Unconditional Election or Conditional Election
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So you interpret the world to mean every single individual whoever lived and will live. Ahhhh considering that John 3:16 is talking to Nicodemus a man who was a pharisee and abhored any idea that God loved Gentile people as well. Calvinists render the world to mean every people group and humanity. All Calvinists agree as if somehow we missed John 3:16?
Also, read James. It's clear that works and faith are different. Otherwise James would never call faith without works dead faith.... by default, faith would be a work... so the accusation from Calvinists saying that faith is a work is not biblical.
Its because faith without works are dead just as is the body of flesh and blood is dead without the spirit essence of life. No power to act or move.
There is no difference between His faith and His works. It why it called is called a work of faith, impossible to divide the faith of Christ from the works of our Faithful creator.. iI we give over the faith of Christ, the faith of God, to men in the end of the matter it is to blaspheme the Holy name by which we are called.
The beginning of James 2. it puts it as first things first.
Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of (generated by and though) our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Its conclusion show what happens when the work of Christ's faith is given over in respect to men which would include one self, as any man.
Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
We are to have no gods before Him ,which again would include our selves as gods.
Its because faith without works are dead just as is the body of flesh and blood is dead without the spirit essence of life. No power to act or move.
There is no difference between His faith and His works. It why it called is called a work of faith, impossible to divide the faith of Christ from the works of our Faithful creator.. iI we give over the faith of Christ, the faith of God, to men in the end of the matter it is to blaspheme the Holy name by which we are called.
The beginning of James 2. it puts it as first things first.
Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of (generated by and though) our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Its conclusion show what happens when the work of Christ's faith is given over in respect to men which would include one self, as any man.
Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
We are to have no gods before Him ,which again would include our selves as gods.
All of the bible contradicts what you have just said. Salvation is an instantaneous quickening of the Holy Spirit the moment a man receives Christ as Savior. Gods grace is available to all but efficacious only to those who receive by believing in Gods word everything God has written.
Grace is sufficient because the works of man can only frustrate Gods grace.
Ro 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Grace is sufficient because the works of man can only frustrate Gods grace.
Ro 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
Grace is just what it is, Unmerited favor. No man or woman has ever, can ever, or will ever do enough works to EARN their way to heaven. Not by law. Not by tradition, and not by the fruit of our labors.
Salvation has been the same since man fell. Faith in God..
As hebrews explains the blood of bulls and goats NEVER took away sin
I've tried to make sense of the above, but it is confusing, a run on, and makes contradictory conclusions. Could you rewrite this so it is more concise? You conclude that faith would be a work by default, then, say Calvinists are wrong in believing faith to be a work. 
Sorry for the confusion. I meant to put the first paragraph in parentheses as a quote, it was what I was replying to from another poster post 278.I was saying that if Calvinist calls faith a work they would be correct.
Unmerited favor? I thought God looked down through the corridors of time, saw who would choose Him, then, because of that, He granted them grace. Not that I believe that scenario, but it sure isn't 'grace unmerited' if that is ones belief.
Grace as a gift is unmerited favor but not from our behalf we cannot contribute anything to it. Grace is the earned result of His labor of love ,work of faith ,and not that of our own selves, unless any man boast in false pride like the worker of iniquity in Mathew 7 . He is a rewarder as the one who pays the wages of them that diligently seek Him as He draws us according to His work of faith .
Faith is a gift. To put your faith in someone or something you have to believe what they
are and that they are capable of delivering the thing you are having faith in.
Only God can reveal who Jesus was to the individual and that He can deliver it.
Also faith is a choice. You may understand something could be done, but the next
question is for you as an individual will it be delivered. Out of this choice things
and actions will flow.
In the real world words need to be translated into loyalty. Standing up for Jesus.
Working through love and righteousness and not giving in to sin and evil though
this may come at great cost.
One such spiritual authority issue is horoscopes. Yes they are rubbish, but
accepting them as authoritative is passing from the authority of Christ, to the
authority of the enemy, to dictate what your future is. It has serious life
consequences, and is a sin.
are and that they are capable of delivering the thing you are having faith in.
Only God can reveal who Jesus was to the individual and that He can deliver it.
Also faith is a choice. You may understand something could be done, but the next
question is for you as an individual will it be delivered. Out of this choice things
and actions will flow.
In the real world words need to be translated into loyalty. Standing up for Jesus.
Working through love and righteousness and not giving in to sin and evil though
this may come at great cost.
One such spiritual authority issue is horoscopes. Yes they are rubbish, but
accepting them as authoritative is passing from the authority of Christ, to the
authority of the enemy, to dictate what your future is. It has serious life
consequences, and is a sin.
The more I learn about life and Christ, the more the darkness in which we started only His light
showed the way, so by following the light it has got brighter, it is hard to see our part,
because like little children holding our parents hands we just know the trust we have,
though essential, He is all in all, and everything we are is His work to His glory.
showed the way, so by following the light it has got brighter, it is hard to see our part,
because like little children holding our parents hands we just know the trust we have,
though essential, He is all in all, and everything we are is His work to His glory.
