A one word mistranslation can be misleading
- Thread starter EarsToHear
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A funny thing I've noticed lately. There are two generations of people who are sure they have all the answers, so must teach all others -- the 20-somethings and the 60-and-over set. (Please note my age. lol)
How did it happen that once every other generation an entire generation is bequeathed with all knowledge? How do the other generations survive not being omniscient?
Orrrrr, do y'all just roll your eyes often over those of us who are omniscient?
How did it happen that once every other generation an entire generation is bequeathed with all knowledge? How do the other generations survive not being omniscient?
Orrrrr, do y'all just roll your eyes often over those of us who are omniscient?
A funny thing I've noticed lately. There are two generations of people who are sure they have all the answers, so must teach all others -- the 20-somethings and the 60-and-over set. (Please note my age. lol)
How did it happen that once every other generation an entire generation is bequeathed with all knowledge? How do the other generations survive not being omniscient?
Orrrrr, do y'all just roll your eyes often over those of us who are omniscient?
How did it happen that once every other generation an entire generation is bequeathed with all knowledge? How do the other generations survive not being omniscient?
Orrrrr, do y'all just roll your eyes often over those of us who are omniscient?
yeah I know......
-In the beginning was God and the word. John 1
-then the Angeles where made, and Lucifer - Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy.
-then the heavens and the earth was made.
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Isaiah 45:18 (KJV)
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth
and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited:
I am the Lord; and there is none else.
-
"Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom
by reason of thy brightness." Ezekiel 28:17.
"Thou hast said in thine heart, . . . I will exalt [my throne] above the stars of God. . . .
I will be like the Most High." Isaiah 14:13, 14.
Luke 10:18 (KJV)
And he said unto them, I beheld [past]Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
For Satan is now the "god of this age" (2 Corinthians 4:4)
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested,
that he might destroy the works of the devil.(1 john 3:8)
'How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
You said in your heart, “I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne above the stars of God;' Isaiah 14;
-we know astroids hit the earth killing dinasours, also the earth was coverd with water
one example is Dinosaur Tracks, The expanse of fossils and footprints,
Navajo Indian reservation, attests to a dramatic moment in Earth’s history.
The site lies some miles north of an ancient meteoric crater, and the story seems
relatively clear from the evidence left behind. the majority of the footprints seem
to face the direction of the crater, allmost like transfixed by a fiery display in the sky.
When the meteor hit, scorching heat burst in all directions, baking this dinosaur community
right into earth—the footprints, the eggs, the dung and even an almost-entire dinosaur skeleton
-Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void;
Psalms 104:30 (KJV)
Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.
-In 6 days God renewed the face of the earth and what is above us.
Satan had already been cast down, and had already rebelled against God by the time
of Adam and Eve; that is proven by his already being in his role of tempter against
Eve in God's Garden. "that old serpent"
Nothing is written right after Adam's fall that shows God at that time
put His entire creation into bondage, it didn't happen then.
Nor did the flood of Noah's day represent God placing His creation into bondage;
all He did was cleanse the surface of His creation of Genesis 1.
There's no repeat of Gen.1 type events after the flood of Noah's days.
The waters receded, and there was the earth underneath as before,
the animals on the ark simply re-populated it.
Thus "the heavens and the earth, which are now" of 2 Pet.3, which is also ordained
to be destroyed by fire, is His creation from Gen.1 all the way up to the future new
heavens, and a new earth timing. It's this creation of now that God put into bondage
to vanity per Apostle Paul in Romans 8.
So when was God's creation a perfect creation, and not in bondage to vanity?
The creation of Rom.8 cannot be desiring and hoping for a release from
bondage if it had not at first been perfect and not in bondage sometime before.
Was there a time when Satan was perfect in his ways, and served God right at
His Throne? Yes, per the parable in Ezekiel 28. That was when God's first perfect
creation was manifested and not in bondage to vanity. Satan is who caused God
to put it into bondage when he first rebelled against God.
Heb 12:25-27
25 See that ye refuse not Him That speaketh. For if they escaped not who
refused Him That spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn
away from Him That speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now He hath promised, saying,
"Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven."
27 And this word, 'Yet once more', signifieth the removing of those things
that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot
be shaken may remain.
That Hebrews 12 Scripture is declaring that God once more will shake
not the earth only,but also heaven. That description comes from Scripture
like Isaiah 2, Isaiah 13, and Haggai 2 about the future when God will cause
this earth to tremble in removing the 'elements' of man's works off it (2 Pet.3:10).
