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You are one screwed up individual. I have a mother who I have to care for, a wife, kids. It takes time and effort but I love them deeply, so if it helps them I do not care. When I stop caring I begin to count the cost. There are always compromises but I do not go around saying, this is of the flesh this is of the Spirit. I go, how am I meeting the need, how much can I love and share. If something comes up about the Lord or faith or something good I just share, and try and keep everything level and open.
And I cannot do anything I am doing, I can only do it in Christ alone. How as a christian can it be any other way?
You talk as if there is a discussion involved. You are not very good at this walk are you? Very early on you know that if you are doing things for the wrong reasons it just dries up and you have no energy for it.
And I cannot do anything I am doing, I can only do it in Christ alone. How as a christian can it be any other way?
You talk as if there is a discussion involved. You are not very good at this walk are you? Very early on you know that if you are doing things for the wrong reasons it just dries up and you have no energy for it.
Jesus comes first...He is the Alpha and Omega of our faith....I pointed out the scripture that said to point to Christ and not to the traditions of men.....like this one again....scriptures are not an end to themselves...
John 5:39-40 (NASB)
[SUP]39 [/SUP] "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
[SUP]40 [/SUP] and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
John 5:39-40 (NASB)
[SUP]39 [/SUP] "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
[SUP]40 [/SUP] and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
Ah ok, so in 'knowing' Him, Scripture comes first as you just illustrated. 
The problem with the phrase the "tradition of men" is grace7x77 with his lens translates 90% of scripture into the tradition of men even when God is speaking.
So I have zero confidence that what he is quoting is actually what he means.
I quoted simple realities about the emotional reaction of people from their lives and the problems this creates.
This was the "tradition of men" and "philosophy" until the next day when he said this was part of transformation in the sanctification of the flesh. So I have lost faith that anything is sensible or consistent or even he knows what he is talking about.
So I have zero confidence that what he is quoting is actually what he means.
I quoted simple realities about the emotional reaction of people from their lives and the problems this creates.
This was the "tradition of men" and "philosophy" until the next day when he said this was part of transformation in the sanctification of the flesh. So I have lost faith that anything is sensible or consistent or even he knows what he is talking about.
And I'm pointing out that without the facts of Scripture we won't come into intimate relationship with Jesus...first things first.
The Pharisees knew about the Scriptures that pointed to Jesus but they wouldn't come to Him. Some don't even know the Scriptures to even come to Jesus...they are off into some New Age mysticism following a new age jesus.
The Pharisees knew about the Scriptures that pointed to Jesus but they wouldn't come to Him. Some don't even know the Scriptures to even come to Jesus...they are off into some New Age mysticism following a new age jesus.
okie dokie..I still say Jesus comes first before scriptures...Jesus has appeared to many people without any scripture....I could fill this thread with videos of people that Jesus came to and they knew no scripture.....after we come to Him..then the Holy Spirit will use scripture to continue to reveal Him...
...my point was that the "facts" we think are true....once we truly "know" Him....those "facts" can change as the Holy Spirit reveals Jesus to us through the scripture...because sometimes our "facts" were in fact just a religious tradition from men...
Here is an example of the disciples not knowing about Christ is the scriptures..even though they did know "facts"..
Luke 24:44-45 (NASB)
[SUP]44 [/SUP] Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."
[SUP]45 [/SUP] Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
...my point was that the "facts" we think are true....once we truly "know" Him....those "facts" can change as the Holy Spirit reveals Jesus to us through the scripture...because sometimes our "facts" were in fact just a religious tradition from men...
Here is an example of the disciples not knowing about Christ is the scriptures..even though they did know "facts"..
Luke 24:44-45 (NASB)
[SUP]44 [/SUP] Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."
[SUP]45 [/SUP] Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
T
I've been followin a recent seminar lately about the Holy Spirit that I find fascinatin....now, takin from what I've been learnin on there and kinda just listenin to the interactions I'm wonderin if he may just be right... Personally, he caught me dead on........so I ask a question, in your prayer life and through out your day, how often and how much do you speak to the Holy Spirit... AND.. Do you truly realize who he is and what he can do?.... I ain't tryin ta start nothin it's just a question for thought...
G
Doctrine is an intimate knowledge of Christ. A personal relationship with the creator through His word.
From my experience, we can't just sit and pray and never open His word to get to know Him. The majority of us are going to have to make choices and give up some of our time and study. For those trapped on an island or do not have access to His word I am sure the Lord provides.
