not a good result.
I have found that I have only one truth, and He is the living truth. I don't care much for doctrines myself. I know most of them, having been trained for years in the bible. I overcame that training, actually, the Father overcame that training, and now I have Him.
I am a very poor servant. I cannot defend anything. He does not need defended. I think in the end, Paul understood this. His testimony at the end of his life, "Jesus Christ came to save sinners, among whom I am chief."
Bless you friend,
vic
The only time I have to prove something is to those who have a great deal of bible knowledge. And usually, it is not a good result.
I have found that I have only one truth, and He is the living truth. I don't care much for doctrines myself. I know most of them, having been trained for years in the bible. I overcame that training, actually, the Father overcame that training, and now I have Him.
I am a very poor servant. I cannot defend anything. He does not need defended. I think in the end, Paul understood this. His testimony at the end of his life, "Jesus Christ came to save sinners, among whom I am chief."
Bless you friend,
vic
I did not think that you would believe me. Really, I did not believe it. But this is the truth of what I believe: one can have every doctrine perfectly, and believe them completely, and not know God. By the same token, one can have not one correct doctrine, not believe in anything but Jesus Christ, and in seeking to know Him, they will know Him. This I know about our Lord, if you want to know Him, He will reveal Himself to you. Hey, I did not really want to know Him, just enough to be saved, and He revealed Himself to me anyway, to my great shame.
How does what I wrote before equate to lack of spiritual discernment????
Many blessing,
How does what I wrote before equate to lack of spiritual discernment????
Many blessing,
I did not think you were accusing me. I am very sorry if I gave that impression. It was inadvertent. I really do not see a lack of spiritual discernment in others, and really all I have tried to do is put forth the Holy Spirit as our source of knowledge. I do understand knowledge from study. I just can no longer subscribe to it. If one feels that this is the way to learn of God, I cannot say that they are wrong, just ask that they consider the Spirit in this also.
My creed is simple, know the Father through Jesus Christ, by His Spirit, and want to know Him more each day. I can testify that if one does this, they will learn of Him, come to know Him, and be pleasing to Him. I do not believe that a single person has ever gotten so close to the Father that He has told them to stop. I believe that we all can become closer to Him than we are now. I know in my heart that whatever that takes, I am willing to do it to know Him, and the fellowship of His sufferings.
S
When we send our children to school, they are in school to be educated through being taught by an educator and to learn how to study the material they are given on various subjects and fields of study. We encourage them as parents to study and do their homework as a discipline in learning the knowledge given to them. Many times they struggle and have to go over things multiple times before they get it, but with hard work and discipline they learn to overcome those obstacles. Some have it easier than others because of their capacity to receive and understand that knowledge through a broader vocabulary and through a greater level of comprehension skills, which has to do with structural development and visual perception in the imaginations of the mind where we process information according to words (vocabulary) and images.
Remember when you first believed and you we taught the word of God or just read the scriptures, how difficult is was to understand what you were reading. For many of us it was a brand new field of study but we were hungry and excited because we wanted to know God and what He is like. When we heard the scriptures telling us about the love and mercy of God we responded with joy and eagerness to what we were hearing and received it into our hearts with no hesitation. This was our first love with the One who died and gave His life for us. We wanted to know more about Him and we still have this yearning every time we hear the word of God. We are built up and edified by every word of God and the Holy Spirit reveals that love in our heart that God has for us and the love we have for Him. Our love grows in knowledge and in judgment of the One who created all things and who is going to glorify us with Him in eternity.
We should never discourage any believer from hearing and studying the word of God for it is a good work. We are to provoke one another unto love and unto good works. The first work is to believe upon the Son. Secondly, we are to receive the love of God through His word that is revealed to us by the Holy Spirit. Thirdly, we are to reciprocate that love to God and then to others who are lost or do not know the love of God that was exhibited by Christ on the cross. Through all of these we are to grow in grace and knowledge of Christ, so that we will be fully equipped with the mind of Christ in this present evil world.
1 Sam 2:3 Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth: for the LORD is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.
Hos 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
Rom 10:1,2 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
1Cor 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
Remember when you first believed and you we taught the word of God or just read the scriptures, how difficult is was to understand what you were reading. For many of us it was a brand new field of study but we were hungry and excited because we wanted to know God and what He is like. When we heard the scriptures telling us about the love and mercy of God we responded with joy and eagerness to what we were hearing and received it into our hearts with no hesitation. This was our first love with the One who died and gave His life for us. We wanted to know more about Him and we still have this yearning every time we hear the word of God. We are built up and edified by every word of God and the Holy Spirit reveals that love in our heart that God has for us and the love we have for Him. Our love grows in knowledge and in judgment of the One who created all things and who is going to glorify us with Him in eternity.
