Brexit - Do we stay or do we go

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Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
838
113
A referendum on the street? ... "mob rule"? I cant believe that I'm even reading such statements ? I think a very large percentage of the EU officials are ex-communist .. We have a communist take-over of Europe going on and democracy is being treated as if its nothing. I cant believe its gotten as far as it has and pray to God he destroys the whole evil thing.
It is interesting how organized and well-articulated opposition to technocrats is suddenly considered opposition to the rule of law generally speaking. The true nature of the EU is increasingly unveiled.

Not saying this is what JimmieD supports, but the chattering class and liberal cosmopolitans have subjected the vote Outers to outright slander similar to how they have treated Ted Cruz and Donald Trump supporters in the US.

This is what happens when progressives equate their whims with edicts and dispositions with doctrine. Everyone else is a heathen or worse, a heretic.
 
M

Miri

Guest
Hi re the age of voters, take a look at this and scroll down to the bottom
for the ages of voters. It shows that the majority of those over 45 were voting leave.
While the majority of those under 45 voted stay.

You can't vote until 18 and most people in the 18-25 age group don't bother to
vote. So many of the 75% who didn't vote will be in this age group and those that did
probably voted the same way as their parents! How many 18 year olds do you know who
actually take an interest in politics and vote independently of their parents etc.

As for voting age it was probably the 25-44s who on average wanted to remain and some
of them would still have voted the same way as their parents. So to say the older people
should not be allowed to vote is nonsense.

Maybe if anything the ages of the leave voters just show that age brings wisdom. That
having been around the block a few times that they know wot that are talking about.

Regarding the 65 plus. Here is the interesting thing, prior to the vote, David Cameron was
saying all sorts about how if we left, old age pensions would have to reduce, benefits
to old people would reduce, certain things to old people could no longer be protected.

They obviously were having none of it and failed to be alarmed at his scare tactics.
If anything the fear mongering he tried to do among the old people back fired badly.

Another thing to consider is that there would have been a large proportion of elderly who
didnt vote, those who were too confused or ill to vote - although we do have postal ballets
in this country for those who want them. It will also have been the older generation more
than any who have seen the changes to this country.

The younger people would have mainly been thinking about money and freedom of travel.
Whereas the older people may well have been thinking about quality of life generally.

Another thing for consideration you are more likely to have been hospitalised as an
older person and seen multiple medical staff, and therefore more likely to have felt
and seen first hand, the problems with the over burdened NHS/ambulance services,
social care services etc.

Younger people do not always have the life experience to see the entire picture.

Anyway thought i would post this as I see it has been brought up in the thread.


EU referendum: The result in maps and charts - BBC News
 
M

Miri

Guest
BTW, only few people seem to realize this, but English will not be one of the official EU languages anymore :)

Crap, I dont want to learn German or French...
Dont worry the entire EU are trying to learn English because they all want to be in
the UK. :p English is also the language of commerce generally across the world.




How many hours does it take to be fluent in English? - BBC News


One of the Carer's who comes to see my elderly aunt is Polish. Very nice lady
but she has a very strong accent and my aunt can't understand her at all.

It can be quite funny at times but on the other hand, is it really a good idea to have
someone like that working with elderly people who may have dementia (my aunt is
borderline but drops down into the dementia range when she gets ill or her oxygen
levels reduce). Also because of the language barrier, this lady is not as chatty as the
others and does not say much at all. Another big problem if you have someone
coming into your home to do personal care, you don't want someone who appears
unfriendly because they don't say much.

It is also a bit of a problem in hospitals I've seen some of the doctors who treated my
aunt and I could barely understand them, let alone my ill confused aunt. I wonder
also if other staff have misunderstood them at times.

There was a big debate a couple of years back about the need for clarity of speaking and
understanding English for migrant workers coming to the UK. Migrants are now offered
English speaking classes in the UK. I suppose they will still continue.
 
