When is it right to fight back ? Never or something else
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God uses people to do many things and we got to remember our God is the same God as the Old testament. Jesus is King and a warrior. He will return as a warrior leading a army of angels ready to do battle with the world of evil. God uses his people to do many things. And we are not exempt from the battle that rages every day. A battle that wants to consume your soul and drag you to the pits of hell. All of us who believe should be thankful. And realize Jesus protects us from many things but in reality we are becoming like Christ. A spiritual warrior that in order to fight our battles and win we must put on the armor of God and the Sword of the Spirit and shield of Faith. Everyday we must wake up and suit up ready to protect our souls and shine the light of God into the dark places of Earth.
We are to be the light projecting the glory of God through us as a byproduct of his righteousness doing good work with us.
And sometimes we we believers are lead by our great commander in chief to join the military or the national defense agencies in our country to protect innocent life from evil. And any believer is called to do what right and protect life. We act to protect the unborn we must also act to protect a old man being robbed. It's the right thing to do.
I can sit all day on a couch and pray I get a job. Not saying God can't find me a job. But God works in us with our cooperation to follow him. He until I get up and search for a job then God can work great things through you.
We are to be the light projecting the glory of God through us as a byproduct of his righteousness doing good work with us.
And sometimes we we believers are lead by our great commander in chief to join the military or the national defense agencies in our country to protect innocent life from evil. And any believer is called to do what right and protect life. We act to protect the unborn we must also act to protect a old man being robbed. It's the right thing to do.
I can sit all day on a couch and pray I get a job. Not saying God can't find me a job. But God works in us with our cooperation to follow him. He until I get up and search for a job then God can work great things through you.
L
[h=2]Christians are called to be the light of the world, not the sword of the LORD.
[/h]Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” (Rom 12:19) https://textsincontext.wordpress.com/2012/05/31/romans-13-in-context-sword-pacifism/
[/h]Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” (Rom 12:19) https://textsincontext.wordpress.com/2012/05/31/romans-13-in-context-sword-pacifism/
We carry the sword of the Spirit to protect ourselves from spiritual evil.
Ephesians 6:10-18New International Version (NIV)
The Armor of God
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.
This is how we fight a spiritual war. And I do not know if your trying to say we shouldn't defend our selves physically but that's where I am going to leave this I believe it is absolutely okay to only defend your self or other innocent lives near you and that is all other than military and police.
I'm sorry if someone has already made this point (I haven't been able to go through all the posts), but what about teaching your children self-defense?
My parents always taught me as a child that if someone was initiating or doing something wrong to me, I should fight back and get away if at all possible.
When people teach that we are not to fight back and "let the Lord handle it", does that mean you teach your children to allow themselves to be abused, kidnapped, etc?
If your child is walking home from school and someone tries to throw them into a car, are you then going to teach your child to passively allow them to be kidnapped? My parents are lifelong conservative Christians, and they taught us to SCREAM, HIT, BITE, HOLLER... and do everything within our power to thwart the assailant and get away if at all possible.
For those who do not allow for self-defense or fighting back, what do you teach your children to do?
And, if by chance you DO teach your children to fight back but then believe they are to turn completely passive, at what age are they to cease all self-defense?
If your daughter is in a situation that is turning into a potential date rape, what do you teach her to do? Passively allow herself to be victimized?
And again--at what age do you teach her to stop defending herself or fighting back? When she's 18? 25? 65?
I'm 43, and I already know what my father would tell me to do (and it certainly wouldn't be to allow myself to be abused.)
My parents always taught me as a child that if someone was initiating or doing something wrong to me, I should fight back and get away if at all possible.
When people teach that we are not to fight back and "let the Lord handle it", does that mean you teach your children to allow themselves to be abused, kidnapped, etc?
If your child is walking home from school and someone tries to throw them into a car, are you then going to teach your child to passively allow them to be kidnapped? My parents are lifelong conservative Christians, and they taught us to SCREAM, HIT, BITE, HOLLER... and do everything within our power to thwart the assailant and get away if at all possible.
For those who do not allow for self-defense or fighting back, what do you teach your children to do?
And, if by chance you DO teach your children to fight back but then believe they are to turn completely passive, at what age are they to cease all self-defense?
If your daughter is in a situation that is turning into a potential date rape, what do you teach her to do? Passively allow herself to be victimized?
And again--at what age do you teach her to stop defending herself or fighting back? When she's 18? 25? 65?
I'm 43, and I already know what my father would tell me to do (and it certainly wouldn't be to allow myself to be abused.)
You do not know what the Lord will lead you to do until it happens. As it is, the bad guys have to be stupid to ignore you if you can actually do anything to stop that, and so a situation ethic like that may be unrealistic because you would be incapacitated before they do that in front of you.