Why the phrase "once more" though, which points to at least one previous time
that He shook the earth to that level?
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be
compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us …”
“For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God;
for the creation [all the suns, planets, stars, moons] was subjected to futility,
not of its own will but by the will of him who subjected it in hope;because the creation itself
will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God.
We know that the whole creation [stars, suns and moons now in decay and futility]
has been groaning in travail together until now; and not only the creation but we ourselves
[we Spirit-begotten humans], who have the first fruits of the Spirit [the “firstfruits”]
groan inwardly as we wait for the [birth] as sons”.
At His return to Earth in power and glory those who have been converted and received
God’s Holy Spirit shall be born into the God Family by a resurrection.
Why should the whole universe—the creation—be waiting with eager longing
for the actual birth and appearing of all these sons of God, to be born into the Family of God?
“Because the creation itself [the universe not now capable of sustaining life] will be
set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty
“For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed
the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it
to be inhabited:I am the Lord; and there is none else.”
God says that the universe—not just the Earth—was designed to be inhabited.
It wasn’t created in vain, to be simply an ornament. It was created for a purpose.
Isaiah 66:8
Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day?
or shall [a nation be born at once]? for as soon as Zion travailed,
she brought forth her children.
-a nation will be born in one day, at Christs return, into spirit beings.
In Isaiah 51:16, God says, “And I have put my words in thy mouth,
and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand,
that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations
of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.”
Isaiah 14
3And it shall come to pass in [the day that the Lord shall give thee rest] from thy sorrow,
and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
7The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
few questions
-why did angeles shout for joy when the earth was made?
what was the origanal habitation [that they left]of the angeles?
when did Lucifer sin and become satan?
when was satan made god of this world?
when was the universe put in bondage[ now in decay and futility] no life ?
when was the earth shaken in the past?
-then the Angeles where made, and Lucifer - Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy.
-then the heavens and the earth was made.
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Isaiah 45:18 (KJV)
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth
and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited:
I am the Lord; and there is none else.
-
"Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom
by reason of thy brightness." Ezekiel 28:17.
"Thou hast said in thine heart, . . . I will exalt [my throne] above the stars of God. . . .
I will be like the Most High." Isaiah 14:13, 14.
Luke 10:18 (KJV)
And he said unto them, I beheld [past]Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
For Satan is now the "god of this age" (2 Corinthians 4:4)
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested,
that he might destroy the works of the devil.(1 john 3:8)
'How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
You said in your heart, “I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne above the stars of God;' Isaiah 14;
-we know astroids hit the earth killing dinasours, also the earth was coverd with water
one example is Dinosaur Tracks, The expanse of fossils and footprints,
Navajo Indian reservation, attests to a dramatic moment in Earth’s history.
The site lies some miles north of an ancient meteoric crater, and the story seems
relatively clear from the evidence left behind. the majority of the footprints seem
to face the direction of the crater, allmost like transfixed by a fiery display in the sky.
When the meteor hit, scorching heat burst in all directions, baking this dinosaur community
right into earth—the footprints, the eggs, the dung and even an almost-entire dinosaur skeleton
-Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void;
Psalms 104:30 (KJV)
Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.
-In 6 days God renewed the face of the earth and what is above us.
Satan had already been cast down, and had already rebelled against God by the time
of Adam and Eve; that is proven by his already being in his role of tempter against
Eve in God's Garden. "that old serpent"
Nothing is written right after Adam's fall that shows God at that time
put His entire creation into bondage, it didn't happen then.
Nor did the flood of Noah's day represent God placing His creation into bondage;
all He did was cleanse the surface of His creation of Genesis 1.
There's no repeat of Gen.1 type events after the flood of Noah's days.
The waters receded, and there was the earth underneath as before,
the animals on the ark simply re-populated it.
Thus "the heavens and the earth, which are now" of 2 Pet.3, which is also ordained
to be destroyed by fire, is His creation from Gen.1 all the way up to the future new
heavens, and a new earth timing. It's this creation of now that God put into bondage
to vanity per Apostle Paul in Romans 8.
So when was God's creation a perfect creation, and not in bondage to vanity?
The creation of Rom.8 cannot be desiring and hoping for a release from
bondage if it had not at first been perfect and not in bondage sometime before.
Was there a time when Satan was perfect in his ways, and served God right at
His Throne? Yes, per the parable in Ezekiel 28. That was when God's first perfect
creation was manifested and not in bondage to vanity. Satan is who caused God
to put it into bondage when he first rebelled against God.
