Israel is NOT the Church and the Church is NOT Israel.
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The Tree is the Family of God, the Branches were Israel, they were CUT OFF, and the Gentiles via Christ were Grafted in. I did an Exegesis on this somewhere a while back explaining why the Gentile Church and Israel are Different Entities...
THIS QUESTION WAS ASKED ME..............Can a person be a child of God just because they are a direct descendant of Abraham, but have rejected Christ?
EXEGESIS ON THE CHURCH AND ISRAEL
No, but you can be a child of Abraham and . There is Spiritual Abraham and Physical Abraham, both can be spoken of in various ways. So when Paul speaks of BLIND ISRAEL.........Is he speaking of Abraham's descendants or not ? HELLO.....You just said they aren't Israel, but Paul says they are Israel, they are JUST BLIND.
Paul is trying to point something out by using a demonstration, and its not being picked up on by you guys. He is pointing out ISRAEL HAS BEEN BLINDED for an appointed time. Then he speaks about Israels true seed being of the BELIEVERS LIKENED UNTO ABRAHAM..............Well, OK, we understand this. But where does it say that Israel are not descendants of Abraham, the chosen people of God ? Oh, I get it, you think because Paul said not all Israel is Israel that they are not Gods chosen people....... BUT....... you missed something right in front of your eyes.
Romans 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: (You see, they are still ISRAEL IN THE FLESH....This seems to not be understood.) 4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises...
We have always understood that NOT ALL JEWS GO TO HEAVEN. Why do you not understand that this is a forgone conclusion ? Many of Israels Kings were wicked and are in hell or will be in hell shortly, SO....No Kidding, not all who are born unto the SEED of Abraham are GODS PEOPLE, but those who live by FAITH and OBEY God are His true SEED. That has always been understood, BUT...........Israel is still the chosen people of God, and He will call them to repentance before the Day of the Lord, thus ALL ISRAEL will be Saved. This is EASILY PROVED. Follow along here for a brief time:
As a matter of fact, there is an inference here in Romans 9 that seems to be missed by you guys. Paul is speaking of Issac, he says the ELDER shall serve the YOUNGER. Do you not get that in this very chapter that Paul is telling Israel that God is taking the mantle away from the ELDER (Israel) and making him sever the YOUNGER (CHURCH).
Paul talks to the Romans, trying to tell them not to get the big head, thinking that they are special in comparison with he Jewish peoples, for it is Gods will being done, not that the GENTILES ARE SPECIAL. Then he points out what Hosea says in verse 25.....
Romans 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her (Gentile Church) beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved.
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
{{ DO YOU SEE YOUR ERROR ? Paul is calling the UNBELIEVING nation of Israel.........ISRAEL in verse 31 !! It seems you are confused as to what Paul is speaking about here, he is speaking about the ELDER (Israel) serving the YOUNGER (Church) because God elected them to serve Him, just like he elected Issac instead of Esau !!
Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. (AGAIN, Paul calls them ISRAEL.)
Then the next 10 or so verses speaks about Faith in Christ, then Paul says this in verse 12:
Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
NO WHERE is Paul saying that the Jews and the Gentiles/Greeks are the same, only that they ALL COME TO GOD/CHRIST VIA FAITH in like manner, Paul still called Israel ISRAEL in verse one in this very Chapter. In the previous chapter Paul is pointing out that the ELDER will serve the YOUNGER. Israel's mantel is given to the Gentiles.
The next few verses, Paul speaks about how hearing the word creates faith, and we have to have preachers sent to preach to hear, and that whosoever shall call upon the name of Jesus will be saved etc. etc. THEN Paul says this:
Romans 9:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto themthat asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
This is Paul, saying the MANTLE has been passed from Israel, to the Gentiles, the ELDER is serving the YOUNGER because God chose it that way, because He saw unbelief in the ELDER, and the YOUNGER BELIEVED God. Thus God will use them to PROVOKE ISRAEL....There it is again, Paul is differentiating the TWO right here. He is saying that God will use the Gentiles to provoke ISRAEL TO JEALOUSY !! There is a Gentile Church and an Israel Nation.
Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. { Not talking about the CHURCH HERE !! }
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot (know) ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. {God isn't speaking about the CHURCH HERE}
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. { Paul is speaking about TWO ENTITIES, the Gentile Church and ISRAEL !! }
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? (ISRAEL'S)
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? { Paul is still speaking about ISRAEL in a SINGULAR MANNER vs the Gentile World or Gentile Church. Israel as a Nation, not Israel as the Church and the JEWS !!! You have to read man, and quit listening to MEN WHO DECEIVE WITH LYING TONGUES, it is right here in scriptures, dig it out. }
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. {THEY = Israel}
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? {Paul is speaking of TWO ENTITIES again, the Church and Israel, the Olive Tree is their own Olive tree, the Gentiles are the Wild Olive tree that has been GRAFTED IN.}
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
{Paul is saying here, hey Gentile/Roman Church, do not get the BIG HEAD thinking you are better than my Brother Jews, blindness IN PART has come upon them, only until the fullness of the GENTILES IS COME IN, or until the time of the YOUNGER (Gentile Church) is finished. There are some Messianic Jews and will always be, thus Israel is blinded IN PART, but there will come a time, when the Gentile Church's mission is finished, Then God WILL LIFT Israels blindness, [there will be 144,000 Jewish Preachers of God, and Elijah will turn Israel BACK TO GOD, Before the Day of the LORD !!! Amen.] and ALL ISRAEL will be Saved. Meaning Israel as a Country comes back to God, and God blesses them and protects them, because they accept Jesus as THEIR MESSIAH !! }
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: .....Jacob !!! NOT CHURCH.
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. { Notice the TWO ENTITIES AGAIN ? Its a trend man..............If you just take notice, its there. They are/ISRAEL/JACOB and YOUR SAKE/The Gentile Church of Rome, its a plain as day man.}
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy throughtheir unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Via the Gentile Churches MERCY, God will thus ultimately have Mercy upon Israel. They will remember the Church's sayings, and they will remember that Jesus was THE CHURCHES GOD, and that they said all of these things will come to pass, and when Paul's writings start coming to pass, and Revelation comes to pass, and when the Church is Raptured via 100's of millions of CHRISTIAN'S DYING AT ONCE, Israel/Jews will understand, and when Elijah comes back preaching this SAME GOSPEL, Israel will understand fully the error of their ways, it will HIT THEM LIKE A BRICK........BOOM, Jesus is our Messiah, the scales will be lifted off, and ALL ISRAEL (As a Nation) will be Saved. Or turn to God.
This whole nonsense of taking a Verse here and there out of context is CRA CRA............We see Paul speaking throughout Romans 9-11 about the Gentile Church and Israel as SEPARATE ENTITIES Continually, yet some try to force THE CHURCH IS ISRAEL false doctrine on the world. It is a documented FALSEHOOD, and anyone that studies it just a little bit will understand that, I call it Christians being lazy.
The Church is not ISRAEL..........And Paul never says this, he is ONLY SHOWING how all men must come to God via FAITH ALONE, after all, it is by Faith in Christ Jesus that we are SAVED, not by Works, lest any man should boast.
AMEN.
THIS QUESTION WAS ASKED ME..............Can a person be a child of God just because they are a direct descendant of Abraham, but have rejected Christ?
EXEGESIS ON THE CHURCH AND ISRAEL
No, but you can be a child of Abraham and . There is Spiritual Abraham and Physical Abraham, both can be spoken of in various ways. So when Paul speaks of BLIND ISRAEL.........Is he speaking of Abraham's descendants or not ? HELLO.....You just said they aren't Israel, but Paul says they are Israel, they are JUST BLIND.
Paul is trying to point something out by using a demonstration, and its not being picked up on by you guys. He is pointing out ISRAEL HAS BEEN BLINDED for an appointed time. Then he speaks about Israels true seed being of the BELIEVERS LIKENED UNTO ABRAHAM..............Well, OK, we understand this. But where does it say that Israel are not descendants of Abraham, the chosen people of God ? Oh, I get it, you think because Paul said not all Israel is Israel that they are not Gods chosen people....... BUT....... you missed something right in front of your eyes.
Romans 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: (You see, they are still ISRAEL IN THE FLESH....This seems to not be understood.) 4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises...
We have always understood that NOT ALL JEWS GO TO HEAVEN. Why do you not understand that this is a forgone conclusion ? Many of Israels Kings were wicked and are in hell or will be in hell shortly, SO....No Kidding, not all who are born unto the SEED of Abraham are GODS PEOPLE, but those who live by FAITH and OBEY God are His true SEED. That has always been understood, BUT...........Israel is still the chosen people of God, and He will call them to repentance before the Day of the Lord, thus ALL ISRAEL will be Saved. This is EASILY PROVED. Follow along here for a brief time:
As a matter of fact, there is an inference here in Romans 9 that seems to be missed by you guys. Paul is speaking of Issac, he says the ELDER shall serve the YOUNGER. Do you not get that in this very chapter that Paul is telling Israel that God is taking the mantle away from the ELDER (Israel) and making him sever the YOUNGER (CHURCH).
