Not By Works

RuggeroA · Apr 2, 2017

"but this man did nothing wrong.”[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]42 Then he said: “Jesus, remember me when you get into your Kingdom.”+[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]43 And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”+"

[FONT=&quot]You are wrong .. again
It is true that this criminal did very bad things. But so have billions of other people who have lived on earth. Most of them, however, did bad things because they were never taught about God and what he wanted them to do.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]So people like that, including the criminal Jesus spoke to on the stake, will be resurrected to life in Paradise.
This man never got to know about Jesus and so he couldn't prove his works , but he was genuinely repentant and that is why Jesus forgave him.

There are millions of people around the Earth that never got to know about Jesus before they died , they will get a second chance. JUST LIKE THIS THIEF

Be logical[/FONT]
[/FONT]

dcontroversal · Apr 2, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

Try again Jimmy......the actual definition of the Greek word translated disciple.....if you would be open to learning and instruction you might learn something bro

JIMBO43 · Apr 2, 2017

beware of the moonshine baptists

[video=youtube;Rgs76L80lM0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgs76L80lM0[/video]

FreeNChrist · Apr 2, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

The truth is that your works do not save you. Get that, and most of your confusion and bewilderment will go away.

dcontroversal · Apr 2, 2017

RuggeroA said:

DUDE...go bark up another tree....your logic falls way short....EVERY MAN is born with a corrupt fallen nature and JESUS knew what was in man...this view has got the be one of the most ignorant things I have ever seen written on this site......geesh

FreeNChrist · Apr 2, 2017

RuggeroA said:

"but this man did nothing wrong.”42 Then he said: “Jesus, remember me when you get into your Kingdom.”+43 And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”+"

You are wrong .. again
It is true that this criminal did very bad things. But so have billions of other people who have lived on earth. Most of them, however, did bad things because they were never taught about God and what he wanted them to do.

So people like that, including the criminal Jesus spoke to on the stake, will be resurrected to life in Paradise.
This man never got to know about Jesus and so he couldn't prove his works , but he was genuinely repentant and that is why Jesus forgave him.

There are millions of people around the Earth that never got to know about Jesus before they died , they will get a second chance. JUST LIKE THIS THIEF

Be logical

Can you support your "logic" with scripture?? Where does the Bible say we get a second chance?? The thief's "chance" was his first, not his second.

dcontroversal · Apr 2, 2017

FreeNChrist said:

I know.....I was like....well if that is the case then Jesus did not need to die for all men......and the bible is wrong to say ALL have sinned and are continually falling short of the grace of God......IMAGINE saying he will not be judged because he is ignorant of the word.....even ROMANS teaches that what the GENTILES DO becomes a law unto themselves and in so doing convicts and condemns.....geesh

JIMBO43 · Apr 2, 2017

so question how do you make someone a deciple.....

Utah · Apr 2, 2017

FreeNChrist said:

Such s great post it needed repeating!

DiscipleDave · Apr 2, 2017

valiant said:

So let me understand, i am suppose to believe YOU, and not what Scriptures teach? Do you know the meaning of a conjunction word?

Mar_16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Two separate things here, divided by the conjunction word "AND" Maybe if i put number in the verse it will help to grasp the Truth of the verse.

Mar_16:16 He that 1) believeth and 2) is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

So believe you which teach one is more important than the other, or believe Jesus who plainly told us that BOTH are needed to be SAVED?

valiant said:

Do you take me for a fool? i know full well that Rev 21:8 says and teaches that all LIARS will burn in the lake of Fire and Brimstone. If it comes from me and my own thinking and thoughts, my own mind, and i say it is what God told me. How does that not make me a LIAR? If i say God told me, but it came from my own understanding, my own thoughts, i am indeed a LIAR. and commit sin against God.

There are over 120 verses which teach to "Fear the Lord" or "Fear God" What do you think God would do to me, if i was saying God told me, and it did not come from God? Would that not kindle His wrath against me?

Scriptures in the Old Testament plainly teach that if a person claims something is from God and it is NOT from God, not only would that person DIE, but that person's family would DIE also. So when i say God told me this or that. i assure you that He did.