Heb 12:25-27
25 See that ye refuse not Him That speaketh. For if they escaped not who
refused Him That spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn
away from Him That speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now He hath promised, saying,
"Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven."
27 And this word, 'Yet once more', signifieth the removing of those things
that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot
be shaken may remain.
That Hebrews 12 Scripture is declaring that God once more will shake
not the earth only,but also heaven. That description comes from Scripture
like Isaiah 2, Isaiah 13, and Haggai 2 about the future when God will cause
this earth to tremble in removing the 'elements' of man's works off it (2 Pet.3:10).
Why the phrase "once more" though, which points to at least one previous time
that He shook the earth to that level?
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be
compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us …”
“For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God;
for the creation [all the suns, planets, stars, moons] was subjected to futility,
not of its own will but by the will of him who subjected it in hope;because the creation itself
will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God.
We know that the whole creation [stars, suns and moons now in decay and futility]
has been groaning in travail together until now; and not only the creation but we ourselves
[we Spirit-begotten humans], who have the first fruits of the Spirit [the “firstfruits”]
groan inwardly as we wait for the [birth] as sons”.
At His return to Earth in power and glory those who have been converted and received
God’s Holy Spirit shall be born into the God Family by a resurrection.
Why should the whole universe—the creation—be waiting with eager longing
for the actual birth and appearing of all these sons of God, to be born into the Family of God?
“Because the creation itself [the universe not now capable of sustaining life] will be
set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty
“For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed
the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it
to be inhabited:I am the Lord; and there is none else.”
God says that the universe—not just the Earth—was designed to be inhabited.
It wasn’t created in vain, to be simply an ornament. It was created for a purpose.
Isaiah 66:8
Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day?
or shall [a nation be born at once]? for as soon as Zion travailed,
she brought forth her children.
-a nation will be born in one day, at Christs return, into spirit beings.
In Isaiah 51:16, God says, “And I have put my words in thy mouth,
and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand,
that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations
of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.”
Isaiah 14
3And it shall come to pass in [the day that the Lord shall give thee rest] from thy sorrow,
and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
7The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
few questions
-why did angeles shout for joy when the earth was made?
what was the origanal habitation [that they left]of the angeles?
when did Lucifer sin and become satan?
when was satan made god of this world?
when was the universe put in bondage[ now in decay and futility] no life ?
when was the earth shaken in the past?
the Earth became without form and void (see Genesis 19:26 where the same
Hebrew verb is used stating how Lot’s wife became a pillar of salt).
Gen 1:2 And the earth was H1961 without form,
Gen 19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him,
and she became H1961 a pillar of salt.
H1961
היה
hâyâh
haw-yaw'
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass
(always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether,
be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue,
do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.
Hebrew verb is used stating how Lot’s wife became a pillar of salt).
Gen 1:2 And the earth was H1961 without form,
Gen 19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him,
and she became H1961 a pillar of salt.
H1961
היה
hâyâh
haw-yaw'
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass
(always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether,
be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue,
do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.
Why debate? Nothing needs to be corrected.
Just let the Word of God determine what the Word 'was' means...
Jeremiah 4:23
"I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light"
Whoa! What happened?
Why "was" the Earth without form and void?
Jeremiah 4:26
"I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger"
Ah, that's why!
Because God destroyed it himself.
Just let the Word of God determine what the Word 'was' means...
Jeremiah 4:23
"I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light"
Whoa! What happened?
Why "was" the Earth without form and void?
Jeremiah 4:26
"I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger"
Ah, that's why!
Because God destroyed it himself.
It's all been done before people...
Ecclesiastes 1:9
"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun"
But whatever.
Keep calling God a liar and say this is all new.
It still won't change anything...
[video=youtube;k9tgLnI0fFc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9tgLnI0fFc[/video]
Ecclesiastes 1:9
"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun"
But whatever.
Keep calling God a liar and say this is all new.
It still won't change anything...
[video=youtube;k9tgLnI0fFc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9tgLnI0fFc[/video]
G
Why debate? Nothing needs to be corrected.
Just let the Word of God determine what the Word 'was' means...
Jeremiah 4:23
"I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light"
Whoa! What happened?
Why "was" the Earth without form and void?
Jeremiah 4:26
"I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger"
Ah, that's why!
Because God destroyed it himself.
Just let the Word of God determine what the Word 'was' means...
Jeremiah 4:23
"I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light"
Whoa! What happened?
