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J
The ressurection is bodily. John was caught up in spirit only.
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Revelation 22:16 KJV I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Rom_1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co_1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1Co_14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1Co_16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
2Co_13:13 All the saints salute you.
Eph_1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Php_1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
Col_1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rev_5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev_8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
Rev_8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
Rev_11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev_13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev_13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
Rev_16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
Rev_17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
Rev_18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Rev_19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev_20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
1Pe_2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
Php_1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
Eph_6:6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
Rom_6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom_1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Col_4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.
Tit_1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
Jud_1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
Rev_1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev_10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Rev_11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev_22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
1Pe_1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Tit_1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto
you.
1 Thessalonians 4:15 KJV 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
Matthew 24:29-31 KJV Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Revelation 22:16 KJV I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Rom_1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co_1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1Co_14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1Co_16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
2Co_13:13 All the saints salute you.
Eph_1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Php_1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
Col_1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rev_5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev_8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
Rev_8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
Rev_11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev_13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev_13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
Rev_16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
Rev_17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
Rev_18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Rev_19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev_20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
1Pe_2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
Php_1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
Eph_6:6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
Rom_6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom_1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Col_4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.
Tit_1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
Jud_1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
Rev_1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev_10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Rev_11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev_22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
1Pe_1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Tit_1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto
you.
1 Thessalonians 4:15 KJV 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
Matthew 24:29-31 KJV Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
J
Match colors in your quote to colors in my response.
We are not appointed to wrath so your understanding of God's wrath and satan's wrath are wrong. They can not and will not happen together at all they will not even overlap. One happens as a result of the other. First satan's wrath then God's wrath.''
In 2 Thess 2 Paul says about great tribulation:
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Paul says satan exalts himself above all that is called God during the great tribulation. KEY WORD EXAULTETH!!
So during great tribulation satan exalts himself.
The day of the Lord = The Lords wrath
Zep 1:14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
Zep 1:15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
Zep 1:16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high tower
Since we know the day of the Lord is the day of wrath. Lets see what scripture says.
Isaiah 2:11-12 KJV The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. 12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
The verse above clearly says the Lord alone will be exalted in that day. What day? The day of the LORD!!! Which according to the old testament prophets is the Lords wrath.
The Lord alone is exalted in that day. Since satan exalts himself during great tribulation and in God's wrath the Lord alone is exalted in that day then it is impossible for them to happen together or overlap in any way.
The wrath of God is not the wrath of satan they are two entirely distinct things that can not and will not happen together.
The great trib is satans wrath and Gods wrath comes after. We are raputered after tribulation ( satans wrath ) before Gods wrath.
If you follow your theory Gods word refutes your own theory.
Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
If John is representing the church then according to revelation John goes through tribulation.
But since your theory isn't true once again if John is representing the church he would be bodily caught up but he isn't. He is in the spirit.
Revelation 4:1-2 KJV After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Romans 15:13Amplified Bible (AMP)
13*May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing [through the experience of your faith] that by the power of the Holy Spirit you will abound in hopeand*overflow with confidence in His promises.
(As Jason has requested just scripture to prevent disagreements maybe we all just totally ignore anybody that wants to disagree and just continue to post scripture) xx
13*May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing [through the experience of your faith] that by the power of the Holy Spirit you will abound in hopeand*overflow with confidence in His promises.
(As Jason has requested just scripture to prevent disagreements maybe we all just totally ignore anybody that wants to disagree and just continue to post scripture) xx
J
Been giving this very subject thought lately, a lot of thought.
Ever been in a situation where you come into an understanding of something based on what your creator seems to be doing but have difficulty wrapping your head around it because it seems kind of unbelievable?
"Resurrection? How is that gonna work, God? You said it but WHAT?"
These are strange, dangerous times, and what is suggested is to happen next is...
Well. Strange things are afoot at the circle K.
Ever been in a situation where you come into an understanding of something based on what your creator seems to be doing but have difficulty wrapping your head around it because it seems kind of unbelievable?
"Resurrection? How is that gonna work, God? You said it but WHAT?"
These are strange, dangerous times, and what is suggested is to happen next is...
Well. Strange things are afoot at the circle K.
There is no God's wrath, Satan's wrath. There is only God's wrath, which begins at the opening of the first seal and continues through the rest of the seals, followed by the trumpets, with the bowl judgments bringing God's wrath to completion.
"I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed." (Rev.15:1)
Since the bowl judgments are referred to as "Last" then that would mean that there was wrath prior to them, which would be the seals and the trumpet judgments.