John 6:44 [FONT="]No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
[/FONT]2 Corinthians 3:14 [FONT="]But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
[/FONT]Can't really make good decisions when your mind is blinded. And even if you wanted to make those good decisions you still couldn't do it unless you are drawn by God.
That's what the bible says.
[/FONT]2 Corinthians 3:14 [FONT="]But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
[/FONT]Can't really make good decisions when your mind is blinded. And even if you wanted to make those good decisions you still couldn't do it unless you are drawn by God.
That's what the bible says.
Agreed. But this can only happen by the transforming work of the Holy Spirit. Where the spirit of the Lord is there is freedom. So to suggest that sinners have freedom including free will is simply unbiblical and unfounded. You truly have a free will when the Spirit of God awakens you from death to life and a new nature is created in you.
S
Do you understand the difference between God the Father, God the son, and God the Holy Spirit?
What about Matthew 5:44 or Luke 6:28?
1 Timothy 2:1-8
First of all, then, I urge that requests, prayers, intercessions, and thanks be offered on behalf of all people, 2 even for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 Such prayer for all is good and welcomed before God our Savior, 4 since he wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one intermediary between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, revealing God’s purpose at his appointed time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle—I am telling the truth; I am not lying—and a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. 8 So I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or dispute.
What about Matthew 5:44 or Luke 6:28?
1 Timothy 2:1-8
First of all, then, I urge that requests, prayers, intercessions, and thanks be offered on behalf of all people, 2 even for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 Such prayer for all is good and welcomed before God our Savior, 4 since he wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one intermediary between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, revealing God’s purpose at his appointed time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle—I am telling the truth; I am not lying—and a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. 8 So I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or dispute.
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Oh i agree that he wants all people to be saved.
John 6:37 "all those the Father gives to me will come to me" In order for you to come to Christ you first must be given to him by God the Father.
Post 282 is the translation of 'world' in John 3:16. It does NOT mean every single individual ever lived or ever will live but rather gentiles, Jews, Greeks etc. General humanity. You do realize afterall that Jesus is talking to a Jew who probably had no concept of salvation outside the Jewish race itself right?
Do you understand that there was a strong heresy going on in the early church amongst Jewish Christians thinking that they were the only ones who have salvation and nobody else. Hence telling Gentiles to observe all the OT practices including circumcision, sabbath etc etc.
John 6:37 "all those the Father gives to me will come to me" In order for you to come to Christ you first must be given to him by God the Father.
Post 282 is the translation of 'world' in John 3:16. It does NOT mean every single individual ever lived or ever will live but rather gentiles, Jews, Greeks etc. General humanity. You do realize afterall that Jesus is talking to a Jew who probably had no concept of salvation outside the Jewish race itself right?
Do you understand that there was a strong heresy going on in the early church amongst Jewish Christians thinking that they were the only ones who have salvation and nobody else. Hence telling Gentiles to observe all the OT practices including circumcision, sabbath etc etc.
I think there are two uses of free will being given here.
1. People can choose behaviour, what they do in a day.
2. We cannot choose God, He has to give us revelation through the word, for us to find the way.
The first free will makes man guilty of sin.
The second means we can be saved.
Does everyone who hears the word, get given a chance to respond?
I think yes, but how their heart is depends on what they do.
Eternity is predicated on love. If you have totally sold out on love,
nothing you do is going to mean you like the Lord or desire to walk that
way.
So to my mind this is the question people answer. Is there a hope, that
you are willing to pursue, or are you happy with where you are, even though
you know you will perish and all is temporary?
In the secular world it is all about unbelief and doubt and total cynism, so even
love is just an illusion. How dare my time be wasted, why should you ask me
to do anything unless I agree, so what if they are my parents, I deserve better,
feelings who needs them, only facts are true, relationships are for wimps, dog
eat dog is our way, greed is good.
This is all so lost, so hurt and alone, so without hope and torn apart, so without
belonging and knowing others at a deep loving level. But this is what consumer
wealth and greed create.
1. People can choose behaviour, what they do in a day.
2. We cannot choose God, He has to give us revelation through the word, for us to find the way.
The first free will makes man guilty of sin.
The second means we can be saved.
Does everyone who hears the word, get given a chance to respond?
I think yes, but how their heart is depends on what they do.
Eternity is predicated on love. If you have totally sold out on love,
nothing you do is going to mean you like the Lord or desire to walk that
way.
So to my mind this is the question people answer. Is there a hope, that
you are willing to pursue, or are you happy with where you are, even though
you know you will perish and all is temporary?
In the secular world it is all about unbelief and doubt and total cynism, so even
love is just an illusion. How dare my time be wasted, why should you ask me
to do anything unless I agree, so what if they are my parents, I deserve better,
feelings who needs them, only facts are true, relationships are for wimps, dog
eat dog is our way, greed is good.
This is all so lost, so hurt and alone, so without hope and torn apart, so without
belonging and knowing others at a deep loving level. But this is what consumer
wealth and greed create.