From my experience, we can't just sit and pray and never open His word to get to know Him. The majority of us are going to have to make choices and give up some of our time and study. For those trapped on an island or do not have access to His word I am sure the Lord provides.
Your arguments always remind me of Irenaeus' writings...
But, again, when we refer them to that tradition which originates from the apostles, [and] which is preserved by means of the succession of presbyters in the Churches, they object to tradition, saying that they themselves are wiser not merely than the presbyters, but even than the apostles, because they have discovered the unadulterated truth. For [they maintain] that the apostles intermingled the things of the law with the words of the Saviour; and that not the apostles alone, but even the Lord Himself, spoke as at one time from the Demiurge, at another from the intermediate place, and yet again from the Pleroma, but that they themselves, indubitably, unsulliedly, and purely, have knowledge of the hidden mystery: this is, indeed, to blaspheme their Creator after a most impudent manner! It comes to this, therefore, that these men do now consent neither to Scripture nor to tradition.
Such are the adversaries with whom we have to deal, my very dear friend, endeavouring like slippery serpents to escape at all points. Where-fore they must be opposed at all points, if per-chance, by cutting off their retreat, we may succeed in turning them back to the truth. For, though it is not an easy thing for a soul under the influence of error to repent, yet, on the other hand, it is not altogether impossible to escape from error when the truth is brought alongside it.
Irenaeus - Adversus Haereses, Book 3, Chapter 2
Romans 10
[SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Can't say I've known anyone with any reliability that has met Jesus in person recently. It's a sad day in Christendom when scripture isn't sufficient for hearing the Word.
But, again, when we refer them to that tradition which originates from the apostles, [and] which is preserved by means of the succession of presbyters in the Churches, they object to tradition, saying that they themselves are wiser not merely than the presbyters, but even than the apostles, because they have discovered the unadulterated truth. For [they maintain] that the apostles intermingled the things of the law with the words of the Saviour; and that not the apostles alone, but even the Lord Himself, spoke as at one time from the Demiurge, at another from the intermediate place, and yet again from the Pleroma, but that they themselves, indubitably, unsulliedly, and purely, have knowledge of the hidden mystery: this is, indeed, to blaspheme their Creator after a most impudent manner! It comes to this, therefore, that these men do now consent neither to Scripture nor to tradition.
Such are the adversaries with whom we have to deal, my very dear friend, endeavouring like slippery serpents to escape at all points. Where-fore they must be opposed at all points, if per-chance, by cutting off their retreat, we may succeed in turning them back to the truth. For, though it is not an easy thing for a soul under the influence of error to repent, yet, on the other hand, it is not altogether impossible to escape from error when the truth is brought alongside it.
Irenaeus - Adversus Haereses, Book 3, Chapter 2
Romans 10
[SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Can't say I've known anyone with any reliability that has met Jesus in person recently. It's a sad day in Christendom when scripture isn't sufficient for hearing the Word.
G
Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father. His enemies are not his footstool at this moment......."sit at my right hand UNTIL I make your enemies your footstool."
Everything, everything and everything is tested by the word or verified through the word. Jesus Christ does not personally come to some people. He comes to them through His word.
If everything is to be verified through the Word.................that means everything we need is already in His word.
It is why we see the Holy Spirit as active. Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father and The Holy Spirit testifies of Jesus Christ............through His word.
Everything, everything and everything is tested by the word or verified through the word. Jesus Christ does not personally come to some people. He comes to them through His word.
If everything is to be verified through the Word.................that means everything we need is already in His word.
It is why we see the Holy Spirit as active. Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father and The Holy Spirit testifies of Jesus Christ............through His word.
C
I think advancing is a little more than doctrine. I think advancing is obeying God and doctrine has a lot to do with discipline. Are you going to use it? There are a lot of people who talk but do you do it? Do we do good works and do we love other people?
The Westminster Confession of Faith (1647) by Various | Reformed Theology Articles at Ligonier.org
Hebrews 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
If you are doing God's will and if you are saved, the helper (the Holy Spirit) will not just lead you into the whole truth but He will speak scripture to you because He breathes it.
All scripture (all writings God breathed) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Hebrews 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
Christian maturity is Hebrews 5:12-14.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/heb/5/1/s_1138001
I believe it is also keeping yourself pure so that you have a witness.
James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
The Westminster Confession of Faith (1647) by Various | Reformed Theology Articles at Ligonier.org
Hebrews 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
If you are doing God's will and if you are saved, the helper (the Holy Spirit) will not just lead you into the whole truth but He will speak scripture to you because He breathes it.
