Continuationism or Cessationism

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Depleted

Guest
#81
There's only one scripture used to verify cessationist's claims, & it's twisted to mean something it doesn't.

ALL the cessationists I've encountered REFUSE to read a commentary concerning 1Cor 13: 8-12

They say you can't trust the writings of men..... right.

New American Standard Bible
2Cor 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you.
EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES.

So what I do is check at least three commentaries for meaning & confirmation. If I'm still suspicious, I go then to the Greek or Hebrew.

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
But when that which is perfect is come - Does come; or shall come. This proposition is couched in a general form. It means that when anything which is perfect is seen or enjoyed, then that which is imperfect is forgotten, laid aside, or vanishes. Thus, in the full and perfect light of day, the imperfect and feeble light of the stars vanishes.
The sense here is, that "in heaven" - a state of absolute perfection - that which is "in part," or which is imperfect, shall be lost in superior brightness. All imperfection will vanish. And all that we here possess that is obscure shall be lost in the superior and perfect glory of that eternal world. All our present unsatisfactory modes of obtaining knowledge shall be unknown. All shall be clear, bright, and eternal.

Matthew Poole's Commentary
But when we come to heaven, we shall be in such a state, as nothing shall or can be added to us; then our partial and imperfect knowledge shall be swallowed up in a knowledge perfect and complete.

Bengel's Gnomen
1 Corinthians 13:10. Ἔλθῃ, is come) in its own time, by degrees, not by a sudden bound. In spiritual things, those of weaker age ought not too eagerly to aim at what belongs to those, who have reached greater maturity. That, which is perfect, comes at death; 2 Corinthians 5:7 : and at the last day.—τότε, then) not before. Therefore prophecy and knowledge never entirely pass away in this life.

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Strong's Concordance
teleios: having reached its end, i.e. complete, by ext. perfect
Original Word: τέλειος, α, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: teleios
Phonetic Spelling: (tel'-i-os)
Short Definition: perfect, full-grown
Definition: perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character.HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 5046 téleios (an adjective, derived from
5056/télos, "consummated goal") – mature (consummated) from going through the necessary stages to reach the end-goal, i.e. developed into a consummating completion by fulfilling the necessary process (spiritual journey). See 5056 (telos).
[This root (tel-) means "reaching the end (aim)." It is well-illustrated with the old pirate's telescope, unfolding (extending out) one stage at a time to function at full-strength (capacity effectiveness).]
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from
telos
Definition
having reached its end, i.e. complete, by ext. perfect
NASB Translation
complete (2), mature (4), more perfect (1), perfect (12).Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 5046: τέλειος

τέλειος, τελεία, τέλειον (τέλος), in classic Greek sometimes also τέλειος, τέλειον (cf. Winers Grammar, § 11,1), from Homer down, the Sept. several times for שָׁלֵם, תָּמִים, etc.; properly, brought to its end, finished; lacking nothing necessary to completeness; perfect: ἔργον,
James 1:4; ἡ ἀγάπη, 1 John 4:18; ὁ νόμος, James 1:25; (δώρημα, James 1:17); τελειοτερα σκηνή, a more perfect (excellent) tabernacle, Hebrews 9:11; τό τέλειον, substantively, that which is perfect: consummate human integrity and virtue, Romans 12:2 (others take it here as an adjective belonging to θέλημα); the perfect state of all things, to be ushered in by the return of Christ from heaven, 1 Corinthians 13:10;

Since this is when we get to Heaven, that means there's absolutely no scriptural evidence for cessationism at all.

For continuationism, there's no expiration date mentioned anywhere for the baptism of the Holy Spirit or the spiritual gifts.
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[/TR]
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Actually, not only do the cessationists in my denomination trust commentaries, they wrote some of them too. But they are commentaries, not topics, so I never read the one on 1 Corinthians. I heard the denominational take on gifts in the prerequisite class given to folks who want to join the church. The pitch was pretty much, "As a church, we don't believe in the gifts. This isn't doctrine, but if you can't accept that you might not want to join."