Why "was" the Earth without form and void?
Jeremiah 4:26
"I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger"
Ah, that's why!
Because God destroyed it himself.
Those verses in Jeremiah 4 are not referring to the Genesis 1 condition-of-the-Earth at Creation...
The word was here is OK, as pointed out below, most confuse what Void means, it means an empty space, God gave the command to come forth, and the Earth was not yet in its proper place, thus it was void and without form, it was a Command to come forth. If a Star is created in space tomorrow when did God create it since he is "RESTING" Now ? He created it in the Beginning when He gave the command. Let there be light.
However I agree, people who do not use the Tech we have to understand the bible are wasting their time thinking the KJV is beyond approach. Look at this one verse, Daniel 9:27 and how bad it is translated from Hebrew to English and how the meaning is ruined by the Translation.
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.1.) Confirm = gabar 1396 (Greek Word) meaning to be strong, to prevail or to act insolently.2.) Oblation = minchah 4503 (Greek) A tribute or an offering 3.) Overspreading = kanaph 3671 (Greek) An edge, a Wing or Quarter (of a building) a pinnacle. 4.) Abominations = shiqquwts 8251 (Greek) Meaning, Disgusting, Filthy, Idolatrous or AN IDOL !! 5.) Desolate = shamem 8074 (Greek) Meaning to Stun, Grow Numb, to Stupefy, or to Devastate !!So looking at these original Hebrew word translations, what is this verse (Daniel 9:27) really telling us ? Does it match up with other end time events ? Lets delve into it !! Basically this is what I get from verse 27.Daniel 9:27 The Anti-Christ will FORCE an agreement (covenant means agreement) on Israel and others, probably the Muslims. He does so Insolently, his agenda Prevails, he forces this deal. Then after 3 1/2 years he stops allowing the Oblation or Tribute, (I think to Jesus, who Israel accepts as their Messiah before the Day of the Lord as it says in Malachi 4:5-6) by Israel unto their God, the False Prophet places an IDOL in a Wing or a pinnacle of the Temple and demands all people to worship this IDOL or else they must die. THIS STUNS/SHOCKS OR DEVASTATES Israel, then they heed Jesus' words, they Flee unto the Wilderness where they are protected by God for 1260 Days, because Elijah turned them back to the Messiah (Zechariah 12:10) before the Day of the Lord.Daniel 9:27 shorter version........The Anti-Christ will force a peace deal on Israel, in the middle of this deal he will renege on this deal, and order the False Prophet to place an Image of the Beast (IDOL) in the Temple, and demand all mankind to worship this Image. This Stuns and devastates Israel. Do further scriptures agree with this account ?Revelation And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Just reading the KJV you would have no clue what this verse really means, so I agree with your overall point. I could care less about the KJV or any version, my mission is to get to the original meaning.
However I agree, people who do not use the Tech we have to understand the bible are wasting their time thinking the KJV is beyond approach. Look at this one verse, Daniel 9:27 and how bad it is translated from Hebrew to English and how the meaning is ruined by the Translation.
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.1.) Confirm = gabar 1396 (Greek Word) meaning to be strong, to prevail or to act insolently.2.) Oblation = minchah 4503 (Greek) A tribute or an offering 3.) Overspreading = kanaph 3671 (Greek) An edge, a Wing or Quarter (of a building) a pinnacle. 4.) Abominations = shiqquwts 8251 (Greek) Meaning, Disgusting, Filthy, Idolatrous or AN IDOL !! 5.) Desolate = shamem 8074 (Greek) Meaning to Stun, Grow Numb, to Stupefy, or to Devastate !!So looking at these original Hebrew word translations, what is this verse (Daniel 9:27) really telling us ? Does it match up with other end time events ? Lets delve into it !! Basically this is what I get from verse 27.Daniel 9:27 The Anti-Christ will FORCE an agreement (covenant means agreement) on Israel and others, probably the Muslims. He does so Insolently, his agenda Prevails, he forces this deal. Then after 3 1/2 years he stops allowing the Oblation or Tribute, (I think to Jesus, who Israel accepts as their Messiah before the Day of the Lord as it says in Malachi 4:5-6) by Israel unto their God, the False Prophet places an IDOL in a Wing or a pinnacle of the Temple and demands all people to worship this IDOL or else they must die. THIS STUNS/SHOCKS OR DEVASTATES Israel, then they heed Jesus' words, they Flee unto the Wilderness where they are protected by God for 1260 Days, because Elijah turned them back to the Messiah (Zechariah 12:10) before the Day of the Lord.Daniel 9:27 shorter version........The Anti-Christ will force a peace deal on Israel, in the middle of this deal he will renege on this deal, and order the False Prophet to place an Image of the Beast (IDOL) in the Temple, and demand all mankind to worship this Image. This Stuns and devastates Israel. Do further scriptures agree with this account ?Revelation And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Just reading the KJV you would have no clue what this verse really means, so I agree with your overall point. I could care less about the KJV or any version, my mission is to get to the original meaning.
