Israel Is The Church, The Church Is Israel
- Thread starter Spurgeoncy
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What I am saying is, that its needed to define the word Israel, before we can discuss if it is Church or not etc.
Because many people have different idea what Israel is. And there are also many meanings of the word.
So for example I can agree with the thread "Israel is not the Church and the Church is not Israel" when I will say that "Israel" here means the physical land on the map
Because many people have different idea what Israel is. And there are also many meanings of the word.
So for example I can agree with the thread "Israel is not the Church and the Church is not Israel" when I will say that "Israel" here means the physical land on the map
lol. Yes, but you have to use biblical
definitions, otherwise it is cheating.
In God's eyes, I would say there is only 1 Israel.
Israel was intended as group of people, stemming from the 12 tribes, who worshipped him, and formed a 'people'. (I am trying not to say 'Church').
This was actually written into the Abrahamic Covenant, because if you did not get circumcised and follow God, you were automatically expelled from the people, regardless of your DNA.
Israel was intended as group of people, stemming from the 12 tribes, who worshipped him, and formed a 'people'. (I am trying not to say 'Church').
This was actually written into the Abrahamic Covenant, because if you did not get circumcised and follow God, you were automatically expelled from the people, regardless of your DNA.
What I am saying is, that its needed to define the word Israel, before we can discuss if it is Church or not etc.
Because many people have different idea what Israel is. And there are also many meanings of the word.
So for example I can agree with the thread "Israel is not the Church and the Church is not Israel" when I will say that "Israel" here means the physical land on the map
Because many people have different idea what Israel is. And there are also many meanings of the word.
So for example I can agree with the thread "Israel is not the Church and the Church is not Israel" when I will say that "Israel" here means the physical land on the map
Ephesians 2
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
And it is reiterated in verse 19; the household of God is Abraham's household, and the gentile (non-Israelite) believers have now been made Israelites. They have become fellowcitizens.
IT IS UNEQUIVOCAL, EXPLICIT, AND INDUBITABLE.
We can I agree, define 'Church' and 'Israel', to clear the mists of confusion, but Ephesians 2 does for us anyhow..
Against the scriptures there is no retort, other than vain and jangling accusations such as the ones made by Demi, and Kayla, (that we are "anti-semitic"), which is actually quite a sinful thing to do. I understand that Demi is immature, but Kayla has no excuse.
K
Spurgeoncy your name calling and superiority complex is quite appalling. You post from false news and conspiracy sites and expect the rest of us to believe the nonsense. Then you name call me as "infantile". Its quite ridiculous. Each person has a right to post their thoughts and opinions and you have not right to tell anyone to stop anything. Only a mod has that right and I have the feeling these threads are going to be closing soon.
A
I had hope for this thread at the beginning since it opened with scriptures.
However I see the Enemy has incited pride and watched the downward spiral into bickering.
I believe the Bible calls the church spiritual Israel and that the New Jeruselam(currently in Heaven) is the mother to all born again believers. The Earthly Jerusalem is Hagar and her children aren't Heirs to the promise of eternal life.
However, railing against the nation of Israel is extreme and the whole biblical message gets lost.
Makes me wonder about the Enemies tactics of spiritual abuse and the use of word triggers to keep people from seeing the full Biblical truth. Hmm....
However I see the Enemy has incited pride and watched the downward spiral into bickering.
I believe the Bible calls the church spiritual Israel and that the New Jeruselam(currently in Heaven) is the mother to all born again believers. The Earthly Jerusalem is Hagar and her children aren't Heirs to the promise of eternal life.
However, railing against the nation of Israel is extreme and the whole biblical message gets lost.
Makes me wonder about the Enemies tactics of spiritual abuse and the use of word triggers to keep people from seeing the full Biblical truth. Hmm....
Name calling? You are the one who goes around calling anyone who deviates from your dogmas an anti-semite - an absolutely appalling slur by the way, and one you are not prepared to, (or are not able to), even qualify. You are a disgrace to the Church in my opinion. A loose cannon full of bile stupidity and powder
False news sites being - name them please?
Conspiracy sites being - name them please?
False news sites being - name them please?
Conspiracy sites being - name them please?
K
As to the term anti-semite I have spoken to a mod about this and they will tell me whether the term is allowed or not in this forum. To be 100% clear here is Merriam/Websters definition,
hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group
Quote "You are a disgrace to the Church in my opinion."
Im so very glad your opinion does not matter,only God's.And I will always stand with and for His chosen people.
Quote "A loose cannon full of bile stupidity and powder"
No one has done more name calling than you in these forums. You rail against me for standing for my beliefs and then call anyone who disagrees with you a fool and stupid. Your tactics are childish and bullying. You have been here since the first of Dec. and haven't stopped stirring up strife everywhere you go. I have said your beliefs are anti-semetic,I have not called you a fool,stupid,infantile or any other name. And its not only me that you have derided. Your attitude is a long,long way from Christlike. And at 62,if you're honest about your age,you ought to know better.
ps. False news and conspiracy,was it not you who talked about the Bolsheviks? We'll start with that.
Mirriam Webster is also false doctrine by the way, as the Jews are defined by their religious belief system, Judaism.
Therefore it is tautology to say "Jews as a religious group". Jews are, de facto, a religious group. I am ethnically Jewish but I am not a Jew - go figure.
If Christians cannot say that Judaism has no place in the Church, then either we must shut up and tow the line, or stand up for Christ.
Therefore it is tautology to say "Jews as a religious group". Jews are, de facto, a religious group. I am ethnically Jewish but I am not a Jew - go figure.
If Christians cannot say that Judaism has no place in the Church, then either we must shut up and tow the line, or stand up for Christ.
K
Well we're about to have a moment,as much as you hate me. I understand illness and I totally stand with those who suffer. I was in ministry 20yrs and suffered chronic pain from a neck injury that also causes boughts of violent dizzy spells making it difficult to stand on many occasions and therefore I would have a chair brought to the stage during the service. People would often come to me and say "you couldn't do what you do without God" I'd simply agree with a smile. They had no idea the pain I was suffering at any given moment. It is something that most people close to me don't even know about,I keep it very private. Im sharing it with you for you to understand that I am not the vile person you seem to pin me as. And that there are things we might agree on.But if you don't wish to,that is your choice. But whatever your illness is Im sorry that you suffer and God can use someone who is ill as much as someone who is whole. He just uses us differently.