oh I see if you don't believe it , it cant be true, never mind I thought this was a bible discussion forum.... I will not bother to respond to your posts any longer... its pretty obvious you don't wish to discuss anything but rather defend a position based on incomplete and biased info..... ill leave you to it.
Loving God = Obeying God = Being Blessed!
- Thread starter disciplemike
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
Peter offended Gentiles because he refused to eat meat, and wanted to obey the kosher laws of the OT. Mostly because he was afraid of the jews.
Paul called him out on it. openly and publically
So we have biblical precedence to call out people trying to do the same thing to the church today. Be it meat laws (kosher). Sabath laws or ceremonial laws.
Paul called him out on it. openly and publically
So we have biblical precedence to call out people trying to do the same thing to the church today. Be it meat laws (kosher). Sabath laws or ceremonial laws.
P
Disciplemike you don't know what you are talking about. If it wasn't for the grace of God we would all be in hell right now. When Adam and Eve sinned man lost dominion on the earth. Jesus came on this earth to redeem mankind and to destroy the works of the devil. The old covenant could not save man. We as Christians follow the New Covenant. God's Grace and Mercy. People need to study, learn, and believe the whole Bible. Jesus was the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. The sad part was many Jewish people rejected Jesus and did not believe in Him. The Pharisees kept talking about the Law. Jesus told them who he was and they still did not understand Him. Romans5:8 But God demonstrates His own love towards us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. Romans6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. John 17:3 And this is eternal life that they may know you, the only true God and Jesus whom you have sent. Romans8:1-2 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, has set me free from the law of sin and death. The Body of Christ must stand up and stop being afraid. Preach the True Gospel and tell people the truth. Stop being afraid of persecution. People will get mad when you preach the Word but why worry about it? Stand up America and repent and turn back to God. People need to know that there is power in Jesus name. They need to know that if you give life to Christ things will get better. Stop listening to Satan's lies. Repent and turn to God. He is the only way. To God be the glory. Preacha24-7
There is a problem here. What are the real motives, to create an argument on general
labels or really define the points.
"You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality."
Acts 15:29
Now Paul argues that it does not really matter about food sacrificed to idols.
So the apostles are being very loose in their definitions, and not sure where the line
is being drawn.
Paul circumcised Timothy, went to the temple for the purification rituals.
So though these things are now symbols of what we have in Christ, Paul was prepared
to participate for the sake of others.
His focus was on love and reaching out to the lost.
Now some will want to create a dispute on one word, without definition to try and divide
people, rather than really discuss the issues.
In this way they will attempt to create animosity where there is none.
We all agree that we are commanded to love, both in the new testament and the old.
But some feel the very idea of talking about rules or measures or sin is evil and related
to condemnation and is the work of satan. So they wish to label those who do this and
then oppose everything they share or say. An odd approach, but it only works if you
do not define what you stand for or how you disagree with scripture.
But I wonder if they can define why the law of God, the moral law should be followed and
how? Or if not the moral law, then what?
Scripture tells us by believing and trusting in Christ we walk in the Spirit and are slaves
to righteousness. But how do we know what is a righteous act and what is sinful, or what
is Gods command and what is rebellion?
labels or really define the points.
"You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality."
Acts 15:29
Now Paul argues that it does not really matter about food sacrificed to idols.
So the apostles are being very loose in their definitions, and not sure where the line
is being drawn.
Paul circumcised Timothy, went to the temple for the purification rituals.
So though these things are now symbols of what we have in Christ, Paul was prepared
to participate for the sake of others.
His focus was on love and reaching out to the lost.
Now some will want to create a dispute on one word, without definition to try and divide
people, rather than really discuss the issues.
In this way they will attempt to create animosity where there is none.
We all agree that we are commanded to love, both in the new testament and the old.
But some feel the very idea of talking about rules or measures or sin is evil and related
to condemnation and is the work of satan. So they wish to label those who do this and
then oppose everything they share or say. An odd approach, but it only works if you
do not define what you stand for or how you disagree with scripture.
But I wonder if they can define why the law of God, the moral law should be followed and
how? Or if not the moral law, then what?
Scripture tells us by believing and trusting in Christ we walk in the Spirit and are slaves
to righteousness. But how do we know what is a righteous act and what is sinful, or what
is Gods command and what is rebellion?