What? Do you not think i know how ridiculous it sounds to say "God told me ________"? i know that this generation would look at me like i have lost my mind, and listening to demons. i know i will be laughed at, and mocked, and stoned if that were possible today, i am belittled, made fun of, say things to make me cry and worse above all those things mentioned, what i teach will be disregarded because i say it is from God. So then why do i do it, why do i say that, when i know all these things will come upon me, Because it is the TRUTH. It is not my fault, this generation does not believe God is the same today as He was in the past. Not my fault that people today think God does not speak to people anymore. If what i say is contrary to Scriptures, then i am false, a liar, and heading straight for the pits of Hell.
But here is the TRUTH. What i teach, which i say comes from God Himself, does NOT contradict any Scripture, it does however contradict what people of the last days generation believe is the TRUTH. That is why i am attacked, belittled, put down, and the such. NOT because what i teach is contrary to Scriptures, but contrary to what people think is the TRUTH.

valiant said:

Are you saying what Jesus instructs us to DO to be Saved is not essential?

Mar_16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

You say that it is the believing that is essential. What then, What Jesus says about being baptized is UNESSENTIAL? Is that what you are suggesting. Jesus plainly tells us to be SAVED we are to 1) believe and 2) be baptised. But you say the second part of Jesus Christ statement is NOT essential? really?

If Jesus says i want you to get me bread and water. You think He what is essential is ONLY getting the bread. But what did He ask for? Bread AND water. Apparently Jesus thinks BOTH are essential because that is what Jesus the Savior asked for.

By saying one is MORE essential than than the other is to change the verse altogether. Jesus seemed to thing that believing and getting baptized for Salvation was pretty important, because guess why? He mentions it for one to be Saved.

You see the Faith ONLY believers Can't understand this verse, if they did, they would have to change their entire belief. and we can't have that, it is easier to change the verse to fit into their belief, such as saying it is the believing part that is essential. Saying it is the Bread that is essential and not the water.

If Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior says "He that believeth and is baptized shall be Saved" i assure you with no doubts whatsoever that what He plainly says here is the TRUTH. Woe to those who believe Faith ONLY to be be Saved.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

dcontroversal · Apr 2, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

I will tell you the following, but you will reject it.....but in the hopes you will get it......

The text does not say “make disciples” (verb/noun) like “build a house” or “grill a steak.” It does not say to verb a noun. It says simply… “DISCIPLE!” which is like saying “RUN!” or “JUMP!” In reality, you can’t “make” a disciple. You can only disciple. So, in the great commission in Matthew, disciple is not an outcome (like a product that you end up with), but it is rather a process that you are doing.

GO and disciple ALL nations is exactly what it says........you disciple ALL nations by leading them to Christ BIBLICALLY and then TEACH them the word which they can now understand because of a SPIRITUAL BIRTH.....

JIMBO43 · Apr 2, 2017

PERSONALLY DC I THINK I SHOULD GET MY DICTIONARY OUT ON YOU AND DEFINE A FEW WORDS OF MY OWN....LOL

JIMBO43 · Apr 2, 2017

dcontroversal said:

I will tell you the following, but you will reject it.....but in the hopes you will get it......

The text does not say “make disciples” (verb/noun) like “build a house” or “grill a steak.” It does not say to verb a noun. It says simply… “DISCIPLE!” which is like saying “RUN!” or “JUMP!” In reality, you can’t “make” a disciple. You can only disciple. So, in the great commission in Matthew, disciple is not an outcome (like a product that you end up with), but it is rather a process that you are doing.

GO and disciple ALL nations is exactly what it says........you disciple ALL nations by leading them to Christ BIBLICALLY and then TEACH them the word which they can now understand because of a SPIRITUAL BIRTH.....

JESUS SAID TO HIS BELIEVERS GO AND MAKE DECILPES OF ALL NATIONS...DC...............dont ya want to know how to do that ?

DiscipleDave · Apr 2, 2017

dcontroversal said:

That verse is absolutely True, and all the other verses which teach the same thing. But no verse negates another verse.

For example the verse that teaches whosoever believes in the Son has Everlasting life, does not negate this verse:

Gal_6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

So according to this Holy Inspired Word of God Verse, Those who sow to the Spirit shall reap everlasting life, but those who sow to the flesh shall reap corruption. So then just because a person believes Jesus is the Son, (Faith) does not negate other verses in the Holy Scriptures. Demons believe Jesus is the Son of God and they are NOT SAVED.

So you can't believe one verse and make void other verses. ALL verses are TRUE.

1) Verse says Believing in Jesus your Saved.
2) Verse says Confessing your Saved.
3) Verse says Repenting your Saved.
4) Verse says Those who sow to the Spirit have Eternal Life.
5) Verse says those who obey Jesus get the Holy Ghost
6) Verse says believe and be baptized to be Saved.
7) Verse says to be Doers of the Word not hearers only.

