Did Christ do enough to save us?

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

There was a man that had an infirmity for 38 years. Jesus healed him, and told him

Joh 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Do you think after hearing those words from Jesus, and being sick for 38 years, that he was going to start living in sin again? i am like that man. i do all things to please Jesus Christ. i do not knowingly or willingly commit any sin.

There is no sin that you do that you can't cease from, not a one. Therefore the question is, why are you not ceasing from them? Those who love to sin, will not cease to sin.
i love Jesus Christ so much, i have given him my life. literally, i am His slave, i do all things to please my Lord Jesus Christ. Every temptation that comes my way, He helps me to overcome them.

Now What? because you don't think it is possible, i must be lying? Jesus gave His life for me, therefore i have given my life for Him. i listen to the Bible 8 hours a day at work, pray going to and from work. i have no Cable, satalite, or the like. i do have netflix and like watching Jesus movies, Bible stuff, and occasionally Frasier. i abhor satan, he is the enemy of my Lord and Savior, i will NOT obey the Lord's enemy when he comes tempting me. All sin is selfishness, if i give my life to Him, it is no longer my life, but His to do with as He sees fit. Jesus Christ is on my mind every waking minute of the day. Christian Stickers all over my car, Jesus pictures on every wall in my house, Shirts that i wear, all testify of Jesus, except my work shirts, Music that i do listen to every so often is Christian or oldies, wear a ring that says Jesus, wear a cross necklace. i do all those things to help me keep my mind and thoughts on HIM all day long. i do not give satan time or place in my life. i have been called a Jesus Freak not a little. Which i confirm that i am. If i give place one little bit in my life. satan will devour me, and eat me up. Therefore i don't give him any foothold in my life. i do all things to please Jesus Christ. i am His, i belong to Him, i do not do anything that i think He would not like.

And hear is the kicker, which this generation is not going to like. If i can do it, SO CAN YOU. But how many are willing to Truly give up the life that they living now, to serve ONLY Jesus Christ? Again, there is NO sin that you do that you can't cease from, so why are you not ceasing from it, that is the question isn't it?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

How does that line up with this. Aren't you deceiving yourself, if not why aren't you?

1 John 1:8-10 KJV
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Have i said anywhere at all, that i have no sin? Have you read in any of my posts where i have said "i have never sinned" i have said on a couple of occasions that i have probably sinned more than everyone on these threads combined. If i never have sinned there would be no need for Jesus Christ.

Just because i say i no longer sin, does not mean i HAVE never sinned. For it is written For all HAVE sinned. HAVE is past tense. The verse does not say what this generation thinks. This generation thinks the verse says "For all WILL sin"
When Jesus told that man and woman to "Go and sin no more" When they did as Jesus told them, they could not say the Have no sin, even though they no longer continue to live in sins.
i no longer continue to live in sin, does that mean i am saying or thinking that i "HAVE NEVER SINNED"? God forbid. Just because i say i no longer live in sin, does not mean i think i HAVE never sinned. please correct your thinking on that.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

Yes, i suppose so. Just as Jesus was, and all the Apostles were too. For which of them did not teach to maintain good works? You must be one of those Faith Only believers.

Could you describe to me a Faith ONLY Based religion? And then tell me how you do not fit into that category?

Faith ONLY Based religions believe that believing in Jesus is enough, need DO nothing else.
Works ONLY Based religions believe that by doing Good deeds/works will get you into Heaven.
TRUE Christians believe the Word of God (ALL OF IT, not just the parts that talk about Faith) which teaches Faith + Works go hand in hand, NOT one without the other. Faith by itself = DEAD. Works by itself = DEAD. Those who believe that Faith is enough = DEAD. Those who believe Works is enough = DEAD. Woe to this generation indeed.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

I believe in Jesus only. It is He who has saved me.

Agreed. And now that He has Saved you, what does Scriptures tell you to do?

Getting Saved, and what a person MUST do once they are SAVED, are two entirely different things.

Jesus Saves us, and Once He does, we are to DO what He commands us to do, and He commands us to "Love One Another" He even said straight out, if you Love Me, you will do what i say. So now that you are SAVED by Him, what are you going to do now?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

Absolutely True. And AFTER you are SAVED, then there are things you MUST DO. That is why Jesus COMMANDED us to Love One Another. We don't Love One Another to get Saved, we Love One Another because we ARE SAVED. Woe to those who don't.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Either you're saved or your not. Love is the fruit not the root.