All scripture (all writings God breathed) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Hebrews 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
Christian maturity is Hebrews 5:12-14.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/heb/5/1/s_1138001
I believe it is also keeping yourself pure so that you have a witness.
James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
People tend to through around tradition all the time like it is a bad thing and use it as a blanket term for anything they disagree with. When Jesus was talking about tradition to the Pharisees, he was talking about those who made void the Word of God for the sake of their man-made tradition.
Those who use this as a blanket term are really doing the same thing. Any set of practices or beliefs they cling to are in fact a tradition and many times they use it to overthrow the Word of God, very much like the Pharisees. They use it as a means of attack against anyone who disagrees with them.
The entire church is dependent on tradition that was given by God, taught by Jesus, and passed on to the Apostles to the church. These traditions are in compliance with sound doctrine/teaching/instructions that are required to walk upright and without error in the faith given to us.
Rather than depend on some mystical Gnostic idea of obtaining knowledge, why can't we just adhere to the sound teachings of Jesus and the Apostles laid out clearly in scripture for our benefit? Why do we have to have all of these bizarre stories of visions and dreams and why does our faith have to be validated by some unconfirmible miracle or sign?
I think it's important that we retain our traditional roots to the first century church and the Apostles and Jesus.
Those who use this as a blanket term are really doing the same thing. Any set of practices or beliefs they cling to are in fact a tradition and many times they use it to overthrow the Word of God, very much like the Pharisees. They use it as a means of attack against anyone who disagrees with them.
The entire church is dependent on tradition that was given by God, taught by Jesus, and passed on to the Apostles to the church. These traditions are in compliance with sound doctrine/teaching/instructions that are required to walk upright and without error in the faith given to us.
Rather than depend on some mystical Gnostic idea of obtaining knowledge, why can't we just adhere to the sound teachings of Jesus and the Apostles laid out clearly in scripture for our benefit? Why do we have to have all of these bizarre stories of visions and dreams and why does our faith have to be validated by some unconfirmible miracle or sign?
I think it's important that we retain our traditional roots to the first century church and the Apostles and Jesus.
I dont know how someone might separate the words of Jesus Christ from Christ since the words of Christ were God the Fathers words we were to hear. The word Jesus had spoken John 12:48 would be that which judges the one that receives neither him or his words.
For example, God testifies through Moses here of Him
Duet 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee,
and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. (Acts 7:37)
Even as Jesus had said,
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
He spake by God's commandment, His words are of great importance (as is noted in Moses)
And concerning his words He continues,
Duet 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words
which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
Confirmed also by the Apostles
Acts 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel,
A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me;
him shall ye hear.
Jesus also confirming what Moses wrote of him
John 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
And according to the same written in Duet 18:18-19 Jesus says
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him:
the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
As Jesus again confirms the words he spoke were given him (and then to them)
John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them,
and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
Then he prays for them who received His words
John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me;
for they are thine. (John 8:47)
John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words
But he does not pray for them alone
John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
And when others receive the same, they do write saying,
1 Thes 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
The gospel is the power of God unto salavtion to them that believe.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Being ashamed of me and of my words are shown equally
Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
His words are what we have heard which should abide in us and we also will continue in the Son and the Father
1 John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. (2 John 1:9)
Not to be ashamed of him and his words that the Son of man be not be ashamed of them, John says,
1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
So if we love Jesus (we will keep his words) not separate Jesus from his words
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not inthe doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. (1 John 2:24)
As Jesus said them, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. John 7:16
And again,
John 17:8a For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; (Duet 18:19)
and they have received them
And Hebrews, giving the more earnest heed to the things we have heard
Heb 2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. (See Heb 2:1-4)
Just seems to put equal weight on Him (the Christ, the Word made flesh) and His words (He spake by commandment) and yet the word that He (the Word) had spoken would be that which would judge them.
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I'll stick with the words of Jesus...Jesus is perfect theology!..scripture has the final say in our lives concerning any doctrine...
.you seemed to miss my statement which I will give again for you below...I love how some people "twist" what is being said...but it's to be expected...it happens on a regular basis....but it's ok......
" after we come to Him..then the Holy Spirit will use scripture to continue to reveal Him..."