Heaven Defined
“Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them” (Gen. 2:1).
This word heavens refers to two different heavens.
The first heaven consists of the Earth’s atmosphere. The second heaven is
the vast reaches of space beyond the atmosphere.
There is also a third heaven: the home of God. The Apostle Paul saw this “third heaven,”
where God’s throne is, in a vision (ii Cor. 12:1-2). This vision was so intensely realistic
that Paul was unable to tell if he was physically there, or if he was seeing it in his mind.
In Hebrews 4:14, the phrase “into the heavens,” should be translated “through the heavens.”
We see that Jesus Christ passed through the first two heavens—Earth’s atmosphere and outer space
—as He ascended to the third heaven.
John 3:13 reveals that no man has ascended to heaven except for Jesus Christ.
Certainly many have ascended to the first and second heavens by aircraft, spacecraft
and other means, so this verse can only refer to the third heaven,
where the Almighty God resides.
Some have said that Elijah ascended to heaven, which he did—but not to the third
heaven. He was taken by chariots of fire up into the first heaven (ii Kings 2:11).
The Hebrew word used for heaven here is the same as in Genesis 2:1.
Elijah did not die during this experience. In fact, Elijah wrote a letter to King Jehoram
years after this event (ii Chron. 21:12). Elijah had been miraculously transported to
another location on Earth.
“Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them” (Gen. 2:1).
This word heavens refers to two different heavens.
The first heaven consists of the Earth’s atmosphere. The second heaven is
the vast reaches of space beyond the atmosphere.
There is also a third heaven: the home of God. The Apostle Paul saw this “third heaven,”
where God’s throne is, in a vision (ii Cor. 12:1-2). This vision was so intensely realistic
that Paul was unable to tell if he was physically there, or if he was seeing it in his mind.
In Hebrews 4:14, the phrase “into the heavens,” should be translated “through the heavens.”
We see that Jesus Christ passed through the first two heavens—Earth’s atmosphere and outer space
—as He ascended to the third heaven.
John 3:13 reveals that no man has ascended to heaven except for Jesus Christ.
Certainly many have ascended to the first and second heavens by aircraft, spacecraft
and other means, so this verse can only refer to the third heaven,
where the Almighty God resides.
Some have said that Elijah ascended to heaven, which he did—but not to the third
heaven. He was taken by chariots of fire up into the first heaven (ii Kings 2:11).
The Hebrew word used for heaven here is the same as in Genesis 2:1.
Elijah did not die during this experience. In fact, Elijah wrote a letter to King Jehoram
years after this event (ii Chron. 21:12). Elijah had been miraculously transported to
another location on Earth.
In modern times the Dead Sea Scrolls have shown the Masoretic Text to be nearly identical to some texts of the Tanakh dating from 200 BCE but different from others.[4] The 2000 years old En-Gedi Scroll, found in 1970 but which had not had its content reconstructed until recently, found that the Book of Leviticus text in the En-Gedi scroll is 100% identical to the Hebrew text of the Book of Leviticus in the Masoretic Text.[5] The En-Gedi scroll is the first time a biblical scroll has been discovered in an ancient synagogue's holy ark, where it would have been stored for prayers, and not in desert caves like the Dead Sea Scrolls
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoretic_text
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoretic_text
B
This one is a head scratcher... Was John not sure after the baptism or was the baptism after John release from prison though John got beheaded in prison, and I'm not into theories that John was trying to get his disciples to believe in Jesus because Jesus sends them back to John to answer Johns question...
John 1
32 Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.
33 I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, `The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.'
34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God."
Matthew 11
2 When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples
3 to ask him, "Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?"
4 Jesus replied, "Go back and report to John what you hear and see:
5 The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor.
6 Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me."
John 1
32 Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.
33 I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, `The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.'
34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God."
Matthew 11
2 When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples
3 to ask him, "Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?"
4 Jesus replied, "Go back and report to John what you hear and see:
5 The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor.
6 Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me."