That is what i have been saying. Yet how many claim to be Saved and there is NO LOVE, NO Fruit, NO good works. That is my point exactly. If you are Truly Saved and Jesus Christ Truly lives inside of you, then you WILL have Love for One Another. But this generation claims to have Jesus, claims to be Christian, claims to be SAVED, and yet there is NO LOVE, NO Fruits, NO good works at all. This is my point exactly. Woe to those who claim Jesus in their Master and they do not have ANY LOVE for ONE ANOTHER.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[PeterJens]

Originally Posted by FreeNChrist

Either you're saved or your not. Love is the fruit not the root.


Our hearts are born in love, we love our parents, we are though without a connection
to our heavenly Father. This leads to hurt, pain and defence mechanisms which hurt
and cause damage to others through sin.

Christ is the word of love, given by love, God, that we might be saved and have love
in our hearts forever flowing.

To know Christ and not love, is impossible. To know insecurity and use faith as a
way of reassurance of this fear, is not faith in Christ, but faith in religious observance,
which changes nothing in the spiritual realities of the soul.

But to overcome the defence mechanisms of the heart, to admit surrender and let
Christ in, is the miracle of salvation, which demonstrates its reality by the spring
of life that wells up as a result. If you are still as defended as ever before, what
is it that has changed or been born again, but the superficial and the appearance
without the reality.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Agreed. And now that He has Saved you, what does Scriptures tell you to do?

"So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in Him" Colossians 2:6

 

[FreeNChrist]

That is what i have been saying. Yet how many claim to be Saved and there is NO LOVE, NO Fruit, NO good works. That is my point exactly. If you are Truly Saved and Jesus Christ Truly lives inside of you, then you WILL have Love for One Another. But this generation claims to have Jesus, claims to be Christian, claims to be SAVED, and yet there is NO LOVE, NO Fruits, NO good works at all. This is my point exactly. Woe to those who claim Jesus in their Master and they do not have ANY LOVE for ONE ANOTHER.

I don't know any who are saved who have no love, no fruit, or no good works. It seems you are hanging with the wrong crowd.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Originally Posted by FreeNChrist

Either you're saved or your not. Love is the fruit not the root.


Our hearts are born in love, we love our parents, we are though without a connection
to our heavenly Father. This leads to hurt, pain and defence mechanisms which hurt
and cause damage to others through sin.

Christ is the word of love, given by love, God, that we might be saved and have love
in our hearts forever flowing.

To know Christ and not love, is impossible. To know insecurity and use faith as a
way of reassurance of this fear, is not faith in Christ, but faith in religious observance,
which changes nothing in the spiritual realities of the soul.

But to overcome the defence mechanisms of the heart, to admit surrender and let
Christ in, is the miracle of salvation, which demonstrates its reality by the spring
of life that wells up as a result. If you are still as defended as ever before, what
is it that has changed or been born again, but the superficial and the appearance
without the reality.

"Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." Psalm 51:5

 

[Grace777x70]

The heart of man is desperately wicked - before they receive Christ. When we receive Christ we get a new heart and scripture is clear about that truth and now we are to live out of that heart - or another term is called "walking by the spirit".

Jesus said to clean the inside of the cup and then the outside will become clean.


Works-based humanistic mindsets get the gospel backwards and try to change their hearts from being bad to being good by the good things they do. This is a D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness religion that denies the work of Christ.

We are not a "new evolution" - those in Christ are a "new creation" - created in righteousness and holiness.

There is a working outwardly in our behavior to reflect what already is in our hearts as our minds are renewed to the truth of "being in union with Christ".

The good things that come out of our new heart in Christ are the fruit of that union with Christ. The good things do not create that union with Christ. That is getting the cart before the horse. Religion always gets the gospel and the things of Christ backwards.

 

[PeterJens]

"Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." Psalm 51:5

Without God in our hearts and communion, we will always fall into sin.
You could argue sin is actually only valid past the age of responsibility.

Paul argues the children of believers are Holy by being children of believers.
He extended this holiness to the unbelieving partner.

For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
1 Cor 7:14

So we have two aspects of Holiness, one based on forgiveness and one based
on family connection.

I understand the idea he is considering is children who die as unbelievers, then they
are doomed to destruction.

So here you guys are saying how lost we all are even in Christ and Paul is working
on exactly the opposite. Ironic.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Without God in our hearts and communion, we will always fall into sin.
You could argue sin is actually only valid past the age of responsibility.

Paul argues the children of believers are Holy by being children of believers.
He extended this holiness to the unbelieving partner.

For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
1 Cor 7:14

So we have two aspects of Holiness, one based on forgiveness and one based
on family connection.

I understand the idea he is considering is children who die as unbelievers, then they
are doomed to destruction.

