The President elect

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RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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There's nothing wrong with being rich as long as you follow the ways of God.
I've got 3 screens worth of God's word that says differently. God says if you follow Him your wealth will be in heaven, not here and now.

But thanks for the back up on the other stuff :)
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
But a lot of people want to be paid, even when they try to get away with inferior delivery.
That's what we get when we give kids trophies just for showing up.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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Even the founders were rich people. This notion that you have to be poor to be virtuous and do the right thing is nonesense. In fact, it might be detrimental to to put poor people in power seeing how they obviously don't understand money. And that's not even mentioning the fact that you'll never be elected without money.
Again, 3 screens worth of God's word says differently
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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actually...he just changed the tune from hoping in one hand and crapping in the other and see which one fills up first...too....time to put adults in charge and see if this mess can even be cleaned up.
Yep... time to groom a viable third party candidate!
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
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Then why do you seem to be solidly behind the hundreds of Dims who couldn't care less about the fate of our country, but have already said they have but one goal in mind, that no matter WHAT Trump does, be it good, great, uplifting and economically positive, hopeful, or otherwise, that they are dedicated to blindly and stubbornly trying to hamstring him at every turn?

This is traitorous anti-American talk, in my opinion.
Is this not exactly what the Reps did to Obummer?
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Might be because the time limit is only five minutes.
Both,as In,Less than ten minutes and also less than five.Started trying to delete the duplicate Immediately after.
Must be a slow WiFi connection,this has never happened at home,but It's all good.:)
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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I say it again..... Quit playing Democrat, and instead, actually show proof that these accusations are really happening. I still say there is a degree of some sort of sick jealousy against people in more influential positions than the attackers when affluent people are automatically judged as being guilty of whatever accusation is hurled at them.

You are deemed prejudiced if you say the same thing about poor people. (That's not PC.)
From CEO Pay Has Grown 90 Times Faster than Typical Worker Pay Since 1978 | Economic Policy Institute

Over the last several decades, inflation-adjusted CEO compensation increased from $1.5 million in 1978 to $16.3 million in 2014, or 997 percent, a rise almost double stock market growth. Over the same time period, a typical worker’s wages grew very little: the annual compensation, adjusted for inflation, of the average private-sector production and nonsupervisory worker (comprising 82 percent of total payroll employment) rose from $48,000 in 1978 to just $53,200 in 2014, an increase of only 10.9 percent. Due to this unequal growth, average top CEOs now make over 300 times what typical workers earn. Although corporations are posting record-high profits and the stock market is booming, the wages of most workers remain stagnant, indicating they are not participating equally in prosperity. Meanwhile, CEO compensation continues to rise even faster than the stock market.

And from Top CEOs Make 300 Times More than Typical Workers: Pay Growth Surpasses Stock Gains and Wage Growth of Top 0.1 Percent | Economic Policy Institute

The chief executive officers of America’s largest firms earn three times more than they did 20 years ago and at least 10 times more than 30 years ago, big gains even relative to other very-high-wage earners. These extraordinary pay increases have had spillover effects in pulling up the pay of other executives and managers, who constitute a larger group of workers than is commonly recognized.1 Consequently, the growth of CEO and executive compensation overall was a major factor driving the doubling of the income shares of the top 1 percent and top 0.1 percent of U.S. households from 1979 to 2007 (Bivens and Mishel 2013; Bakija, Cole, and Heim 2012). Since then, income growth has remained unbalanced: as profits have reached record highs and the stock market has boomed, the wages of most workers, stagnant over the last dozen years, including during the prior recovery, have declined during this one (Bivens et al. 2014; Gould 2015) .
In examining trends in CEO compensation to determine how well the top 1 and 0.1 percent are faring through 2014, this paper finds:

  • Average CEO compensation for the largest firms was $16.3 million in 2014. This estimate uses a comprehensive measure of CEO pay that covers chief executives of the top 350 U.S. firms and includes the value of stock options exercised in a given year. Compensation is up 3.9 percent since 2013 and 54.3 percent since the recovery began in 2009.
  • From 1978 to 2014, inflation-adjusted CEO compensation increased 997 percent, a rise almost double stock market growth and substantially greater than the painfully slow 10.9 percent growth in a typical worker’s annual compensation over the same period.
  • The CEO-to-worker compensation ratio, 20-to-1 in 1965, peaked at 376-to-1 in 2000 and was 303-to-1 in 2014, far higher than in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, or 1990s.
In examining CEO compensation relative to that of other high earners, we find:

  • Over the last three decades, compensation for CEOs grew far faster than that of other highly paid workers, i.e., those earning more than 99.9 percent of wage earners. CEO compensation in 2013 (the latest year for data on top wage earners) was 5.84 times greater than wages of the top 0.1 percent of wage earners, a ratio 2.66 points higher than the 3.18 ratio that prevailed over the 1947–1979 period. This wage gain alone is equivalent to the wages of 2.66 very-high-wage earners.
  • Also over the last three decades, CEO compensation increased more relative to the pay of other very-high-wage earners than the wages of college graduates rose relative to the wages of high school graduates.
  • That CEO pay grew far faster than pay of the top 0.1 percent of wage earners indicates that CEO compensation growth does not simply reflect the increased value of highly paid professionals in a competitive race for skills (the “market for talent”), but rather reflects the presence of substantial “rents” embedded in executive pay (meaning CEO pay does not reflect greater productivity of executives but rather the power of CEOs to extract concessions). Consequently, if CEOs earned less or were taxed more, there would be no adverse impact on output or employment.
  • Critics of examining these trends suggest looking at the pay of the average CEO, not CEOs of the largest firms. However, the average firm is very small, employing just 20 workers, and does not represent a useful comparison to the pay of a typical worker who works in a firm with roughly 1,000 workers. Half (52 percent) of employment and 58 percent of total payroll are in firms with more than 500 or more employees. Firms with at least 10,000 workers provide 27.9 percent of all employment and 31.4 percent of all payroll.

I could go on but I'm trying to keep this down to 2 screens ;)
 
Dec 9, 2011
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I don't really care about Trump's tax returns. I go to H&R Block. As for Obama, he was probably born in Kenya but at this juncture it's a moot point.
All that stuff Trump said didn't matter just long as he became president,right?
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
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And just to clarify, when I talk about wealthy CEOs I'm talking the GE's and McDonalds and other large corporations. The independent and mom-and-pop operations are just as much a victim of wealth hording as the average worker - since they rely more heavily on the average worker having spending money.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,367
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Both you and I know there is no such thing as spotless, pure and innocent intelligence services. Neither are there spotless, pure and innocent politicians. This isn't a contest beetween the PE and the intelligence services. It is about a PE that untill now, allegedly and publicy, has given people the impression that a significant part of American defense, both strategically and tactically, is not to be trusted.

Neither is this about AP issuing subpoenas based on the Freedom of Information Act to get information. This is about security. If the FBI and AP are bickering over what is to be made public, that is another question which has absolutely nothing to do with this question. This is what the media does, that is, so to speak, their raison d'être. This is, however, nothing near what the PE is supposed to be doing.

I'll repeat it: A PE cannot create an environment where his statements are discrediting the FBI, the CIA and the NSA. He is supposed to work with them. He is not supposed to work against them. Working against them will inevitably make people ask questions. Can he answer them? We'll see.

1. You are starting with a presumption.
This is provable by the way you state the question above... you say Trump is working AGAINST THEM... while never even considering it could be THEM working AGAINST TRUMP.

You are starting with the presumption that intelligence agencies COULD NOT be working against the President Elect.

Why would you START with that presumption?

Before considering facts, you are actually STARTING with this presumption.

Why would you just ASSUME if there is a conflict it must come from Trump, and not from intelligence services... who... btw... STILL HAVE A BOSS NAMED OBAMA till January 20.



2. For a few more days the intelligence agencies all have a boss, someone they answer to, someone who gives them orders.... a guy named Obama... who HATES Trump. Did this never occur to you?