M

Miri

Guest
This is interesting, apparently many in the EU are now calling for reform about the
way the EU is run. The UK has been pressing for that for years but other countries
just gave them the thumbs up and brushed them of. It would be ironic now if
the EU did start to listen and bring in the changes that the UK has been calling for.

EU referendum: Europe's press gripped by Brexit drama - BBC News
 
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Mitspa

Guest
10000 non elected officials in the EU ..make more money than the British PM
Just read these EU guys cannot be prosecuted ..ever for the crimes they commit in office ...what the heck?

That a large portion of these people are the old east German communist ...these people have just set up a new centralized government based on the communist model with absolutely no accountability to the people.
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
I like how some leaders of the EU are calling for the vote to be overturned. That, my friends, is the face of tyranny. On this side of the pond we call them Democrats.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
838
113
I like how some leaders of the EU are calling for the vote to be overturned. That, my friends, is the face of tyranny. On this side of the pond we call them Democrats.
If at first you don't secede, try try again.
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
895
18
18
It is interesting how organized and well-articulated opposition to technocrats is suddenly considered opposition to the rule of law generally speaking. The true nature of the EU is increasingly unveiled.

Not saying this is what JimmieD supports, but the chattering class and liberal cosmopolitans have subjected the vote Outers to outright slander similar to how they have treated Ted Cruz and Donald Trump supporters in the US.

This is what happens when progressives equate their whims with edicts and dispositions with doctrine. Everyone else is a heathen or worse, a heretic.
Mitspa has trouble reading what I write. I have no particular love for the EU. I wouldn't want to be governed by unelected bureaucrats either. I was simply raising some questions on this particular process. It doesn't seem to me to be without some problems.

People like Mitspa seem to think that if a process is democratic, then it is legitimate, and everyone has to submit to the will of whatever majority, which in this case is only a confirmed 37% of the populace, even if that decision is irreversible. I doubt you can actually have a functioning industrial society based on those rules.

So now Scotland and Northern Ireland may have their own democratic process. And why not? Maybe Cambridge could have its own democratic process too (they voted to stay)? I mean, those would be democratic processes if all of the dissenters held their own referendums, so they would be legitimate, right?

I just doubt that government by popular referendum could be a successful form of government, especially at a large scale, as it is an unchecked political process where some sufficiently numbered group tells some other group of people how they have to live.

I don't think there are easy answers here either. One possible solution is a process of checks and balances.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
This is interesting, apparently many in the EU are now calling for reform about the
way the EU is run. The UK has been pressing for that for years but other countries
just gave them the thumbs up and brushed them of. It would be ironic now if
the EU did start to listen and bring in the changes that the UK has been calling for.

EU referendum: Europe's press gripped by Brexit drama - BBC News
Actually, I was listening to some discussion yesterday with Czech economists and they said that UK, instead of reforming EU, wanted always only exceptions for themselves and nothing else.
Thats why UK had the most exceptions of all EU countries.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
I like how some leaders of the EU are calling for the vote to be overturned. That, my friends, is the face of tyranny. On this side of the pond we call them Democrats.
What EU leaders? I have not heard of anyone. Only about millions of Brits signed petition for repeating the poll.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
Dont worry the entire EU are trying to learn English because they all want to be in
the UK. :p English is also the language of commerce generally across the world.




How many hours does it take to be fluent in English? - BBC News


One of the Carer's who comes to see my elderly aunt is Polish. Very nice lady
but she has a very strong accent and my aunt can't understand her at all.

It can be quite funny at times but on the other hand, is it really a good idea to have
someone like that working with elderly people who may have dementia (my aunt is
borderline but drops down into the dementia range when she gets ill or her oxygen
levels reduce). Also because of the language barrier, this lady is not as chatty as the
others and does not say much at all. Another big problem if you have someone
coming into your home to do personal care, you don't want someone who appears
unfriendly because they don't say much.