So here you guys are saying how lost we all are even in Christ and Paul is working
on exactly the opposite. Ironic.

Now, just how in your thinking does any of that relate to the post you are supposedly responding to??

 

[PeterJens]

Jesus said to clean the inside of the cup and then the outside will become clean.

Works-based humanistic mindsets get the gospel backwards and try to change their hearts from being bad to being good by the good things they do. This is a D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness religion that denies the work of Christ.

I have noticed this language though true when aimed at some groups does not apply
to believers. This is why things get confusing, when most of the church is called
DIY self righteous.

And when people like myself are clearly not, we also get labelled. So though this seems
to make sense, once you get into the details, it all falls apart.

The goodness or evil or the hearts of man is not the primary problem, it is our lack of
communion with the source and creator of life, God. Without His love, everything falls
apart, though we build great palaces, and good behaviour, and nice relationships, they
rot and die, because God is not there and the focus is only on self justification and self
glory which ultimately leads to death.

 

[PeterJens]

I wonder if I am making it too difficult.

A Holy God, provides a redemption to bring us into love and perfection, but
when this looks too good to be true, and too costly a dumbed down failure
version is peddled that spreads like gangreen. Reminds me of Paul

Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
2 Tim 2:17

 

[garee]

I wonder if I am making it too difficult.

A Holy God, provides a redemption to bring us into love and perfection, but
when this looks too good to be true, and too costly a dumbed down failure
version is peddled that spreads like gangreen. Reminds me of Paul

Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
2 Tim 2:17

If it looks to good to be true it does not mean it is not.. Violate any commandment a person must pay for the whole(eternal damnation) wage of sin . If they fall once what we they have that could redeem them?

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Would they crucify Christ over and over each time they violate His word? Or perhaps invent purgatory or another works righteousness in a hope of a righteousness of themselves.?

Or do better accompany salvation like redemption of our souls?

It would seems like two groups those who offer dead works or those who were enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come as the better things that does accompanies salvation.

Their teaching will spread like gangrene

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.Heb 6:1-7

 

[FreeNChrist]

I wonder if I am making it too difficult.

A Holy God, provides a redemption to bring us into love and perfection, but
when this looks too good to be true, and too costly a dumbed down failure
version is peddled that spreads like gangreen. Reminds me of Paul

Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
2 Tim 2:17

Oh the irony of you quoting that passage, since it is vain "babblers" Paul was speaking to Timothy about. LOL.

 

[PeterJens]

Whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:
1 John 2:5

By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
1 John 4:17

The purpose of Christs death was so that we might be saved if we respond.
The response makes complete the work of salvation.

John is talking similarly about love being perfected in us.

Such a simple point, yet people are so wrapped up in the religious way of
expressing a truth, it is wrong to place an emphasis is a slightly different
way.

When you are marching do you go "Left right" or "right left"
It is exactly the same, neither is wrong.

If you want to know how religious you are, those who have a problem
with saying salvation is completed by mans response exactly summarise the
problem. The ethic they are following, the emphasis is 100% on God and
anything else is wrong, not the meaning of the words themselves.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

You are walking well, peter.

 

[PeterJens]

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection
Heb 6:1

Let us go on unto perfection. So what comes after elementary teachings of the Lord
is perfection.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is the sinless again.

Is the OP Perfect? No of course not..

 

[garee]

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection
Heb 6:1

Let us go on unto perfection. So what comes after elementary teachings of the Lord
is perfection.

The teaching of dead works that men offer towards God .

Better things accompany salvation.(Chapter 6) His work of faith towards us,working in us to both will and do His god pleasure(imputed faith) . He is the author and perfecter of the faith that he freely gives to us. We have His authority in us but are never to think it is of us.That would define blasphemy.

We are to have no gods before Him and that I believe means ourselves as gods created in His image(GOD)

2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[PeterJens]

There is the sinless again.

Is the OP Perfect? No of course not..

I am perfect in Christ.
If you walk with Christ, cleansed, washed and made whole you are perfect in Christ.

The mistake that is made is the idea we do not stumble.

James admits stumbling is not the problem, it is getting up again.

If you want to encourage someone in their walk, do you point out the
times of trouble or the times of success. Now if you discourage them
by attacking their weakness, bringing them down, and trying to destroy
their position, what are you?

So I encourage you to encourage those who want to walk like Jesus, and
if they succeed to any degree, welcome them as brothers and sisters in
Christ as part of the body. For it is these people we want, who will walk
in the Kingdom, and those who fail and embrace sin, who will be cast out
into the outer darkness.