P
I think that posts by Grace 777 and a few others in this thread concerning the moral law of God are accurate. I'm not arguing that we should disregard God's commandments or expect to be blessed in this life if we disdain God's law. That being said, the entire mission of Christ was to show us that God is more interested in our hearts, motives, and intents than our outward actions. David disobeyed God's law and ate the shewbread when his soldiers were on the run and starving. God never condemned his actions. Why? Because David had a heart after God and always put God first. That action from another could have been indicative of total disregard for sacred things, but David, despite his many faults, could never be accused of a disrespect for God.
Christ showed us the difference between obeying the letter of the law and fulfilling the spirit of the law. Another example is when the Pharisee's scolded the disciples for picking and eating grains on the Sabbath. Technically, the Pharisees were right. That was forbidden under the law of Moses. Yet, who was actually observing the spirit of the law? The disciples were spending time with Christ ( the Lord of the Sabbath) and learning from Him. I'd like to argue that many did keep Moses' law perfectly and still did not find salvation, unlike David. Christ never corrects the rich young ruler's claims that he had obeyed the commandments and law of Moses. The young man makes a pretty good case for himself. The thing he lacks is real love for God. Christ didn't have to offer himself up as a sacrifice because none of us were able to keep Moses' law outwardly. I disagree that God gave us a law that we couldn't keep. Obeying a set of rules is actually not that difficult, especially if there are earthly consequences attached to breaking these laws. In countries with Sharia law citizens obey these laws in fear and terror. That doesn't mean that all of them obey these laws joyfully or agree with them. Thus, it can't really be said that they obey from the heart. Christ didn't offer himself up because we couldn't keep Moses' law. God wanted more from us than outward observance. He wants us to love him with all our soul, strength, and mind and to love others. That is what men, apart from the grace of God, have failed to do. Our primary focus should be on loving Christ and others. If we do that in truth, we'll not be violating the spirit of Moses' law. Thus, we'd be obeying God's commandments.
Christ showed us the difference between obeying the letter of the law and fulfilling the spirit of the law. Another example is when the Pharisee's scolded the disciples for picking and eating grains on the Sabbath. Technically, the Pharisees were right. That was forbidden under the law of Moses. Yet, who was actually observing the spirit of the law? The disciples were spending time with Christ ( the Lord of the Sabbath) and learning from Him. I'd like to argue that many did keep Moses' law perfectly and still did not find salvation, unlike David. Christ never corrects the rich young ruler's claims that he had obeyed the commandments and law of Moses. The young man makes a pretty good case for himself. The thing he lacks is real love for God. Christ didn't have to offer himself up as a sacrifice because none of us were able to keep Moses' law outwardly. I disagree that God gave us a law that we couldn't keep. Obeying a set of rules is actually not that difficult, especially if there are earthly consequences attached to breaking these laws. In countries with Sharia law citizens obey these laws in fear and terror. That doesn't mean that all of them obey these laws joyfully or agree with them. Thus, it can't really be said that they obey from the heart. Christ didn't offer himself up because we couldn't keep Moses' law. God wanted more from us than outward observance. He wants us to love him with all our soul, strength, and mind and to love others. That is what men, apart from the grace of God, have failed to do. Our primary focus should be on loving Christ and others. If we do that in truth, we'll not be violating the spirit of Moses' law. Thus, we'd be obeying God's commandments.
Last edited:
You have assumed quite a lot about certain peoples positions.
Unless they support in actual words Gods moral law do not assume it, because some
have for a long time argued against any such position of a moral law or any rules by
which a christian is answerable.
But you will find some people are quite happy not to define their position but give the
impression of being reasonable to gain favour, when actually they are very extreme .
You can only tell the difference when contributors actually use scripture and theological
positions or even tell you what they believe. I have had some claiming I do not know what
they believe when over the months I have documented it all. So even though people claim
the word christian, being open and honest about who and what they, you cannot believe
them. They do not know the meaning of the words let your yes be yes and your no be no.
And their response to people who call them to task is to try and trap you into insult trading,
which is not pretty or sensible. Again turning the other cheek is not in their morality, it is
Christs ethics, which are "old covenant" or before the cross, so irrelevant.