In case you also missed the point I was getting at...I will post that again for you below...it is in post #27
...my point was that the "facts" we think are true....once we truly "know" Him....those "facts" can change as the Holy Spirit reveals Jesus to us through the scripture...because sometimes our "facts" were in fact just a religious tradition from men...
.you seemed to miss my statement which I will give again for you below...I love how some people "twist" what is being said...but it's to be expected...it happens on a regular basis....but it's ok....
.." after we come to Him..then the Holy Spirit will use scripture to continue to reveal Him..."
In case you also missed the point I was getting at...I will post that again for you below...it is in post #27
...my point was that the "facts" we think are true....once we truly "know" Him....those "facts" can change as the Holy Spirit reveals Jesus to us through the scripture...because sometimes our "facts" were in fact just a religious tradition from men...
There are literally dozens of videos with testimonies of people meeting Jesus ( with no knowledge of scripture ) now after He ascended to the Father ( Paul met Him too ).....now just to put the "twisters" of words to bed...these people need to be searching the scriptures daily to see if what is being told to them is true after meeting Jesus...I have written many times about the importance of being Berean-like and backing everything up with scripture.
Jesus loves people and He does anything He wants to make Himself known to them....He is doing amazing things because of His great love!
[video=youtube;Dd5T41ThPo4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd5T41ThPo4[/video]
Jesus loves people and He does anything He wants to make Himself known to them....He is doing amazing things because of His great love!
[video=youtube;Dd5T41ThPo4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd5T41ThPo4[/video]
It is obvious some know Jesus outside of scripture, and their view is superior to scripture or any human teacher.
Now I would agree knowing Jesus is everything, but this is defined in the words Jesus spoke, all of them. It is simply not good enough to dismiss most of them as not applicable to believers today, because Jesus himself said "My words are eternal."
Whatever you think your theology or ideas are, if you ideas contradict this, your experiences are not authoritative. People can have hallucinations, hear voices, be convinced sincerely of particular points of view, but if they contradict scripture they need to give way. Believers experience is littered with people who have visions, who share, who say lots of things and are convinced they are from the Lord, yet do not come true, and fail. So they were wrong.
I have had the same experience myself, so know how flawed I can be. This is why we need to test everything and be careful. But in the current spiritual climate testing is seen as being evil and wrong, and questioning as being an evil spirit.
Do not quench the Spirit. Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good, reject every kind of evil.
1 Thess 5:20-22
Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves. Each one should test their own actions.
Gal 6:2-4
Now I would agree knowing Jesus is everything, but this is defined in the words Jesus spoke, all of them. It is simply not good enough to dismiss most of them as not applicable to believers today, because Jesus himself said "My words are eternal."
Whatever you think your theology or ideas are, if you ideas contradict this, your experiences are not authoritative. People can have hallucinations, hear voices, be convinced sincerely of particular points of view, but if they contradict scripture they need to give way. Believers experience is littered with people who have visions, who share, who say lots of things and are convinced they are from the Lord, yet do not come true, and fail. So they were wrong.
I have had the same experience myself, so know how flawed I can be. This is why we need to test everything and be careful. But in the current spiritual climate testing is seen as being evil and wrong, and questioning as being an evil spirit.
Do not quench the Spirit. Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good, reject every kind of evil.
1 Thess 5:20-22
Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves. Each one should test their own actions.
Gal 6:2-4
To walk with Jesus
To walk with Jesus is to know love flowing from your heart out to others.
Gods heart is with these people
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
We are commanded to love as Jesus loved, to love our enemies, to love as the Father loves, for he brings blessing on the good and evil in this world.
The cross empowers us, the Holy Spirit indwells us and the power of sin, because we have communion with God, is broken.
Now the truly religious, who believe in original sin which can never be broken deny these words and believe they were only spoken as a joke to emphasis failure. So in the failure of being a slave to sin, they claim walking with no conscience, or awareness of sin, is true spirituality. But this is the religion of lawlessness, where nothing matters other than a mystic union.
To walk with Jesus is to know love flowing from your heart out to others.
Gods heart is with these people
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
We are commanded to love as Jesus loved, to love our enemies, to love as the Father loves, for he brings blessing on the good and evil in this world.
The cross empowers us, the Holy Spirit indwells us and the power of sin, because we have communion with God, is broken.
Now the truly religious, who believe in original sin which can never be broken deny these words and believe they were only spoken as a joke to emphasis failure. So in the failure of being a slave to sin, they claim walking with no conscience, or awareness of sin, is true spirituality. But this is the religion of lawlessness, where nothing matters other than a mystic union.