As it happens, hubby speaks in tongues. I don't. He had no problem joining anyway. It's also not cool to speak in tongues if it offends people. He simply does it at home.

Please don't put down cessationists. This isn't a point of doctrine that all must believe.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
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#82
Actually, not only do the cessationists in my denomination trust commentaries, they wrote some of them too. But they are commentaries, not topics, so I never read the one on 1 Corinthians. I heard the denominational take on gifts in the prerequisite class given to folks who want to join the church. The pitch was pretty much, "As a church, we don't believe in the gifts. This isn't doctrine, but if you can't accept that you might not want to join."

As it happens, hubby speaks in tongues. I don't. He had no problem joining anyway. It's also not cool to speak in tongues if it offends people. He simply does it at home.

Please don't put down cessationists. This isn't a point of doctrine that all must believe.
I disagree. God's word says to not quench the Holy Spirit and what greater way than to deny the gifts He gives, to operate in power for the edification of others? People often point to tenets of the faith and then other doctrines as arguable but the truth is the truth. Truth is absolute, not subjective. Yes, certain doctrines can be points of contention but they are of great importance.

God saw it fit to equip His church and Cessationism is a belief that disarms believers. They have been equipped and yet stripped of what is theirs due to a doctrine of disbelief. Cessationists shouldn't be put down but surely Cessationism ought to be.

This is a doctrine of great importance, especially in consideration of works and rewards. This is a doctrine that has an eternal effect, an effect on quality of life if you will. Not only that, it a doctrine that all should believe, the gifts of the Spirit still being in operation today, because people still need edifying, exhortation, and comfort.

You say this isn't a doctrine all must believe, and yet God's word warns of quenching the Holy Spirit. Cessationism is arrogant, and prideful to the degree that it is nearly blasphemous. People need to operate in these gifts, not because I think so, but because God has clearly thought so in equipping His church with them. To deny them is to be opposed to God's will on the matter. Plain and simple.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
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#83
"If private revelations agree with scriptures, they are needless; if they disagree, they are false" John Owen

it seems that for 1800 years Christians were quite fine without the signs and wonders gifts. :) its only a recent resurfacing that has gone as John Macarthur would say 'charismatic chaos' on us.
What a total spiritually myopic disbelieving attitude!
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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#84
the gibberish-speaking and false prophets abounding proves they ceased
Another spiritually myopic disbelieving "nepios"!
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#85
Please don't put down cessationists. This isn't a point of doctrine that all must believe.
I didn't, ma'am. Just stated the facts, & only the facts. I have only met these on here, so I can only tell you what I've heard here.
 
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popeye

Guest
#86
Well,I WILL CONCEDE that apparently knowledge has completely ceased if they think the gifts has vanished for some bizarre made up reason.
 
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popeye

Guest
#87
Oh,wait,if speaking in tongues is just another known language to be interpreted for those of another country,then the cessationist would have to relent.

So 2 gifts are allowed back in the table,right?
 
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popeye

Guest
#88
the gibberish-speaking and false prophets abounding proves they ceased
Under your same template,all the "saints" operating in unconfessed sin and godlessness proves there is no such thing as salvation
 
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Depleted

Guest
#89
I didn't, ma'am. Just stated the facts, & only the facts. I have only met these on here, so I can only tell you what I've heard here.
Howdy-do then. Let me introduce myself. I'm the concessionist-cessationist. lol

More a neither-nor thing. A hybrid of both beliefs. (Or, possibly, I devolved.
:confused:) I believe in most gifts. Technically all gifts. I simply don't believe one of the gifts -- prophecy -- means fortune-telling/future-telling. I don't think one of the offices (that most think of as a gift) is around anymore. (Apostle.) And, I am suspect on tongue-talking. I know some who say they speak the "angelic language" merely faked it to fit in. They might even think they're really doing that, but I can pick out the chant of the words, and it's a small portion of nonsensical syllables struck together repeated all the time. And yet, then there is hubby, who I trust completely, and a few folks on this forum who I also trust and they speak in tongues. So, suspect -- not a nonbeliever.