3. Democrats can disparage the intelligence agencies, but republicans cannot... how odd.

Hillary has accused James Comey, head of the FBI, of working AGAINST HER!

Hillary accused James Comey of costing her the election?

So... only Democrats are allowed to have an issue with intelligence agencies?

Why aren't the Democrats attacking Hillary for talking bad about intelligence agencies?

Hillary has disparaged intelligence, but the Democrats only attack Trump when HE says something negative about intelligence.

So which is it?
Is there corruption in intelligence, or is there not?
Was Hillary right or wrong?
And even if Hillary was wrong, why do the Dems attack Trump for disparaging intelligence, but the Dems don't mind when Hillary disparages intelligance?



4. Question for you:

If the intelligence agencies ARE working against the President Elect,
who is about to be their new boss,
then SHOULDN'T HE CALL THEM OUT ON IT, AND FIX THE CORRUPTION?

If it does turn out that intelligence agencies are, once again, doing whatever Obama tells them...
then isn't Trump doing the right thing by calling them out on their corruption?

Should the next President just allow these agencies to continue in corruption,
or should he do something about it?
 
J

jennymae

Guest
If by "significant part of American defense" we are referring to intelligence agencies...

it is empirically provable they should not be easily trusted.




When I have time, I'll just start listing more and more known, documented, proven instances of all their corruption.

It's virtually endless.
You're starting at the wrong end. Maybe you don't comprehend this? I'll say it again: The intelligence services are a significant part of the American defense. Should the President/President elect be working with them or against them?
 
J

jennymae

Guest
1. You are starting with a presumption.
This is provable by the way you state the question above... you say Trump is working AGAINST THEM... while never even considering it could be THEM working AGAINST TRUMP.

You are starting with the presumption that intelligence agencies COULD NOT be working against the President Elect.

Why would you START with that presumption?

Before considering facts, you are actually STARTING with this presumption.

Why would you just ASSUME if there is a conflict it must come from Trump, and not from intelligence services... who... btw... STILL HAVE A BOSS NAMED OBAMA till January 20.



2. For a few more days the intelligence agencies all have a boss, someone they answer to, someone who gives them orders.... a guy named Obama... who HATES Trump. Did this never occur to you?



3. Democrats can disparage the intelligence agencies, but republicans cannot... how odd.

Hillary has accused James Comey, head of the FBI, of working AGAINST HER!

Hillary accused James Comey of costing her the election?

So... only Democrats are allowed to have an issue with intelligence agencies?

Why aren't the Democrats attacking Hillary for talking bad about intelligence agencies?

Hillary has disparaged intelligence, but the Democrats only attack Trump when HE says something negative about intelligence.

So which is it?
Is there corruption in intelligence, or is there not?
Was Hillary right or wrong?
And even if Hillary was wrong, why do the Dems attack Trump for disparaging intelligence, but the Dems don't mind when Hillary disparages intelligance?



4. Question for you:

If the intelligence agencies ARE working against the President Elect,
who is about to be their new boss,
then SHOULDN'T HE CALL THEM OUT ON IT, AND FIX THE CORRUPTION?

If it does turn out that intelligence agencies are, once again, doing whatever Obama tells them...
then isn't Trump doing the right thing by calling them out on their corruption?

Should the next President just allow these agencies to continue in corruption,
or should he do something about it?
As you know I'm not a Democrat. So I don't know why you keep bringing that up. Are you a closet Democrat? Have you been paying attention to what Trump has been saying about the agencies of late? How much evidence do you need? Read his lips, he has said he doesn't believe in their conclusions. And please, bringing in the lame duck Esq., clearly proves that you do not understand what you are talking about. Think that over again, then come back to me.

As for his relationship with intelligence, he can't win this one, if he's not cooperating he'll end up on the losing end.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,367
2,444
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Jennymae,

It's ok.
Every couple days, as I have time, I'll just list more and more of the proven corruption the intelligence agencies have been involved in.

Not a big deal.
The corruption is endless.

