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Greetings JohnOne,
It is important to differentiate between the gathering of the church opposed to the Lord's return to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom, which are two separate events. The word "trumpet" is not unique to any one event, for there are different types of trumpets. That said, the event in 1 Cor.15:51-52 is referred to as the "last trumpet" while the one in Mt.24:31 is "a trumpet." And so what is happening is that you are mixing the two events of the gathering of the church with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.
The major problem with this is that, by making 1 Cor.15:51-52 synonymous with Mt.24:30-31 is that, it would put the living church through the entire wrath of God, (seals, trumpets and bowls) which we are not appointed to suffer (1 Thes.1:10, 5:9). But I know where the trumpet of 1 Thes.4:16 and 1 Cor.15:51-52 takes place and which is where the church is gathered. Please consider the following:
"After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this."
The event above is why we never see the word "Church" again from Rev.4 onward and that because Rev.4:1 is prophetic of the church being caught up.
It is important to differentiate between the gathering of the church opposed to the Lord's return to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom, which are two separate events. The word "trumpet" is not unique to any one event, for there are different types of trumpets. That said, the event in 1 Cor.15:51-52 is referred to as the "last trumpet" while the one in Mt.24:31 is "a trumpet." And so what is happening is that you are mixing the two events of the gathering of the church with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.
The major problem with this is that, by making 1 Cor.15:51-52 synonymous with Mt.24:30-31 is that, it would put the living church through the entire wrath of God, (seals, trumpets and bowls) which we are not appointed to suffer (1 Thes.1:10, 5:9). But I know where the trumpet of 1 Thes.4:16 and 1 Cor.15:51-52 takes place and which is where the church is gathered. Please consider the following:
"After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this."
The event above is why we never see the word "Church" again from Rev.4 onward and that because Rev.4:1 is prophetic of the church being caught up.
J
good stuff there thank you and bless you
1john 3:16-24This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
"
R
That is not an excuse for what many do on here though: To offend because "I am right and you are wrong,"
if you want a debate, there are thousands of other threads to do so in
if you want a debate, there are thousands of other threads to do so in
J
Matthew 16:18 AndG1161 I say alsoG2504 G3004 unto thee,G4671 ThatG3754 thouG4771 artG1488 Peter,G4074 andG2532 uponG1909 thisG5026 rockG4073 I will buildG3618 myG3450 church;G1577 andG2532 the gatesG4439 of hellG86 shall notG3756 prevail againstG2729 it.G846
Peter,G4074
G4074 Πέτρος Petros pet'-ros Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle: - Peter, rock. Compare G2786.
rockG4073
G4073 πέτρα petra pet'-ra Feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock.
1Co_10:4 AndG2532 did allG3956 drinkG4095 theG3588 sameG846 spiritualG4152 drink:G4188 forG1063 they drankG4095 ofG1537 that spiritualG4152 RockG4073 that followedG190 them: andG1161 that RockG4073 wasG2258 Christ.G5547
Peter,G4074
G4074 Πέτρος Petros pet'-ros Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle: - Peter, rock. Compare G2786.
rockG4073
G4073 πέτρα petra pet'-ra Feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock.
1Co_10:4 AndG2532 did allG3956 drinkG4095 theG3588 sameG846 spiritualG4152 drink:G4188 forG1063 they drankG4095 ofG1537 that spiritualG4152 RockG4073 that followedG190 them: andG1161 that RockG4073 wasG2258 Christ.G5547
Out of their belly
As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence:
and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said,
out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
All drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them:
and that Rock was Christ.
As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence:
and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said,
out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
All drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them:
and that Rock was Christ.
R
See brother you can't say anything without offense not in this setting. I have said nothing to offend anyone yet they take it as offense. i speak nothing but Christ an Him Crucified and I did say that Christ is the rock. How doe's that offend? I said I would adhere to the thread but others refuse. My friend Jason if you talk about the gospel it will offend no way around it.
J
Let God's word be true. Just the verse.
Revelation 4:1 KJV After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Lets not add things that aren't there. Just Gods word as the thread originator asked.
Revelation 4:1 KJV After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Lets not add things that aren't there. Just Gods word as the thread originator asked.
W
Kings 19
11 The Lord said, “Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the Lord, for the Lord is about to pass by.”
Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper.
11 The Lord said, “Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the Lord, for the Lord is about to pass by.”
Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper.
This is pretty cool, lively stones
John 1:42
And he (Andrew) brought him (Simon) to Jesus.
And when Jesus beheld him, he said,
Thou art Simon the son of Jona:
thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.
Likewise Peter shows the same of them (as coming to Christ)
1Peter 2:4
To whom coming,
as unto a living stone,
disallowed indeed of men,
but chosen of God, and precious,
And again, "Ye also"as lively stones
1Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones are built up a spiritual house,
an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Last part of the above ends with "acceptable to God by Jesus Christ"
You could go this way too I guess
Mat 16:18
And I say also unto thee,
That thou art Peter Petros [SUP]4074[/SUP],
and upon this rock ( petra )[SUP]4073[/SUP] I will build my church;
and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
1Cr 10:4
....they drank of that spiritual Rock ( petra) [SUP]4073[/SUP] that followed them:
and that Rock (petra) [SUP]4073[/SUP] was Christ
The text and in the definition
John 1:42
Cephas Kēphas 2786, which is by interpretation,
A stone petros 4074.
Mat 16:18
And I say also unto thee,
That thou art Peter Petros 4074
and upon this rock petra 4073 I will build my church;
and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Im Petered out
John 1:42
And he (Andrew) brought him (Simon) to Jesus.
And when Jesus beheld him, he said,
Thou art Simon the son of Jona:
thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.
Likewise Peter shows the same of them (as coming to Christ)
1Peter 2:4
To whom coming,
as unto a living stone,
disallowed indeed of men,
but chosen of God, and precious,
And again, "Ye also"as lively stones
1Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones are built up a spiritual house,
an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Last part of the above ends with "acceptable to God by Jesus Christ"
You could go this way too I guess
Mat 16:18
And I say also unto thee,
That thou art Peter Petros [SUP]4074[/SUP],
and upon this rock ( petra )[SUP]4073[/SUP] I will build my church;
and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
1Cr 10:4
....they drank of that spiritual Rock ( petra) [SUP]4073[/SUP] that followed them:
and that Rock (petra) [SUP]4073[/SUP] was Christ
The text and in the definition
John 1:42
Cephas Kēphas 2786, which is by interpretation,
A stone petros 4074.
Mat 16:18
And I say also unto thee,
That thou art Peter Petros 4074
and upon this rock petra 4073 I will build my church;
and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Im Petered out
B
[SUP]8 [/SUP]I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
"And He shall take of what is mine and make it known to you"
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
"And He shall take of what is mine and make it known to you"
As I said, it is prophet and John is representing the church here and which is also why you never see the word "church" after this. The "Trumpet call of God" in 1 Thes.4:16 is synonymous with that "voice that sounds like a trumpet." Therefore, I am not adding anything that isn't there, it is just camouflaged, which John is representing. Also, as I said, your version puts the living church through the entire wrath of God, which cannot be. Anyone who claims this does not understand the severity and magnitude of the coming wrath. Also, ask yourself the question as to who those are following Christ out of heaven riding on white horses and wearing fine linen, white and clean? According to Rev.17:14, it is His called, chosen and faithful followers.