Now if you come home to that, then anyone just sitting at that computer desk or wherever they are in reading this message, would say that they would fight back. How? Well, being an armchair quarterback would be easy but you really don't know what you would do when presented with a shocking and traumatic and provocative situation as that.
You think you would know... like.. no rules apply; two against one or whatever more... you cannot fight normally so you have to strike to blind or break the Adam's apple or maim to subdue multiple attackers, because you can't fight fair.
Oh sure.. a lot of people would say grab a gun and blow them away, but that is only an ideal situation, but hardly realistic since who comes home all the time with a gun in a holster or an M-16 or a bazooka?
And if it was a break in; what gun would not deter them away while another family member calls the police?
Your situation is a nightmare that would suggest that when done in front of you, then you are helpless to prevent it.
And when you are helpless to prevent it, what can a believer do, but pray?
So let us not boast about tomorrow when we are trusting the Lord for today. Stop imagining things that will provoke you to kill but rather imagine how the Lord would lead you away from temptations in according to His word to not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able by providing the escape.
James 4:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:[SUP]14 [/SUP]Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.[SUP]15 [/SUP]For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.[SUP]16 [/SUP]But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Since Jesus did not come into the world to condemn the world, then we should trust Jesus to help us follow Him the christian way by trusting Him to take care of us rather than the American way, imagining the worst possible scenario that would tempt us to kill.
Psalm 91:1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.[SUP]3 [/SUP]Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.[SUP]4 [/SUP]He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.[SUP]5 [/SUP]Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;[SUP]6 [/SUP]Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.[SUP]7 [/SUP]A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Because thou hast made the Lord, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;[SUP]10 [/SUP]There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.[SUP]11 [/SUP]For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.[SUP]12 [/SUP]They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.[SUP]15 [/SUP]He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.[SUP]16 [/SUP]With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.
I do not look to myself in having that hope in the Lord. I look to the Lord for that hope in Him as all I can do is trust Him for all things in walking me through this valley of death to fear no evil for He is with me... as the just shall live by faith.
Now if you come home to that, then anyone just sitting at that computer desk or wherever they are in reading this message, would say that they would fight back. How? Well, being an armchair quarterback would be easy but you really don't know what you would do when presented with a shocking and traumatic and provocative situation as that.
You think you would know... like.. no rules apply; two against one or whatever more... you cannot fight normally so you have to strike to blind or break the Adam's apple or maim to subdue multiple attackers, because you can't fight fair.
Oh sure.. a lot of people would say grab a gun and blow them away, but that is only an ideal situation, but hardly realistic since who comes home all the time with a gun in a holster or an M-16 or a bazooka?
And if it was a break in; what gun would not deter them away while another family member calls the police?
Your situation is a nightmare that would suggest that when done in front of you, then you are helpless to prevent it.
And when you are helpless to prevent it, what can a believer do, but pray?
So let us not boast about tomorrow when we are trusting the Lord for today. Stop imagining things that will provoke you to kill but rather imagine how the Lord would lead you away from temptations in according to His word to not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able by providing the escape.
James 4:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:[SUP]14 [/SUP]Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.[SUP]15 [/SUP]For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.[SUP]16 [/SUP]But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Since Jesus did not come into the world to condemn the world, then we should trust Jesus to help us follow Him the christian way by trusting Him to take care of us rather than the American way, imagining the worst possible scenario that would tempt us to kill.
Psalm 91:1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.[SUP]3 [/SUP]Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.[SUP]4 [/SUP]He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.[SUP]5 [/SUP]Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;[SUP]6 [/SUP]Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.[SUP]7 [/SUP]A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Because thou hast made the Lord, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;[SUP]10 [/SUP]There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.[SUP]11 [/SUP]For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.[SUP]12 [/SUP]They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.[SUP]15 [/SUP]He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.[SUP]16 [/SUP]With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.
I do not look to myself in having that hope in the Lord. I look to the Lord for that hope in Him as all I can do is trust Him for all things in walking me through this valley of death to fear no evil for He is with me... as the just shall live by faith.
L
You represent a large company of folks who ALWAYS bring this up on any such discussion. First, If you took the time to actually read the article on Romans that was linked, then you would know that your question is outside of the context of what was under discussion.
Christians march off dally in war bearing the sword. but I do not know one Christian to whom your scenario has ever applied. That is not to say that it could not happen. But this shows the unwillingness of Christians to discuss the actual subject at hand. They would rather hide behind this smoke screen.
Christians march off dally in war bearing the sword. but I do not know one Christian to whom your scenario has ever applied. That is not to say that it could not happen. But this shows the unwillingness of Christians to discuss the actual subject at hand. They would rather hide behind this smoke screen.