Paul talks to the Romans, trying to tell them not to get the big head, thinking that they are special in comparison with he Jewish peoples, for it is Gods will being done, not that the GENTILES ARE SPECIAL. Then he points out what Hosea says in verse 25.....
Romans 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her (Gentile Church) beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved.
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
{{ DO YOU SEE YOUR ERROR ? Paul is calling the UNBELIEVING nation of Israel.........ISRAEL in verse 31 !! It seems you are confused as to what Paul is speaking about here, he is speaking about the ELDER (Israel) serving the YOUNGER (Church) because God elected them to serve Him, just like he elected Issac instead of Esau !!
Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. (AGAIN, Paul calls them ISRAEL.)
Then the next 10 or so verses speaks about Faith in Christ, then Paul says this in verse 12:
Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
NO WHERE is Paul saying that the Jews and the Gentiles/Greeks are the same, only that they ALL COME TO GOD/CHRIST VIA FAITH in like manner, Paul still called Israel ISRAEL in verse one in this very Chapter. In the previous chapter Paul is pointing out that the ELDER will serve the YOUNGER. Israel's mantel is given to the Gentiles.
The next few verses, Paul speaks about how hearing the word creates faith, and we have to have preachers sent to preach to hear, and that whosoever shall call upon the name of Jesus will be saved etc. etc. THEN Paul says this:
Romans 9:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto themthat asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
This is Paul, saying the MANTLE has been passed from Israel, to the Gentiles, the ELDER is serving the YOUNGER because God chose it that way, because He saw unbelief in the ELDER, and the YOUNGER BELIEVED God. Thus God will use them to PROVOKE ISRAEL....There it is again, Paul is differentiating the TWO right here. He is saying that God will use the Gentiles to provoke ISRAEL TO JEALOUSY !! There is a Gentile Church and an Israel Nation.
Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. { Not talking about the CHURCH HERE !! }
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot (know) ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. {God isn't speaking about the CHURCH HERE}
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. { Paul is speaking about TWO ENTITIES, the Gentile Church and ISRAEL !! }
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? (ISRAEL'S)
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? { Paul is still speaking about ISRAEL in a SINGULAR MANNER vs the Gentile World or Gentile Church. Israel as a Nation, not Israel as the Church and the JEWS !!! You have to read man, and quit listening to MEN WHO DECEIVE WITH LYING TONGUES, it is right here in scriptures, dig it out. }
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. {THEY = Israel}
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? {Paul is speaking of TWO ENTITIES again, the Church and Israel, the Olive Tree is their own Olive tree, the Gentiles are the Wild Olive tree that has been GRAFTED IN.}
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
{Paul is saying here, hey Gentile/Roman Church, do not get the BIG HEAD thinking you are better than my Brother Jews, blindness IN PART has come upon them, only until the fullness of the GENTILES IS COME IN, or until the time of the YOUNGER (Gentile Church) is finished. There are some Messianic Jews and will always be, thus Israel is blinded IN PART, but there will come a time, when the Gentile Church's mission is finished, Then God WILL LIFT Israels blindness, [there will be 144,000 Jewish Preachers of God, and Elijah will turn Israel BACK TO GOD, Before the Day of the LORD !!! Amen.] and ALL ISRAEL will be Saved. Meaning Israel as a Country comes back to God, and God blesses them and protects them, because they accept Jesus as THEIR MESSIAH !! }
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: .....Jacob !!! NOT CHURCH.
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. { Notice the TWO ENTITIES AGAIN ? Its a trend man..............If you just take notice, its there. They are/ISRAEL/JACOB and YOUR SAKE/The Gentile Church of Rome, its a plain as day man.}
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy throughtheir unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Via the Gentile Churches MERCY, God will thus ultimately have Mercy upon Israel. They will remember the Church's sayings, and they will remember that Jesus was THE CHURCHES GOD, and that they said all of these things will come to pass, and when Paul's writings start coming to pass, and Revelation comes to pass, and when the Church is Raptured via 100's of millions of CHRISTIAN'S DYING AT ONCE, Israel/Jews will understand, and when Elijah comes back preaching this SAME GOSPEL, Israel will understand fully the error of their ways, it will HIT THEM LIKE A BRICK........BOOM, Jesus is our Messiah, the scales will be lifted off, and ALL ISRAEL (As a Nation) will be Saved. Or turn to God.
