Calvinism - Another Heresy
- Thread starter Spurgeoncy
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Calvinism:
- Having to do with Calvin Klein.
- Usually something to do with underwear.
- People debate it a lot.
- Underwear seems to be both controversial and poorly understood.
* I stay out of these debates, as I'm not experienced in debating the finer points of underwear... although I will concede it's an important topic.
Angela - with all due respect and with the fact that I love you, I would have to say it was Abigail who started the snarky comments and remarks.
She took a jibe at the user's name and posted that she couldn't take the OP seriously. Yet she constantly keeps coming back to post more snide comments and remarks on the OP's character.
Quite a vituperative method of aggression.
Also, I don't think that just because a person has been a long time member of the forums, they require special deference from other users.
Credibility on the internet is a personal choice.
She took a jibe at the user's name and posted that she couldn't take the OP seriously. Yet she constantly keeps coming back to post more snide comments and remarks on the OP's character.
Quite a vituperative method of aggression.
Also, I don't think that just because a person has been a long time member of the forums, they require special deference from other users.
Credibility on the internet is a personal choice.
Exactly my point! Thanks for proving it!
You have no credibility here. I do not know which forums you were in to have cultivated such an arrogant attitude, but that is not how we operate here. It is against the rules to slander people, and it will be reported. If you have a point, or a valid argument, please feel free to present it. But attacking people is not allowed.
Please note:
This is the Bible Discussion Forum. We discuss the Bible, and often theology with the support of the Bible. We do not blast people we know nothing about.
So please take YOUR soapbox elsewhere. Your welcome!
P
Well, let me start this post off by saying that I have opinions on Scripture and Calvinism, but I'm not convinced that I have the true understanding on everything.
I think this discussion needs as Roger said a more concrete framework. We need to discuss each point of Tulip and see what issues some have with some or all of the points.
1) Total Depravity
2) Unconditional Election
3) Limited Atonement
4) Irresistible grace
5) Perseverance of the Saints
I personally don't really disagree with points 1 and 5. I find that I struggle to accept the other three points.
I think that if I understood your OP, that you disagree the most with point 2. You view predestination to take away from the fairness of God. I want to make sure we are on the same page before we discuss this further
I think this discussion needs as Roger said a more concrete framework. We need to discuss each point of Tulip and see what issues some have with some or all of the points.
1) Total Depravity
2) Unconditional Election
3) Limited Atonement
4) Irresistible grace
5) Perseverance of the Saints
I personally don't really disagree with points 1 and 5. I find that I struggle to accept the other three points.
I think that if I understood your OP, that you disagree the most with point 2. You view predestination to take away from the fairness of God. I want to make sure we are on the same page before we discuss this further
What an extraordinary rant. If Calvinism has survived 400 years, I don't think you need to fuss yourself up about my thread then.
I simply never blasted Abigail, you are a liar Angela.
The rest of your diatribe is a bit sad. What is your point?
Who have I tried to slander?
You need to substantiate these wild allegations...go ahead . Please
I simply never blasted Abigail, you are a liar Angela.
The rest of your diatribe is a bit sad. What is your point?
Who have I tried to slander?
You need to substantiate these wild allegations...go ahead . Please
Ah this old chestnut again!
Here is an interesting text for Spurgeoncy. Who did what to whom, and who controlled all mens actions???
Isaiah 10:
“Woe to the Assyrian, the rod of my anger,
in whose hand is the club of my wrath!
6 I send him against a godless nation,
I dispatch him against a people who anger me,
to seize loot and snatch plunder,
and to trample them down like mud in the streets.
7 But this is not what he intends,
this is not what he has in mind;
his purpose is to destroy,
to put an end to many nations.
8 ‘Are not my commanders all kings?’ he says.
9 ‘Has not Kalno fared like Carchemish?
Is not Hamath like Arpad,
and Samaria like Damascus?
10 As my hand seized the kingdoms of the idols,
kingdoms whose images excelled those of Jerusalem and Samaria—
11 shall I not deal with Jerusalem and her images
as I dealt with Samaria and her idols?’”
12 When the Lord has finished all his work against Mount Zion and Jerusalem, he will say, “I will punish the king of Assyria for the willful pride of his heart and the haughty look in his eyes. 13 For he says:
“‘By the strength of my hand I have done this,
and by my wisdom, because I have understanding.
I removed the boundaries of nations,
I plundered their treasures;
like a mighty one I subdued[a] their kings.
“By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestined to life or death.”
John Calvin - Institutes of the Christian Religion, 3:21:5
Personally I think it is sometimes better to cut to the chase.
John Calvin - Institutes of the Christian Religion, 3:21:5
Personally I think it is sometimes better to cut to the chase.
You are right NRD, and one can discuss TULIP, but ultimately Calvin concludes that some are predestined to damnation, in which light I feel that discussing TULIP is a bit like rearranging deckchairs.
And though some people like it and agree with it, to many Christians this is simply heresy. If you disagree, then argue so.
And though some people like it and agree with it, to many Christians this is simply heresy. If you disagree, then argue so.
P
I do not agree with this statement by Calvin. I disagree with the part of the statement that " God determines with himself whatever he wishes to happen with regard to every man." I think God has the right to do as he pleases with any of us. I don't question his sovereignty. I don't see though Calvin's statement in this point supported all throughout Scripture.
I view predestination by God to be the choice he makes to call or choose the elect based on his foreknowledge. I think of this in this way : he knows the hearts and future choices of men and being all knowing, he selects those that he knows will respond to his influence to be the elect. I see this explanation of predestination to leave room for man's free will.
However, I'm going to play devil's advocate since this thread needs both perspectives. There is the passage in Romans 9:22-23 that could be read to support Calvin's views
I view predestination by God to be the choice he makes to call or choose the elect based on his foreknowledge. I think of this in this way : he knows the hearts and future choices of men and being all knowing, he selects those that he knows will respond to his influence to be the elect. I see this explanation of predestination to leave room for man's free will.
However, I'm going to play devil's advocate since this thread needs both perspectives. There is the passage in Romans 9:22-23 that could be read to support Calvin's views
John 3:17-19New International Version (NIV)
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Why does it say condemned already ...and who is doing the condemning?
Also see post above http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/145721-calvinism-another-heresy-6.html#post2909386 #113
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Why does it say condemned already ...and who is doing the condemning?
Also see post above http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/145721-calvinism-another-heresy-6.html#post2909386 #113
Yes, I started it. It was pretty obvious. I was questioning the motives of this thread started by a "Spurgeon" bashing Calvinism. It just doesn't add up to me (trollish? sarcastic? making fun of Spurgeon or Calvin?). You do know what I'm talking about, right?
Unless, you don't, then I understand your perspective.
Unless, you don't, then I understand your perspective.