We should never discourage any believer from hearing and studying the word of God for it is a good work. We are to provoke one another unto love and unto good works. The first work is to believe upon the Son. Secondly, we are to receive the love of God through His word that is revealed to us by the Holy Spirit. Thirdly, we are to reciprocate that love to God and then to others who are lost or do not know the love of God that was exhibited by Christ on the cross. Through all of these we are to grow in grace and knowledge of Christ, so that we will be fully equipped with the mind of Christ in this present evil world.
1 Sam 2:3 Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth: for the LORD is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.
Hos 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
Rom 10:1,2 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
1Cor 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
I don't see sound interpretation and listening to the Spirit to be opposed to one another. For example, it was only the Spirit who opened my eyes to the true nature of tithing and the fact that the new testament didn't really command it. It was also the Spirit who showed me the difference between divorce and "putting away". One thing the Spirit does is not only give new or different revelation but also reveal the flaws and fallacies in beliefs and doctrines which are otherwise popular in the wider church community. Spiritual gifts is one example. It's not spiritual or wise to ignore certain established facts like some people think the Spirit must always teach something contrary to traditional views, such as on the Trinity for example or unless it's new or different then it can't be from the Spirit. Usually a symptom of pentecostalism.
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I understand interpretation to be my attempt to understand what is being said. There are many methods of interpretation. Spiritual revelation is God's revealing to me, opening up my understanding, by His own power through the Spirit. The first may be right, but will never have the full effect of revelation, for the Spirit makes things real to us in a way that is never available through our efforts. This is what Paul was teaching by the Spirit in 1st Cor, chapter 2.
S
If a man says that the Spirit has taught him this and another man says the Spirit has taught him something contrary to what the first man claims he was taught, is there not a false spirit testifying of that which is contrary to sound doctrine? God has given us the written word to put to the test what is claimed to be of the Spirit. The spoken word that became the written word is the measuring rod that is used to prove all things and to try the spirits to see whether they are of God or not. The word of God is always the final authority on all matters of truth and the Holy Spirit will witness, testify and commend the truth of that authority.
The Spirit does not work independently of truth. If you are convinced through the Spirit that the gift of tongues is still given to the church and another does not and claims that they have ceased, what is the final authority on this matter? Is it our experience or the written word? Do we judge a matter of doctrine by experience of by faith? If you speak in tongues and say it was a gift given to you by the Spirit, is your own experience the final authority on the matter? If we used our own experience or the experience of others as the final authority to validate truth, truth would become subject to our experience of it and faith would be excluded.
Truth does not need experience to be truth no more than we need to experience the love of God to prove that God is love. God is love no matter if we experience His love or not and the authority of that love is not subject to our experience of it. We never experienced in the beginning when God laid the foundations of the heavens and the earth, but the authority of God that established them and put them in motion is final and we had absolutely nothing to do with any of it. The only way we can test doctrine is to mix faith with it and let God reveal His righteousness through it / Rom 1:17. Abraham elieved God and it was imputed unti him for righteousness.
Those that live in unbelief need a confirmation of a sign, the evidence of a miracle or the fulfillment of a promise to believe, but the just shall live by faith and the promises of God. A promise of God does not need to be fulfilled in order for us to live by faith in that promise. A promise from God is a promise not because it will fulfilled but because of the nature and trustworthiness of the One who made the promise. The final authority is this, it shall be as God has said / 2Chr 6:10, and let God be true and ever man a liar and hath He not said and shall He not do it / Num 23:19?
The Spirit does not work independently of truth. If you are convinced through the Spirit that the gift of tongues is still given to the church and another does not and claims that they have ceased, what is the final authority on this matter? Is it our experience or the written word? Do we judge a matter of doctrine by experience of by faith? If you speak in tongues and say it was a gift given to you by the Spirit, is your own experience the final authority on the matter? If we used our own experience or the experience of others as the final authority to validate truth, truth would become subject to our experience of it and faith would be excluded.
Truth does not need experience to be truth no more than we need to experience the love of God to prove that God is love. God is love no matter if we experience His love or not and the authority of that love is not subject to our experience of it. We never experienced in the beginning when God laid the foundations of the heavens and the earth, but the authority of God that established them and put them in motion is final and we had absolutely nothing to do with any of it. The only way we can test doctrine is to mix faith with it and let God reveal His righteousness through it / Rom 1:17. Abraham elieved God and it was imputed unti him for righteousness.