It is also a bit of a problem in hospitals I've seen some of the doctors who treated my
aunt and I could barely understand them, let alone my ill confused aunt. I wonder
also if other staff have misunderstood them at times.

There was a big debate a couple of years back about the need for clarity of speaking and
understanding English for migrant workers coming to the UK. Migrants are now offered
English speaking classes in the UK. I suppose they will still continue.
I wonder if anything will change. So far it seems that the Brexit campaign was based on fear of eastern EU and lies.

EU officials said if UK wants to have access to single European market, they would have to pay the same fee as they are paying now. And implement the laws of single market like they were in the EU...

And I think Poland will block UK to have this access if UK will not guarantee free movement of EU citizens. So we will see...

I hope your favourite Polish lady will stay now: 'Go back home' - Bitter backlash post EU referendum - BBC News
 
M

MadParrotWoman

Guest
I've been listening to the turn of events on my radio today, it all seems like a big sorry mess. It would seem that Boris Johnson has his own agenda and appears to me as if he wasn't really in it because he had the same concerns as the rest of us. I hope he doesn't get David Cameron's job! As For David Cameron, he was so sure the remain camp would win that he had no plan B in place in the event the vote would go otherwise. Now he wants to abandon ship and no one knows who is going to take over, if there is going to be a general election, when the process of leaving the EU will begin or what happens about the migrant workers or our trading within the EU....even the Labour party is now in disarray! So yeah a big sorry mess. Thanks Cameron!
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,065
1,501
113
Mitspa has trouble reading what I write. I have no particular love for the EU. I wouldn't want to be governed by unelected bureaucrats either. I was simply raising some questions on this particular process. It doesn't seem to me to be without some problems.

People like Mitspa seem to think that if a process is democratic, then it is legitimate, and everyone has to submit to the will of whatever majority, which in this case is only a confirmed 37% of the populace, even if that decision is irreversible. I doubt you can actually have a functioning industrial society based on those rules.

So now Scotland and Northern Ireland may have their own democratic process. And why not? Maybe Cambridge could have its own democratic process too (they voted to stay)? I mean, those would be democratic processes if all of the dissenters held their own referendums, so they would be legitimate, right?

I just doubt that government by popular referendum could be a successful form of government, especially at a large scale, as it is an unchecked political process where some sufficiently numbered group tells some other group of people how they have to live.

I don't think there are easy answers here either. One possible solution is a process of checks and balances.
I think what Mitspa and others are trying to tell you is that not voting is the same as voting for the winner regardless of which side wins. If my side loses, it is because not enough people cared about my position to vote for it. That is true whether I lost by 1 vote or 100,000 votes.

The checks and balances is the freedom to vote or not to vote.
 
M

MadParrotWoman

Guest
I wonder if anything will change. So far it seems that the Brexit campaign was based on fear of eastern EU and lies.

EU officials said if UK wants to have access to single European market, they would have to pay the same fee as they are paying now. And implement the laws of single market like they were in the EU...

And I think Poland will block UK to have this access if UK will not guarantee free movement of EU citizens. So we will see...

I hope your favourite Polish lady will stay now: 'Go back home' - Bitter backlash post EU referendum - BBC News
Please do not watch biased BBC links. The BBC have been biased from day1! There are isolated "backlash" cases and they are few and far between. I work with Polish migrants and nothing has or ever will be said to them. It's more of a concern that it could happen
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
Please do not watch biased BBC links. The BBC have been biased from day1! There are isolated "backlash" cases and they are few and far between. I work with Polish migrants and nothing has or ever will be said to them. It's more of a concern that it could happen
I do not :) I have read that in Czech media, I was only looking for some English link to give you on this matter...

What about this? :) 'No More Polish Vermin' cards posted through letterboxes and 'Go Home' graffiti among 'Brexit racism' incidents reported - Mirror Online
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
838
113
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MadParrotWoman

Guest
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MadParrotWoman

Guest