Unless they support in actual words Gods moral law do not assume it, because some
have for a long time argued against any such position of a moral law or any rules by
which a christian is answerable.
But you will find some people are quite happy not to define their position but give the
impression of being reasonable to gain favour, when actually they are very extreme .
You can only tell the difference when contributors actually use scripture and theological
positions or even tell you what they believe. I have had some claiming I do not know what
they believe when over the months I have documented it all. So even though people claim
the word christian, being open and honest about who and what they, you cannot believe
them. They do not know the meaning of the words let your yes be yes and your no be no.
And their response to people who call them to task is to try and trap you into insult trading,
which is not pretty or sensible. Again turning the other cheek is not in their morality, it is
Christs ethics, which are "old covenant" or before the cross, so irrelevant.
Yes..it would "appear" some people don't want to obey the law of Moses when it says to stone our children for disobedience.
It also seems some don't think they have to obey their King when it is said in the law of Moses to stone any members of our family that try to take us away from God. There are hundreds of things like this in the Old Covenant that "some people think they don't have to obey the King they love."
I wonder why that is? Could it possibly be that we have a New Covenant now? Of course we have a New Covenant based on the blood of Jesus our Lord and that the Old Covenant is now obsolete.
Could it be the simple fact that those that are in Christ are dead to the law, have been released from the law and are not under the Law? Of course it is.
People do not dispute the scriptures. It's the "application" of those scriptures from the semi-law-keepers/breakers that violate the New Covenant that people find peculiar and it is anti-Christ in it's belief system.
These Judaizers that do not keep the whole law at all yet want others to "keep" what they deem "do-able" - this is in fact peculiar and it is an anti-Christ belief system.
Remember Paul said that in the last days that people would be "anti-Christ" - NOT "anti-God". Judaizers are all for God as they know it from the Old Covenant but deny Christ in the New Covenant.
It's a perversion of the gospel of the grace of Christ and no one here is going to fall for this religion and desert our Lord for going back to the law for life and living. Gal. 1:6: Ga. 2:3-5
It also seems some don't think they have to obey their King when it is said in the law of Moses to stone any members of our family that try to take us away from God. There are hundreds of things like this in the Old Covenant that "some people think they don't have to obey the King they love."
I wonder why that is? Could it possibly be that we have a New Covenant now? Of course we have a New Covenant based on the blood of Jesus our Lord and that the Old Covenant is now obsolete.
Could it be the simple fact that those that are in Christ are dead to the law, have been released from the law and are not under the Law? Of course it is.
People do not dispute the scriptures. It's the "application" of those scriptures from the semi-law-keepers/breakers that violate the New Covenant that people find peculiar and it is anti-Christ in it's belief system.
These Judaizers that do not keep the whole law at all yet want others to "keep" what they deem "do-able" - this is in fact peculiar and it is an anti-Christ belief system.
Remember Paul said that in the last days that people would be "anti-Christ" - NOT "anti-God". Judaizers are all for God as they know it from the Old Covenant but deny Christ in the New Covenant.
It's a perversion of the gospel of the grace of Christ and no one here is going to fall for this religion and desert our Lord for going back to the law for life and living. Gal. 1:6: Ga. 2:3-5
Last edited:
P
I am relatively new to the forum and I'm not entirely familiar with everyone's beliefs ( although I have read through quite a few threads in this subforum). I did notice that there have been quite a few discussions or disagreements concerning law vs grace. I was reading and taking everyone's comments in this thread at face value. I can't edit my original post. The point I was trying to make in my post is that the new covenant requires something far greater of us. The moral law of God is far more encompassing than the law of Moses. The law of Moses could only govern man's outward actions or obedience. The moral law of God touches our heart, intents, and motivations. Focusing on our relationship with Christ and seeking his grace to overcome sin and satisfy this moral law definitely doesn't mean, in my opinion, that we've stopped obeying God's commandments. On this note, I like this quote by Luther: Good works do not make a man good, but a saved man does good works."
well, the King said to obey his Son, over Moses and Elijah, on the mount of transfiguration , which you ignore the Meaning of, so maybe you should enlighten us as to the Hebrew roots way of twisting that back to mt . sinah, that is where ya'll try to drag the entire Bible back to, instead of Christ.