Did you know another big scandal about the FBI just broke today out in California?
Yeah, all kinds of nasty things they were caught doing, then trying to cover it all up.

The corruption by intelligence agencies is endless, and there's something new almost every day.

:)
I'm sure you'll enjoy all my posts, documents, and article links.
 
J

jennymae

Guest
Jennymae,

It's ok.
Every couple days, as I have time, I'll just list more and more of the proven corruption the intelligence agencies have been involved in.

Not a big deal.
The corruption is endless.

Did you know another big scandal about the FBI just broke today out in California?
Yeah, all kinds of nasty things they were caught doing, then trying to cover it all up.

The corruption by intelligence agencies is endless, and there's something new almost every day.

:)
I'm sure you'll enjoy all my posts, documents, and article links.
You just don't get it, do you:) You are at the wrong end of the problem.
 

Sirk

Banned
Mar 2, 2016
8,896
112
0
As you know I'm not a Democrat. So I don't know why you keep bringing that up. Are you a closet Democrat? Have you been paying attention to what Trump has been saying about the agencies of late? How much evidence do you need? Read his lips, he has said he doesn't believe in their conclusions. And please, bringing in the lame duck Esq., clearly proves that you do not understand what you are talking about. Think that over again, then come back to me.

As for his relationship with intelligence, he can't win this one, if he's not cooperating he'll end up on the losing end.
Ummm....are we talking about the same CIA that loves to use their poppy fields in Afghanistan to supply countries they want to destabilize? You either trust these agencies or you just like to argue. Either way it is you who appears foolish to the discerning people of cc.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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From CEO Pay Has Grown 90 Times Faster than Typical Worker Pay Since 1978 | Economic Policy Institute

Over the last several decades, inflation-adjusted CEO compensation increased from $1.5 million in 1978 to $16.3 million in 2014, or 997 percent, a rise almost double stock market growth. Over the same time period, a typical worker’s wages grew very little: the annual compensation, adjusted for inflation, of the average private-sector production and nonsupervisory worker (comprising 82 percent of total payroll employment) rose from $48,000 in 1978 to just $53,200 in 2014, an increase of only 10.9 percent. Due to this unequal growth, average top CEOs now make over 300 times what typical workers earn. Although corporations are posting record-high profits and the stock market is booming, the wages of most workers remain stagnant, indicating they are not participating equally in prosperity. Meanwhile, CEO compensation continues to rise even faster than the stock market.

And from Top CEOs Make 300 Times More than Typical Workers: Pay Growth Surpasses Stock Gains and Wage Growth of Top 0.1 Percent | Economic Policy Institute

The chief executive officers of America’s largest firms earn three times more than they did 20 years ago and at least 10 times more than 30 years ago, big gains even relative to other very-high-wage earners. These extraordinary pay increases have had spillover effects in pulling up the pay of other executives and managers, who constitute a larger group of workers than is commonly recognized.1 Consequently, the growth of CEO and executive compensation overall was a major factor driving the doubling of the income shares of the top 1 percent and top 0.1 percent of U.S. households from 1979 to 2007 (Bivens and Mishel 2013; Bakija, Cole, and Heim 2012). Since then, income growth has remained unbalanced: as profits have reached record highs and the stock market has boomed, the wages of most workers, stagnant over the last dozen years, including during the prior recovery, have declined during this one (Bivens et al. 2014; Gould 2015) .
In examining trends in CEO compensation to determine how well the top 1 and 0.1 percent are faring through 2014, this paper finds:

  • Average CEO compensation for the largest firms was $16.3 million in 2014. This estimate uses a comprehensive measure of CEO pay that covers chief executives of the top 350 U.S. firms and includes the value of stock options exercised in a given year. Compensation is up 3.9 percent since 2013 and 54.3 percent since the recovery began in 2009.
  • From 1978 to 2014, inflation-adjusted CEO compensation increased 997 percent, a rise almost double stock market growth and substantially greater than the painfully slow 10.9 percent growth in a typical worker’s annual compensation over the same period.
  • The CEO-to-worker compensation ratio, 20-to-1 in 1965, peaked at 376-to-1 in 2000 and was 303-to-1 in 2014, far higher than in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, or 1990s.
In examining CEO compensation relative to that of other high earners, we find:

  • Over the last three decades, compensation for CEOs grew far faster than that of other highly paid workers, i.e., those earning more than 99.9 percent of wage earners. CEO compensation in 2013 (the latest year for data on top wage earners) was 5.84 times greater than wages of the top 0.1 percent of wage earners, a ratio 2.66 points higher than the 3.18 ratio that prevailed over the 1947–1979 period. This wage gain alone is equivalent to the wages of 2.66 very-high-wage earners.
  • Also over the last three decades, CEO compensation increased more relative to the pay of other very-high-wage earners than the wages of college graduates rose relative to the wages of high school graduates.
  • That CEO pay grew far faster than pay of the top 0.1 percent of wage earners indicates that CEO compensation growth does not simply reflect the increased value of highly paid professionals in a competitive race for skills (the “market for talent”), but rather reflects the presence of substantial “rents” embedded in executive pay (meaning CEO pay does not reflect greater productivity of executives but rather the power of CEOs to extract concessions). Consequently, if CEOs earned less or were taxed more, there would be no adverse impact on output or employment.
  • Critics of examining these trends suggest looking at the pay of the average CEO, not CEOs of the largest firms. However, the average firm is very small, employing just 20 workers, and does not represent a useful comparison to the pay of a typical worker who works in a firm with roughly 1,000 workers. Half (52 percent) of employment and 58 percent of total payroll are in firms with more than 500 or more employees. Firms with at least 10,000 workers provide 27.9 percent of all employment and 31.4 percent of all payroll.

I could go on but I'm trying to keep this down to 2 screens ;)
I read every word, and all I really saw was that the big guys make big money.

I believe you were accusing them of cheating the average worker. How?

Is not the average worker making the wage he agreed to work for? Yes, he is.

And is not the average worker working the hours he agreed to work? Yes, he is.

And is not the average worker getting all the sick days he agreed to? Yes, he is.

And was not the average worker getting the insurance he agreed to before ObamaCare ruined that perk? Yes, he was.

And, is not the average worker getting the vacations he agreed to? Yes, he is.

And, is not the average worker getting the pay increases their contracts stipulate? Yes, they are.

Since all of us know that the people who have invested more in terms of education, time, responsibility and risk make more money..... I would say that if you want their money, apply for their jobs instead of satisfying yourself to work a 9 to 5.

Don't try to tell me a man is getting cheated when he is getting exactly what he agreed to work for.... and often (because of generous employers) some extra perks not contracted for.
 
Last edited:

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
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Might be because the time limit is only five minutes.
CC works on a different clock to most people. Their five minutes are often shorter than expected
 
J

jennymae

Guest


I read every word, and all I really saw was that the big guys make big money.

I believe you were accusing them of cheating the average worker. How?

Is not the average worker making the wage he agreed to work for? Yes, he is.

And is not the average worker working the hours he agreed to work? Yes, he is.

And is not the average worker getting all the sick days he agreed to? Yes, he is.

And was not the average worker getting the insurance he agreed to before ObamaCare ruined that perk? Yes, he was.

And, is not the average worker getting the vacations he agreed to? Yes, he is.

And, is not the average worker getting the pay increases their contracts stipulate? Yes, they are.

Since all of us know that the people who have invested more in terms of education, time, responsibility and risk make more money..... I would say that if you want their money, apply for their jobs instead of satisfying yourself to work a 9 to 5.

Don't try to tell me a man is getting cheated when he is getting exactly what he agreed to work for.... and often (because of generous employers) some extra perks not contracted for.
I agree. People just see the upside and want a big chunk of the cake that you have made. They don't think about all the misery you went through on your way there.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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CC works on a different clock to most people. Their five minutes are often shorter than expected
The whole world seems to work on a different clock for some people. LOL