And that is the heart of many cessationists. They see the misuse and abuse. If that's it in today's society, (which it isn't, but it's hard to see the full society, when living in just one portion of it), skip it.

Meanwhile, they don't realize they didn't skip it at all. They do have elders that minister; i.e. operate in the gifts of helps, mercy, word of knowledge, word of wisdom, discernment, and, of course, faith.

They pray for healing and even anoint with oil.

They praise God if they see the miracle or if God goes with "natural outcome."

They teach, preach, and evangelize.

And yet... they believe gifts are done. It's kind of weird actually, but I think their heart is in the right place. They're just suspect, like I am, because of the misuse and abuse.

Ya ever notice, most don't like talking about the misuse and abuse?
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,091
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#90
One of the problems with cessationism is that it does not conform to what actually happened in history. Why would the gifts like speaking in tongues, healing, and prophesying have continued after the death of the apostles, like reading those who are often called 'church fathers' demonstrates? Why the references to prophesying, to speaking in tongues, healing, raising the dead, and casting out demons.

Justin Martyr argued with the Jew Trypho that his people did not have prophets, but the church did. The Shepherd of Hermas, which was read in 2nd century churches, writes in a bit of detail about prophesying in the churches during that era. No matter what you think of the work, it shows the belief of Christians that the gift of prophecy continued. If you read the critics of Montanism in Eusebius' writings, you see that they affirmed the gift of prophecy for the church, but did not believe that Montanus was the real deal. And after Montanus died, Montanists were cessationists, and the church were continuationists.

B.B. Warfield wrote a book in which he presented a cessationist theory he invented that some cessationists believe today. One of the problems for Warfield was Ireneaus. Ireneaus was a historical champion of orthodoxy. He wrote 'Against Heresies', pointing out the error in the various heresies that had arisen, some of which mimicked Christian practice or doctrine. He was a missionary to what is now France.

Ireneaus wrote of the brethren in his own day who spoke in tongues, cast out demons, had foreknowledge, prophesied, and raised the dead. In one of his works, he wrote how he considered rejecting prophesying to be a characteristic of the heretics. He even wrote how his own church had had success at raising the dead like the apostles did.

Warfield proposed a theory that those one whom the apostles had laid their hands could operate in these spiritual gifts, the supernatural ones, which happened to be the ones that didn't fit with the philosophical thinking of Warfield's error, but that these gifts died out after those the apostles had laid their hands on died. Ireneaus lived in a time when, as a younger man, he knew those on whom the apostles had laid their hands. So, he thought Ireneaus was just mistaken about the idea that these gifts could continue later, and just thought the things he saw as a young man could still continue around 200 AD or so when he was writing.

Of course, there are some problems with this. One is, why would Ireneaus have written about his church raising the dead if it weren't true. Why would write about these things as if they were still going on at about 200 AD?

The biggest problem with Warfield's theory is that the Bible does not teach it. It is not apostolic teaching. It is not part of the 'faith once delivered unto the saints', but rather contradicts it.

It is true that the Bible demonstrates that certain spiritual gifts can be imparted through the laying on of hands, but other scripture shows that gifts can also be imparted without the laying on of hands. Warfield's theory rests on basing doctrine on certain scriptures, going beyond what the text asserts, and ignoring other scripture.

Saul of Tarsus received the Holy Ghost. No apostles laid hands on him. Ananias, a disciple and devout Jew did. Prophets and teachers laid hands on him. He did miracles. Timothy received one spiritual gift through prophecy with the laying on of hands of the elders. The Gentiles in Cornelius' house spoke in tongues when Peter was preaching to them. They hadn't been baptized yet. And Acts 2 and other passages do not teach that the laying on of hands is necessary to receive the Holy Spirit. In Acts 8, the Spirit fall upon the Samaritans when the apostles laid hands on them. But the Bible does not teach that the Spirit is limited to only Act through the apostles hands.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,634
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#91
Thank you brother, a great post with great evidence.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#92
I always hesitate to post in a thread that is off page 1 of the BDF, but here goes... a compound question for the Cessationists (others are welcome to respond too):