This whole nonsense of taking a Verse here and there out of context is CRA CRA............We see Paul speaking throughout Romans 9-11 about the Gentile Church and Israel as SEPARATE ENTITIES Continually, yet some try to force THE CHURCH IS ISRAEL false doctrine on the world. It is a documented FALSEHOOD, and anyone that studies it just a little bit will understand that, I call it Christians being lazy.
The Church is not ISRAEL..........And Paul never says this, he is ONLY SHOWING how all men must come to God via FAITH ALONE, after all, it is by Faith in Christ Jesus that we are SAVED, not by Works, lest any man should boast.
AMEN.
Failure to correctly identify the two Olive Trees will result in fallacious conclusions old boy.
Who are the Two Olive Trees?
The tended Olive Tree is the House Of Israel as represented in The House Of Judah, the wild Olive Tree is the House Of Israel as represented in the House OF Ephraim.
Isaiah 17 6 Yet gleaning grapes shall be left in it, as the shaking of an olive tree, two or three berries in the top of the uppermost bough, four or five in the outmost fruitful branches thereof, saith the Lord God of Israel.
Morning tanakh,
The Jews who came to Christ, including Paul, Peter, John and all of those Jews of Israel at Pentecost and afterwards, all became apart of the church. When the resurrection takes place, those in Christ, whether Jew or Gentile, will be caught up and gathered as part of the church. Unbelieving Israel, those who do not recognize Jesus as their Messiah are those whom God is going to deal with in that last seven years in fulfillment of the seventy sevens.
The Jews who came to Christ, including Paul, Peter, John and all of those Jews of Israel at Pentecost and afterwards, all became apart of the church. When the resurrection takes place, those in Christ, whether Jew or Gentile, will be caught up and gathered as part of the church. Unbelieving Israel, those who do not recognize Jesus as their Messiah are those whom God is going to deal with in that last seven years in fulfillment of the seventy sevens.
Old Testament persons included in the Israelite nation, the Hebrews, were the original Israel that God used as a picture for his salvation plan, showing that they were his special group. However, with the coming of Christ and the New Testament, it was made clear that those who are saved from the Gentiles may be called Israel as well and are included in the exact same promises. There is no and will be no special treatment of a separate Hebrew political nation after that outside of the church, meaning the true believers as a whole.
Any Jew who received or receives Christ as their Messiah belongs to the Church. Neither Scofield nor Darby has anything to do with it. God is going to deal with nation Israel proper who, during these last day, have not recognized Jesus as their Messiah. When that ruler, the antichrist comes, he will establish a seven year agreement with Israel, which will initiate that seven years. Then according to Dan.9:27, In the middle of that seven years, the ruler/antichrist will put a stop to the sacrifices and offerings and will set up the abomination will be set up in the holy place within the temple. This in turn is what will cause the desolation of Jerusalem, which is when the woman of Rev.12:6,14 flees out into the wilderness to that place prepared for her by God for 1260 days, which is that last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period and will remain there until Christ returns to the earth at the end of that 3 1/2 years.
Eph 2:12
that ye were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus ye that once were far off are made nigh in the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14
For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,
Eph 2:15
having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16
and might reconcile them both in one body unto God through the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17
and he came and preached peace to you that were far off, and peace to them that were nigh:
Eph 2:18
for through him we both have our access in one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19
So then ye are no more strangers and sojourners, but ye are fellow–citizens with the saints, and of the household of God,
Eph 2:20
being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21
in whom each several building, fitly framed together, groweth into a holy temple in the Lord;
Eph 2:22
in whom ye also are builded together for a habitation of God in the Spirit.
This clearly teaches that the church has become part of Israel
that ye were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus ye that once were far off are made nigh in the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14
For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,
Eph 2:15
having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16
and might reconcile them both in one body unto God through the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17
and he came and preached peace to you that were far off, and peace to them that were nigh:
Eph 2:18
for through him we both have our access in one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19
So then ye are no more strangers and sojourners, but ye are fellow–citizens with the saints, and of the household of God,
Eph 2:20
being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21
in whom each several building, fitly framed together, groweth into a holy temple in the Lord;
Eph 2:22
in whom ye also are builded together for a habitation of God in the Spirit.
