Are You Pro-Life?

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Are you against capital punishment (pro-life)?

  • Total voters
    33
D

Depleted

Guest
#181
#181
KimPetras said:
Let's assume it is very very very rare. Out of all executed prisoners, 1/1000 were innocently executed (which we know isn't as rare). Does that life not matter to you or society? Do you just say to the family, "sorry, we weren't 100% certain he was guilty and we killed him anyway"? That isn't sorrow if you'd do the same exact thing again. If 1/1000 unborn children were aborted, wouldn't that still be a travesty?

I don't hold it against you that you think your judicial system is perfect (you said you specifically don't think that happens today). I don't even think the biggest pro capital punishment people would agree with your claim that it's perfect now.
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Let's go with your I-was-fully-trained-in-the-religion-of-humanism scenario and say 1/1000 are innocent. Why do you persist in protecting the 999 for the sake of the one? At the very least those 999 killed at least one person each. If your country is anything like the States, then that number is usually at least 2 people, not at all unlikely three or more. And, because you saved them from execution, more than likely they will kill again. So, your logic is we save the one "probably" innocent by letting the other 999 free to kill again. Brilliant!

I'm all for the appeal system to be updated now to protect the innocent. (DNA testing has improved in the last ten years, so it should be an automatic that the crime scene tests are done again with newer equipment and in-a-rush, when the criminal is getting close to execution date. I also believe the judicial system ought to update what must happen to start a new trial. And I really do like the double-indemnity aspect of the law of our country, because your country has "intentional murder" only be punished with a mere 15 years, if not "horrendous" -- apparently, I can get away with murder in your country as long as I do it in the right style) BUT, I'm not ever going to believe God was wrong about killing murderers. I prefer his law. At least we're not warehousing people that way. There were no prisons back then. There were cities of refuge -- a good place to live for manslaughter cases and for those who are at risk of being killed by the victim's family after raping a woman/girl in that family.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#182
#182
KimPetras said:
No........
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Then you already know God is for killing murderers. What's the problem? Or is this, "I don't like the way God handles this, so I'll ignore it?"
 
santuzza

santuzza

Senior Member
#183
Feb 12, 2013
1,609
38
48
#183
OP,

Clearly you and I are never going to see eye-to-eye with this. Okay, we'll agree to disagree. But I would still like to know what you suggest as restitution for a murder victim's family and friends. If the convicted murderer lives out his/her life in prison, what restitution is made to the victim's family/friends? How do these innocent victims obtain justice while having to live in fear that the murderer may escape prison or receive parole?
 
K

KimPetras

Guest
#184
#184
Depleted said:
Let's go with your I-was-fully-trained-in-the-religion-of-humanism scenario and say 1/1000 are innocent. Why do you persist in protecting the 999 for the sake of the one? At the very least those 999 killed at least one person each. If your country is anything like the States, then that number is usually at least 2 people, not at all unlikely three or more. And, because you saved them from execution, more than likely they will kill again. So, your logic is we save the one "probably" innocent by letting the other 999 free to kill again. Brilliant!
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Do you have any evidence to suggest that if you put someone in life in prison they are "more than likely" going to kill again? Is that what happens to people on death row in the US? This sounds like another myth, just like how it's "more expensive" to keep someone alive in prison than it is to execute them.
 
K

KimPetras

Guest
#185
#185
Depleted said:
I'd rather be put to death than spend 20-50 years of my life constantly terrified of the people around me or have to make the choice to kill them to save my own life or to stop being raped.
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How is putting someone in prison for life "protecting" them? Did you not just say in your previous post that you'd rather be put to death? It's easier for you. Now that I argue for life in prison rather, which is more severe in your opinion, in an effort to save the potentially innocent, you're saying it's "protecting"? Either life in prison is worse than capital punishment or it's not. Why are you flip flopping?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#186
#186
KimPetras said:
Do you have any evidence to suggest that if you put someone in life in prison they are "more than likely" going to kill again? Is that what happens to people on death row in the US? This sounds like another myth, just like how it's "more expensive" to keep someone alive in prison than it is to execute them.
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Yes its a proven fact that killers...kill people
 