You (generally) claim that prophecy and knowledge have passed away, so how does God lead you in everyday life? Do you simply open your Bible and start reading, thinking that He will speak to you through the Word, regardless of what passage you read or what the issues in your life are?
Do you ever sense God speaking to you outside of Scripture? How is this possible, if prophecy and knowledge have passed?
If you don't ever sense this personal communication, how do you understand Jesus' statement, "My sheep hear My voice" and the statement that the Holy Spirit will remind you of all truth? What is the difference between knowledge/prophecy and hearing the leading of the Holy Spirit?
If you do sense this kind of leading, what is the difference between receiving it for yourself and receiving it for someone else?
Finally, in what sense has knowledge passed away, according to your understanding?

Please understand... I am NOT claiming that extra-biblical communication carries the same weight as Scripture, so please save your critical rhetoric on that point. Also, I am NOT seeking understanding in general of what prophecy, knowledge or the leading of the HS are; rather, I am asking how YOU understand these things in light of a belief in cessationism.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,091
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#93
The following page has an interesting article from the perspective of a proponent of covenant theology. Here are some interesting quotes:



The Truly Covenantal and Reformed View of Prophecy (and of the Other Gifts) I | Christendom Restored
I have been asked many times to write this thesis, and I have always replied that it is very difficult for me to do it. Not because my position is not supported by the Bible; to the contrary, the Bible is full with support of what is called by some “continuationism,” that is, the view of the continuing validity of the spiritual gifts of 1 Cor. 12-14 in our present times. Not because my position is not supported by historical theology; to the contrary, cessationism as a systematic doctrine didn’t appear until long after the Enlightenment hit the church, in the second half of the 19th century. Before that, there were only isolated statements gleaned out of context from isolated names here and there, while the practice and the teaching and the beliefs of the church were in favor of God continuing to lead and guide His people throughout history by all means He has given in the Bible, including miraculous and revelatory gifts. Contrary to the cessationist claims, the question is not “Where were the Charismatics for the last 19 centuries?” but “Where were the cessationists before the second half of the 19th century?” Not because my professed theological tradition—the theology of the Reformation—doesn’t support the view of the continuing validity and operation of the gifts today. To the contrary, Calvin very clearly rejects the nonsense and ingnorance of cessationism in his commentary on 1 Cor. 13, and a careful reading of 1 Cor. 12-14 shows that he expected specifically the gift of prophecy to be operational in the church today. The practice of the Reformers and their heirs is also on my side, given the multitude of prophecies and miracles performed by Reformed ministers from John Knox to Charles Spurgeon, and reported by many Reformed missionaries.

He makes some valid points. There are plenty of examples of revelatory type things from accounts of the Scottish Reformation and later. I think Calvin basically redefines 'prophesy' in his writings. Overall, he makes some really good points.


He quotes something he had written recently.


I will never be able to understand, Don, how grown up men can read what the plain text of Scripture and the Reformers say on this issue, beat themselves in the chest that they are “Reformed” and “sola scriptura,” and then turn around and argue vehemently for exactly the opposite to what Scripture and the Reformers say. This complete inability in so many churchian celebrities—like Wilson and MacArthur—to think clearly on such a simple Biblical issue is beyond my powers to explain or even comprehend. I can’t comprehend how an otherwise very meticulous theologian like Warfield can admit that “there isn’t a single word in Scripture” in support of his theory of the purpose of the gifts, and then in the next sentence claim that he is Biblical in his theory. I can’t comprehend how one can be so completely illogical as to claim to reject experientialism as a valid argument, and then use only experiential arguments to prove his point. I can’t comprehend how one can reject the possibility for any true prophets today (the very essence of cessationism) and then turn around and use an argument that presupposes the existence of true prophets today (Deut. 18). I can’t comprehend how one can criticize dispensationalism for dividing history into separate unrelated economies, and then turn around and use, in other areas, one of dispensationalism’s most established arguments. It seems to me that cessationism must be based on a complete black out of the brain. It is the most irrational and illogical doctrine in our Reformed churches today, and I can’t comprehend why people can’t see it. I mean, if it was some complex theological truth, like the Trinity, I can understand. But how is this possible when very simple, clear, direct Biblical texts are involved, and very simple, clear, direct teachings and practice of the Reformers are involved?