The Savior of all mankind who will hear Him and believe Him forgave all sin from the agony of the cross. He understands even the rapist (sin), the murderer (sin), and all forms of sin firsthand. He said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."
Think..........we were one time children of darkness until we came to the Light of Jesus christ. He is our Example, and though I believe no man will ever be able to achieve His perfection while yet in the flesh, we are to do our best to follow Him, His example. In picking up our cross daily I cannot envision killing for any reason, although I know my own weaknesses and so does God. This too must be forgiven and finished as God's work in me, in you, and in all.
I have found in decades of reading the Word no teachig to kill since our Salvation came to us.
Think..........we were one time children of darkness until we came to the Light of Jesus christ. He is our Example, and though I believe no man will ever be able to achieve His perfection while yet in the flesh, we are to do our best to follow Him, His example. In picking up our cross daily I cannot envision killing for any reason, although I know my own weaknesses and so does God. This too must be forgiven and finished as God's work in me, in you, and in all.
I have found in decades of reading the Word no teachig to kill since our Salvation came to us.
Answer the question Clark.....what would you do....see....your own theology throws you in a pickle....
If you say....WELL I would defend my family lethally if need be you will contradict your pacifist view
If you say You would do nothing then your not much of a man
I tell you what I would do....I would use any and all means available to save my child or family member even lethally if need be........
If you say....WELL I would defend my family lethally if need be you will contradict your pacifist view
If you say You would do nothing then your not much of a man
I tell you what I would do....I would use any and all means available to save my child or family member even lethally if need be........
I do not believe that a Christian should fight under any circumstance,and they could not touch Jesus until the time came,and nothing can happen unless God allows it.
But with that being said,if my family were attacked,I am going to take action,and then say Lord forgive me,for there is no way I could sit idly by and be happy with myself,and if I lose we will go down together.
It is like this man on the internet showed a video that was on the news,where 20 women,and 10 kids,went to the river,and 6 children ended up in the river,which I do not know how,but none of the 30 people could swim,and none of the 20 adults even made an effort to try to save them,but all 6 children drowned.
The man that put out the video said he could not swim,but he said if his daughter fell in the river,that they would of found him and his daughter in the river,and he said it is time to learn to swim,which I do not understand what is so hard about swimming,and my sister was swimming when she was three years old,and riding horses,of course not as an expert,but she did alright for her age.
I do not believe that we should fight back no matter the circumstance,but it would be hard to restrain myself and not fight back,but for me alone I might not fight back,but for my family I would fight,which is a very good tactic used by the mafia,if they are against you,and you do not care,they will come after your family,but I would have to fight back,and say,Lord forgive me.
But I really should not think that way,for if we think of a sin that we want to do it,it is the same as if we did it,so I will say I will not fight back,but chances are I will.I am in a pickle.
But with that being said,if my family were attacked,I am going to take action,and then say Lord forgive me,for there is no way I could sit idly by and be happy with myself,and if I lose we will go down together.
It is like this man on the internet showed a video that was on the news,where 20 women,and 10 kids,went to the river,and 6 children ended up in the river,which I do not know how,but none of the 30 people could swim,and none of the 20 adults even made an effort to try to save them,but all 6 children drowned.
The man that put out the video said he could not swim,but he said if his daughter fell in the river,that they would of found him and his daughter in the river,and he said it is time to learn to swim,which I do not understand what is so hard about swimming,and my sister was swimming when she was three years old,and riding horses,of course not as an expert,but she did alright for her age.
I do not believe that we should fight back no matter the circumstance,but it would be hard to restrain myself and not fight back,but for me alone I might not fight back,but for my family I would fight,which is a very good tactic used by the mafia,if they are against you,and you do not care,they will come after your family,but I would have to fight back,and say,Lord forgive me.
But I really should not think that way,for if we think of a sin that we want to do it,it is the same as if we did it,so I will say I will not fight back,but chances are I will.I am in a pickle.
[h=1]1 Chronicles 22:6-8Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT="]6 Then he summoned his son Solomon and instructed him to build a house for the Lord God of Israel. 7 “My son,” David said to Solomon, “It was in my heart to build a house for the name of Yahweh my God, 8 but the word of the Lord came to me: ‘You have shed much blood and waged great wars. You are not to build a house for My name because you have shed so much blood on the ground before Me.
Obviously being a soldier, protector of the peace or acting in defense has some penalty in the eyes of God when it comes to all things Holy. But none the less if this still didn't stop A man after Gods own heart to become the great King that he was.
[/FONT]
Obviously being a soldier, protector of the peace or acting in defense has some penalty in the eyes of God when it comes to all things Holy. But none the less if this still didn't stop A man after Gods own heart to become the great King that he was.
[/FONT]