K

KimPetras

Guest
#187
#187
santuzza said:
OP,

Clearly you and I are never going to see eye-to-eye with this. Okay, we'll agree to disagree. But I would still like to know what you suggest as restitution for a murder victim's family and friends. If the convicted murderer lives out his/her life in prison, what restitution is made to the victim's family/friends? How do these innocent victims obtain justice while having to live in fear that the murderer may escape prison or receive parole?
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Since capital punishment is so rare, are you indirectly saying that the people who aren't put to death "escape justice"? Are you saying if the potentially guilty person isn't put to death, but rather sentenced to life in prison, the family doesn't receive any restitution whatsoever?

There is nothing that will adequately "restitute" for the loss of an innocent victim. Even if you knew who did it with 100% certainty, that isn't restitution. Vengeance and restitution aren't synonymous. It was in the Mosiac law, but not since Christ completed the old law and brought a new one.

I think the best way to bring restitution is to take one's life away, not by killing, but by locking the person in prison forever.

Question: Do they really give murderers parole in the US?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
K

KimPetras

Guest
#188
#188
How does the state restitute the victim's families of people they wrongfully executed? No one asks that question... I did, but no one suggested anything be done. I guess a simple shrug of the shoulders and a, "We'll get it right next time." is all that is required.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#189
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#189
KimPetras said:
Question: Do they really give murderers parole in the US?
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No they just make administrative mistakes and turn them loose upon society. They are looking for a guy right now that was released by mistake.

In Jesus time if a Roman soldier allowed a prisoner to escape he had to serve the rest of the prisoners time. How would that work if the lawyers representing criminals had to go to prison if they got a guilty man off and he committed a second murder?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#190
#190
KimPetras said:
How does the state restitute the victim's families of people they wrongfully executed? No one asks that question... I did, but no one suggested anything be done. I guess a simple shrug of the shoulders and a, "We'll get it right next time." is all that is required.
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Yes its called the criminal justice system ..and the problem we have is too many criminals not getting convicted for their crimes.. We need to be much more harsh with these kinds of people.
 
K

KimPetras

Guest
#191
#191
notuptome said:
No they just make administrative mistakes and turn them loose upon society. They are looking for a guy right now that was released by mistake.

In Jesus time if a Roman soldier allowed a prisoner to escape he had to serve the rest of the prisoners time. How would that work if the lawyers representing criminals had to go to prison if they got a guilty man off and he committed a second murder?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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That sounds more of a prison/administrative incompetence than an epidemic of prisoners escaping and serial killing everyone.
 
K

KimPetras

Guest
#192
#192
What I respect the most about the American justice system is they have two philosophies that separate them from other states.

1.) Innocent until proven guilty.
2.) They would rather let a guilty person free than convict an innocent person.

It's not that your country "protects" the guilty, they just put a higher premium on the innocent.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#193
#193
KimPetras said:
What I respect the most about the American justice system is they have two philosophies that separate them from other states.

1.) Innocent until proven guilty.
2.) They would rather let a guilty person free than convict an innocent person.

It's not that your country "protects" the guilty, they just put a higher premium on the innocent.
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Yes and that's why your thread is just silly and kinda annoying from someone that is clearly ignorant of and has no voice in our process.
 
K

KimPetras

Guest
#194
#194
Mitspa said:
Yes and that's why your thread is just silly and kinda annoying from someone that is clearly ignorant of and has no voice in our process.
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First I'm Russian. Now I have no voice in the process. You have no idea if I'm an American citizen, or a German citizen, or a dual citizen. Yet, I'm the ignorant one. lol If it's annoying, no one is forcing you to post here. This will be the last response to you. You clearly aren't wanting to discuss but make assumptions and attack anyone that has a different idea or belief.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#195
#195
Its still annoying :) Don't I have the right to be annoyed? Ok young lady...its your thread ..God Bless
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#196
#196
KimPetras said:
What I respect the most about the American justice system is they have two philosophies that separate them from other states.