Those that live in unbelief need a confirmation of a sign, the evidence of a miracle or the fulfillment of a promise to believe, but the just shall live by faith and the promises of God. A promise of God does not need to be fulfilled in order for us to live by faith in that promise. A promise from God is a promise not because it will fulfilled but because of the nature and trustworthiness of the One who made the promise. The final authority is this, it shall be as God has said / 2Chr 6:10, and let God be true and ever man a liar and hath He not said and shall He not do it / Num 23:19?
S
Eph 4:10-15
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
If you look in verse 11 you will see the purpose of those that God has given to the church, with the intent and result to perfect (mature) the saints and edify (build up) the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God ... and be no more children tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine ... that we may grow up into Him in all things, which is the head, even Christ.
The problem is that many believers in this present age refuse to put themselves under those that God has given to the church and body of Christ. They are a member of Christ's body but are not functioning as one through the unity of the Spirit and never are able to come into the unity of the faith. They are always challenging those that God has given to the church with their own understanding and do not humble themselves to receive from those that God has given to preach and teach the word and doctrine. They commend themselves and compare themselves with those that God has given, which is not wise / 2Cor 10:12. There have been some that have come to this site and have done this and been critical of those that God has raised up for the church and instead of becoming wise they became fools.
The unity of the faith we grow into, which is given to edify the body of Christ, points to sound doctrine and the supply of the Spirit / Phil 1:19 to reveal Christ as the head. Without this unity of the faith we have no fellowship with Christ as our head and our relationship to the members of His body is cut off from the supply that comes from every joint / Eph 4:16. We are independent believers who are saved but never become an active participant in a living organism that was redeemed and regenerated as the one new man, who is born of the Spirit and the water of God's word and incorruptible seed to function as one body / Eph 5:26, Titus 3:5, 1Pt 1:23.
Read Psalm 133 as it relate to this kind of unity.
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
If you look in verse 11 you will see the purpose of those that God has given to the church, with the intent and result to perfect (mature) the saints and edify (build up) the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God ... and be no more children tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine ... that we may grow up into Him in all things, which is the head, even Christ.
The problem is that many believers in this present age refuse to put themselves under those that God has given to the church and body of Christ. They are a member of Christ's body but are not functioning as one through the unity of the Spirit and never are able to come into the unity of the faith. They are always challenging those that God has given to the church with their own understanding and do not humble themselves to receive from those that God has given to preach and teach the word and doctrine. They commend themselves and compare themselves with those that God has given, which is not wise / 2Cor 10:12. There have been some that have come to this site and have done this and been critical of those that God has raised up for the church and instead of becoming wise they became fools.
The unity of the faith we grow into, which is given to edify the body of Christ, points to sound doctrine and the supply of the Spirit / Phil 1:19 to reveal Christ as the head. Without this unity of the faith we have no fellowship with Christ as our head and our relationship to the members of His body is cut off from the supply that comes from every joint / Eph 4:16. We are independent believers who are saved but never become an active participant in a living organism that was redeemed and regenerated as the one new man, who is born of the Spirit and the water of God's word and incorruptible seed to function as one body / Eph 5:26, Titus 3:5, 1Pt 1:23.
Read Psalm 133 as it relate to this kind of unity.
enjoyed this thread. Found myself within cc being challenged in my biblical knowledge for I have the spirit but spent little time in Gods word getting to know the Lord. I used my excuses of not being great at scripture recall but a couple on here would not hear it and took me to task in my belief that as long as I had the Holy Spirit I was good to go. In the last year of studying God in his word I have grown in my faith & in the Holy Spirit in leaps and bounds. The key to the scripture is in prayer for discernment given by the Holy Spirit as we study & reflect on Gods word and yes, start chewing on the meat! This doesnt diminish the existance or power of the Holy Spirit in our walk as believers it enhances our relationship as we come to know God's will and testify to the Lost that they may be saved. Conviction comes upon us when we are ready to hear. It is the responsibility of those in clergy in the body of Christ to be able to look upon their individuals and assess their level of readyness to hear words they need to hear to get them deeper into the Lord and set apart from their worldly ways. With this is the teaching of sound doctrine which does not discredit the Holy Spirit for if it did then you'd be dealing with a lieing or deceiving spirit & be in deception instead of in line with the Lord. I'd say if the Holy Spirit instructs or promotes someone in a way that is contrary to the word then this would not be the Holy spirit but a deceiving spirit. How do I know? After praying for discernment I feed on the word of God and seek clarification from my pastor when I'm in confusion. Knowing God through his word is not a labour of works but about relationship for me. I want to know everything I possibly can about my Lord that I can be of service to him in the salvation of lost souls. My salvation is already realized in Christ so Gods word is not about me and what I can do to earn... It is about an amazing desire to know our Lord who I love so very much. Bless the Lord oh my soul!