This clearly teaches that the church has become part of Israel
A none believing Israel is like having an Atheist Church. It could very well be counterfeit. I believe that the strong delusion could be the belief that Antichrist is the Messiah. Revelation says that the whole world will worship the Beast and his image. What better way than to set up a false state and then claim to be God, performing miracles and sitting in a temple. Otherwise why would God break his covenant with regard to the land and obedience to him?. A Jewish remnant will be saved at the return of Christ but those occupying and ruling the land now are not in Gods will.
fFor the Jews and Gentiles who are Christians are considered part of the Church who are to be the Bride-to-be of Jesus Christ. Since you are Jewish,,,apply the Jewish wedding routine. Right now we the church are betroved to Jesus and await his return. Why...as in a Jewish wedding, He has gone to prepare a place for us and will return when that is done. He even assures us He will return. For 2000 years, he has been making a place for his Bride. He even gives us signs that will tell us of his 'Imminent Return'.
I assume you are trying to trip up someone so I will only say, the Dead (including Paul's disciples/students/followers) that are 'in Christ' (the church believers), will rise first, then those that are alive will go next. All others, will remain on earth to go through what ever they think 'Will Not '. come their way.
It appears my friend that you have doubts about the Word of God and Jesus' Christ Gospel especially where it pertains to the Jewish people, Israel and the Church. If this is the case, by God's own Words, you will be one of those left behind.
Now, I am not saying you will go to Hell,,,,NO just 'LEFT-BEHIND'. When you see the strange unexplainable disappearance of millions of people around the world, are you still still going to deny God's Word or will you place yourself on his side and offer yourself up to become one of the multitude of Martyrs that will become Saints as well.
The best bet is to believe in Jesus as your Messiah Nagid, follow His WORD as it is written instead of waiting to see what is really going to happen. He has already told you exactly what is going to happen.....It is really up to you to believe it.
The Choice is Yours to make and Only Yours! As someone once said "Choose well my friend....Choose well"[/COLOR]
I assume you are trying to trip up someone so I will only say, the Dead (including Paul's disciples/students/followers) that are 'in Christ' (the church believers), will rise first, then those that are alive will go next. All others, will remain on earth to go through what ever they think 'Will Not '. come their way.
It appears my friend that you have doubts about the Word of God and Jesus' Christ Gospel especially where it pertains to the Jewish people, Israel and the Church. If this is the case, by God's own Words, you will be one of those left behind.
Now, I am not saying you will go to Hell,,,,NO just 'LEFT-BEHIND'. When you see the strange unexplainable disappearance of millions of people around the world, are you still still going to deny God's Word or will you place yourself on his side and offer yourself up to become one of the multitude of Martyrs that will become Saints as well.
The best bet is to believe in Jesus as your Messiah Nagid, follow His WORD as it is written instead of waiting to see what is really going to happen. He has already told you exactly what is going to happen.....It is really up to you to believe it.
The Choice is Yours to make and Only Yours! As someone once said "Choose well my friend....Choose well"[/COLOR]
They do fit in. They usually refer to themselves as Messianic Jews or Completed Jews. I like the phrase completed Jews a lot 
As well as the term, Messianic because it shows that they have trusted in their Messiah Jesus Christ the Righteous.
Well there are three groups or three categories of people. And here they are:
1) Jews
2) Gentiles (Greeks)
3) Born again Christians (The Church of God)
Paul gives this division and distinction.
So Jews, are a group to themselves. Gentiles are a group unto themselves. And Christians (saved Jews AND Saved Gentiles) are a group unto themselves.
Now concerning your next question. There is only one Body of Christ. And as I mentioned afore, it consists of both saved Jews and saved Gentiles (Both are Christians).
As well as the term, Messianic because it shows that they have trusted in their Messiah Jesus Christ the Righteous. Well there are three groups or three categories of people. And here they are:
1) Jews
2) Gentiles (Greeks)
3) Born again Christians (The Church of God)
Paul gives this division and distinction.
So Jews, are a group to themselves. Gentiles are a group unto themselves. And Christians (saved Jews AND Saved Gentiles) are a group unto themselves.
Now concerning your next question. There is only one Body of Christ. And as I mentioned afore, it consists of both saved Jews and saved Gentiles (Both are Christians).