This is what makes it difficult for me to write an article on it. I just can’t comprehend why something so blatantly obviously Biblical like the spiritual gifts needs to be defended against something so blatantly irrational and illogical and un-Biblical like cessationism. I can’t shake off the thought that it needs not arguments but diagnosis.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#94
The doctrine of spiritual gifts is one of the things I am currently on the fence about. Men I admire greatly are arrayed on the side of both continuation of relevatory gifts and the cessation of them.

I see room for abuse of doctrines on both sides- on one extreme there is tendency for a cold reduction of the spiritual realm. An over-rationalization of the spiritual. On the other this crazed cacophony of baseless prophetic assertions and bizarre behavior.

Going by the text alone, I find myself being Cessationist one day and Continuationist the next to the point I suspect it's all dependent on how I brew my coffee in the morning.

So I'm leaving it to you, Christian Chat.

Where do you tend to fall- Cessation or Continuation?

Why?

Are there Biblical limitations you see that stop you from falling into the two extremes mentioned above?
Cessationist on certain things like Jesus walking this earth in an Earthly body.

Still not sure about topics like modern day Apostles, miraculous healing, speaking in tongues....have heard stories, so admit it's possible but no first hand experience.

Continuationism on the topic of believers still receiving the Holy Spirit and spiritual gifts to operate as part of the Body of Christ.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,057
1,032
113
New Zealand
#95
I always hesitate to post in a thread that is off page 1 of the BDF, but here goes... a compound question for the Cessationists (others are welcome to respond too):

You (generally) claim that prophecy and knowledge have passed away, so how does God lead you in everyday life? Do you simply open your Bible and start reading, thinking that He will speak to you through the Word, regardless of what passage you read or what the issues in your life are?
Do you ever sense God speaking to you outside of Scripture? How is this possible, if prophecy and knowledge have passed?
If you don't ever sense this personal communication, how do you understand Jesus' statement, "My sheep hear My voice" and the statement that the Holy Spirit will remind you of all truth? What is the difference between knowledge/prophecy and hearing the leading of the Holy Spirit?
If you do sense this kind of leading, what is the difference between receiving it for yourself and receiving it for someone else?
Finally, in what sense has knowledge passed away, according to your understanding?

Please understand... I am NOT claiming that extra-biblical communication carries the same weight as Scripture, so please save your critical rhetoric on that point. Also, I am NOT seeking understanding in general of what prophecy, knowledge or the leading of the HS are; rather, I am asking how YOU understand these things in light of a belief in cessationism.
Read New Testament passages that do apply to christians now, apply to them to your life.. and God will direct your path and speak to you in the quiet, soul deep way.

This means applying verses that you know from the NT that haven't been limited to the time they are in. There is a large amount of NT scripture applied to running churches now that you can apply.. to running a church and individually to a church member.

The Holy Spirit does guide, direct, rebuke, admonish, discipline correct, etc.. but the tools of using tongues, knowledge, prophecy, ministry gifts have been put down. Faith, hope and love are of course remaining abiding gifts in everyday life for the
believer.

The GIFT of knowledge has passed away.. not knowledge in general.. big difference. This gift of knowledge in NT times was for knowledge of God's revelation in His Word.

All the work God did in forming His early churches, empowering believers through signs and wonders, knowledge and prophecy etc.. it's for special, particular purposes. For establishing His Word by inspiring His followers.

There is no need now for this exceptional occurences. Why would God need to continue with this specialised purpose work?

Like a dad giving his children a whole lot of special things as infants, meant for there time.. then later the children want the same things.. but they have matured beyond the need for it all. He still loves them and will give them other things appropriate for them, but not the things associated with their immature, child like state.