1.) Innocent until proven guilty.
2.) They would rather let a guilty person free than convict an innocent person.

It's not that your country "protects" the guilty, they just put a higher premium on the innocent.
Click to expand...
Well I can tell you that is not exactly true as I have been involved with the system and done prison ministry.

They arrest people here just on allegations made on them without any proof proven, then they take and hold them under a bond. If the person can not make bond they hold them tell their court date, which would keep a person still detained without ever being proven guilty yet !!!

They also have gotten away from point number to at times as investigating detectives care more about baggering a witness especially if they are weak and scared to get a confession out of them even if they are innocent instead of actually going about and doing their job to discover and acquire evidence.

We just had a incident here in the state of Missouri awhile back where two men were arrested for murder, the detective preyed on the weaker drug using man and brow beated a false confession out of him.

The only evidence provided in the case was two sets of finger prints that matched neither one of the suspects, yet the two men were found guilty solely on the testimony of the one's false confession.

The other man fought for 10 years while in prison and filed appeals tell it was finally held in front of the appellate court which was his last chance, they final found him not guilty on lack of evidence and released him. The other man is still in prison and fighting to be released as well !!!
 
K

KimPetras

Guest
#197
#197
KennethC said:
Well I can tell you that is not exactly true as I have been involved with the system and done prison ministry.

They arrest people here just on allegations made on them without any proof proven, then they take and hold them under a bond. If the person can not make bond they hold them tell their court date, which would keep a person still detained without ever being proven guilty yet !!!

They also have gotten away from point number to at times as investigating detectives care more about baggering a witness especially if they are weak and scared to get a confession out of them even if they are innocent instead of actually going about and doing their job to discover and acquire evidence.

We just had a incident here in the state of Missouri awhile back where two men were arrested for murder, the detective preyed on the weaker drug using man and brow beated a false confession out of him.

The only evidence provided in the case was two sets of finger prints that matched neither one of the suspects, yet the two men were found guilty solely on the testimony of the one's false confession.

The other man fought for 10 years while in prison and filed appeals tell it was finally held in front of the appellate court which was his last chance, they final found him not guilty on lack of evidence and released him. The other man is still in prison and fighting to be released as well !!!
Click to expand...

My heart breaks for those innocently locked away. Thank you for sharing. :(
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#198
#198
KimPetras said:
Do you have any evidence to suggest that if you put someone in life in prison they are "more than likely" going to kill again? Is that what happens to people on death row in the US? This sounds like another myth, just like how it's "more expensive" to keep someone alive in prison than it is to execute them.
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Here is the thing that the system's we live under should not change the stance we are to have in Christ !!!

Jesus said we are to show love, mercy, and forgiveness to all people, and He also said to "do good" and pray for our enemies.

If we are not living by those principles that the Lord commanded we are not living by what He said !!!

People want to stick to their personal standards to make hatred toward some acceptable, and to give them the right to carry out vengeance on another when Jesus said to leave that to Him !!!
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#199
#199
Ro 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
 
K

KimPetras

Guest
#200
#200
KennethC said:
Here is the thing that the system's we live under should not change the stance we are to have in Christ !!!

Jesus said we are to show love, mercy, and forgiveness to all people, and He also said to "do good" and pray for our enemies.

If we are not living by those principles that the Lord commanded we are not living by what He said !!!

People want to stick to their personal standards to make hatred toward some acceptable, and to give them the right to carry out vengeance on another when Jesus said to leave that to Him !!!
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I completely agree!

I just wish that when Christ talks about "love, mercy, compassion" and "sword", that "sword" doesn't overshadow the rest.
 
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