The events of the beast and the false prophet run concurrently during the time of God's wrath and here is an example:
"The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done."
Since the 5th bowl judgment is God's wrath and it is being poured out on the beasts kingdom, your attempt to separate God's wrath from the events of the beast and his kingdom are in error, as this demonstrates that they run concurrently.
The above does nothing to disprove that God's wrath is not in operation. All that it demonstrates is that the beast is proclaiming to be God. It doesn't mean that he is God! God's wrath is still taking place during the time that the beast is proclaiming himself to be God. In fact, scripture states that he is given authority by God to have authority over the great tribulation saints and the rest of the inhabitants of the world for that last 3 1/2 years. (Dan.7:25, Rev.13)
"He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time."
"The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. He opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. He was given power to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world."
A "time, times and a half a time" and "forty-two months" both equal 3 1/2 years, which is that last 3 1/2 years of the seven year period.
First of all, the day of the Lord is not a day in length, but encompasses that entire last seven years. The day of the Lord is also referred to as "the hour of trial," which the Lord said he would keep us out of (Rev.3:10). Second, the day of the Lord is initiated by the resurrection and catching away of the church, as demonstrated below:
"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.Therefore encourage one another with these words." (1 thes.4:16-18)
After Paul gives a detailed description of the resurrection and catching away of the church above, he then says the following:
"Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night."
The day of the Lord would then have to refer back to what he was just previously speaking about, which was the resurrection and catching away of the church. Therefore, the day of the Lord is initiated by the appearing of the Lord to gather His church, with the wrath of God to immediately follow.
No they are not! That last seven years will be the fulfillment of the seventy seven year periods that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem, as revealed in Dan.9:24:
"Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place."
Sixty-nine of those seven year periods were fulfilled when the Anointed One was cut off, which was Christ crucified. The last seven year period is almost upon us, but before that, the church must be removed from the earth. God's wrath runs through that entire last seven years and begins with the opening of the first seal, which is the revealing of the antichrist. Furthermore, scripture does not mention a time of Satan's wrath. All that is said is that when he finds that he and his angels have been thrown out of heaven to the earth, he is angry. In fact, it is demonstrated once again that God's wrath and Satan's campaign run concurrently, for he is cast out as a result of the 7th trumpet being sounded, which is one of God's plagues of wrath. And though it is good for those in heaven, it is the third woe for those on earth.
John is only representing the church prophetically in Rev.4:1 not through the entire book of Revelation.
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J
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Only one statement of yours needs to be shown wrong to show you do not have the correct understanding. Oops
Only one statement of yours needs to be shown wrong to show you do not have the correct understanding. Oops
Hebrews 10:15-19 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," He then says,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," He then says,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus,
I see you put words not just in God's mouth but mine as well.
1 John 1:6-7Amplified Bible (AMP)
6*If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness [of sin], we lie and do not practice the truth;*7*but if we [really] walk in the Light [that is, live each and every day in conformity with the precepts of God], as He Himself is in the Light, we have [true, unbroken] fellowship with one another [He with us, and we with Him], and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin [by erasing the stain of sin, keeping us cleansed from sin in all its forms and manifestations].
6*If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness [of sin], we lie and do not practice the truth;*7*but if we [really] walk in the Light [that is, live each and every day in conformity with the precepts of God], as He Himself is in the Light, we have [true, unbroken] fellowship with one another [He with us, and we with Him], and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin [by erasing the stain of sin, keeping us cleansed from sin in all its forms and manifestations].
J
bro, in the spirit of peace, I just wish to remind you that this particular thread is not intended for anyone to teach anyone anything as they see it. it is to opresent scripture and Let Gods word work in each of us who will trust that. we all have One teacher, and so many are at different places as intended. there is a lot of opinion already within 10 hrs of a post intended for the purpose of sharing scripture WITHOUT proving our belief, without having to tell others what the scriptures mean to a person. as knowledgable as some of us, and also many others are, not one of us is beyond learning from Gods Word. I ask again, lets share the word on this thread. not our teaching of the word.
again I hope this isn't an offense to you, but honestly the op was really clear I thought. you definitely should start a thread intended to share the things you understand, but this thread is not the place for sermons or arguments. I ask in respect, for respect of the op. for the benefit of those who wish to share and also accept scripture that we may not have noticed or retained, as Gods Word is the power itself, and works as seed in the soils of each individual heart.
thank you and I expect that this will be received clearly and with no offense, and also that you will consider and respect the original post.t