Perfection in the bible is about maturity. Going on to maturity and putting away childish ways, immature ways.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
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#96
If someone claims a direct word of knowledge are they not claiming they've received a information from God equal to the authority and value of scripture?
Hi Desdichado, My understanding of a word of knowledge would be like Jesus in Samaria speaking with the woman at the well.

She had five husbands and the man she was with wasted her husband. So a word of knowledge would be the Holy Spirit giving knowledge to you about someone for the purpose of evangelizing as you share the gospel for instance. I'm sure it could be used in other ways too.
 
Nov 23, 2016
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#97
Cessationist on certain things like Jesus walking this earth in an Earthly body.

Still not sure about topics like modern day Apostles, miraculous healing, speaking in tongues....have heard stories, so admit it's possible but no first hand experience.

Continuationism on the topic of believers still receiving the Holy Spirit and spiritual gifts to operate as part of the Body of Christ.
Wouldn't we know who today's apostles are, if in fact, they are amongst us ? Complete nonsense contrived of the flesh .. and ego. I have yet to receive an answer from anybody that believes in apostles and prophets today to name one. Maybe somebody here on CC can name one ?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#98
Apostles are "sent ones". There are no more apostles in the form of the original 12 but there have been many apostles throughout time. There are least 24 mentioned in the NT - 25 - if you count Jesus. ( Hebrews 3:1 )

Apostles are "sent ones" for a purpose from the Lord Jesus Christ like Paul was an apostle ( sent one ) to the Gentiles. Some were 'sent ones" to the Jews.

If there are no more apostles or prophets - then that means we have grown up to the full stature of Christ and there are no more evangelists, pastors, or teachers.

Jesus gave us all these gifts so that we would grow up.

Ephesians 4:11-13 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

[SUP]12 [/SUP] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

[SUP]13 [/SUP] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Notice that here it is God that has set apostles and prophets in the church - is the church still here on this earth?

1 Corinthians 12:28-29 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.


 
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Ariel82

Guest
#99
Wouldn't we know who today's apostles are, if in fact, they are amongst us ? Complete nonsense contrived of the flesh .. and ego. I have yet to receive an answer from anybody that believes in apostles and prophets today to name one. Maybe somebody here on CC can name one ?
I have heard "apostles" oversee churches..,paul was an apostle and evangelist. He both planted new churchs and nurtures established ones.

So if you define the office of apostle in that manner and not equal to the 12 Apostles. Then I am okay with it.

For example I know some church hierarchy that have minister, bishop, etc...

An apostle would be the bishop.


That being said I don't agree with the people who split the world up into their personal domains like the demons do and claim to be the Apostle of Africa, or N. America, etc.

So it depends on how folks define it.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,091
1,754
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What I see in scripture is that in Matthew, Jesus said to pray the Lord of the harvest to send forth laborers into His harvest. Then he went up on a mountain and prayed all night. He then appointed twelve disciples and designated them apostles. He told them to heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils. Freely ye have received, he said, freely give. And he said to preach 'Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.' This is the first time they are called 'apostles' in Acts.

In one Gospel, they are first called 'apostles' after they return from their preaching journey.

One passage He chose 12 that they might be with Him and that he might send them out to preach. (Apostle means sent one.)

In Acts 13, seven prophets and teachers from the church in Antioch were ministering to the Lord and fasting. The Spirit spoke to separate Barnabas and Saul to the work to which He had called them. They laid hands on them, and the two men went forth, being sent by the Holy Ghost. They preached, new churches were formed, and they appointed elders.

Acts first calls Barnabas and Saul 'apostles' after their sending out in Acts 13. See Acts 14:4, and 14:14 to see where they are called 'apostles.'

A common element here is that the Lord, Christ Himself, and later through the Spirit, sent the men out. Their ministry involved preaching the Gospel, in some cases in new territories where the foundation of Christ had not been laid. They introduced the Gospel to new areas. Paul, Silvanus and Timothy had a 'measure of rule' that extended to areas where they introduced the Gospel of Christ. They seem to refer to themselves as 'apostles of Christ' in one passage.