What. Are you going to pick and choose the verse you will believe all they while ignoring all the other verses? You believe 1) but not the others? And you think you know the TRUTH? 1-7 are all TRUE. When you get that figured out, then it will because the Holy Ghost has revealed it to you.

Sure you can say 1) and say it is just that simple. Simple because you do not believe all the other verses concerning being SAVED. You think, that believing 1) is enough. Do you know who else believes 1) is all that is needed. The Faith ONLY people, which have no works.

i can show you Scripture after Scriptures which plainly teach Believing ONLY is NOT enough to be SAVED. It is enough to GET SAVED, but not enough to BE SAVED. Just because your name is written in the Book of Life when you GET SAVED, does not mean it will not be blotted out before Judgment Day. my name is written in the Book of Life because i am SAVED. And if tomorrow, i am raped by a gang, and get AIDS, and they beat me so badly that i no longer have sight, i may very well curse God and deny His name. What Saved today, but not tomorrow? If i am Saved right now, i am Always going to be SAVED no matter if i turn away from God or not? Really? People can't you see the flaws in your logic concerning this?

i love you all, i really do. If i didn't, i would say nothing.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

JIMBO43 · Apr 2, 2017

so in a nut shell to say we are the done deal takes away about 99.9 percent of the bible..

DiscipleDave · Apr 2, 2017

dcontroversal said:

It seems to me, it would be easy to confront a self proclaimed prophet. That God would reveal this pretty easily.

Tell me this. Would it be difficult for self proclaimed Christians to argue with a TRUE prophet? yes or no?

A self proclaimed prophet, would speak of himself, what he believes, what his thoughts are, his own opinions.
A True Prophet, would merely repeat what God has told him/her.

And i know i have already said it to you before in your ears, that not only my name, but every name will be mentioned. Because our words do not come back void.

Guess what, you have tried to teach people on these boards for a long time, people who would not listen to you. You would tell them TRUTHS that they would not hear nor believe. And Guess what dcontroversal, your chat name will be brought up to that person as well on Judgement Day. Jesus will say "dcontroversal on Christianchat.com on 02/17/2013 at 5pm told you the Truth, and you rejected it. Not only did dcontroversal tell you that TRUTH, but all these _______________, _______________, _______________, _______________, _______________, _______________, _______________, _______________,Told you that Truth also, and you refused them all. What? am i evil because i KNOW this will happen? Am i evil because i now say YOUR NAME will also be mentioned? Really?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

RuggeroA · Apr 2, 2017

FreeNChrist said:

[FONT=&quot]Acts 24:15[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection+ of both the righteous and the unrighteous.+

Well lets think about something , MILLIONS of people around the world over the ages have never heard about Jesus and so therefore could not of believed in him.WILL THOSE PEOPLE THEN DIE and never be resurrected? No obviously not , God is love !! SO then that is why it can be said that even thieves and people will false beliefs can still be saved ."resurrection+ of both the righteous and the unrighteous"

It is clear that works are vital

Jas. 2:14, 26,: “What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.” (A person does not earn salvation by his works. But anyone who has genuine faith will have works to go with it—works of obedience to the commands of God and Christ, works that demonstrate his faith and love. Without such works, his faith is dead.)

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RuggeroA · Apr 2, 2017

dcontroversal said:

It is clear my friend ..

Jas. 2:14, 26,: “What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.” (A person does not earn salvation by his works. But anyone who has genuine faith will have works to go with it—works of obedience to the commands of God and Christ, works that demonstrate his faith and love. Without such works, his faith is dead.)

JIMBO43 · Apr 2, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

ahh no biggy mate... its just a silly mentality that a lot here have,,, but then i do wonder is its more than that,,, when we see the truth being deniad over and over...

Love your enemies the biblle says... and i guess if we carnt do that on an internet chat site... then theres something wrong...

Now i can still love ya and pray for ya,,, but i dont have to keep on responding to people who twist his words of truth..

Its one thing to not undestand but its a nother to be ignorant of the truth...

For the lord said it was there lack of knowledge that was there down fall... meaning they dont ask and just assume...

I call the demi Gods... people trying to be God or play God...

Grace777x70 · Apr 2, 2017

It is very interesting that in James's examples of faith "being made alive" by a work or a corresponding action. Both Rahab and Abraham each did a one time corresponding action to demonstrate their faith.

Abraham believed God and offered up Isaac on the alter. Rahab received the spies. Both one time events in their life - God calls this faith in action.

James 2:20-25 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

[SUP]21 [/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

[SUP]22[/SUP]You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

[SUP]23 [/SUP] and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

Paul and James completely go together and do not cancel each other out nor do they contradict the true gospel of faith in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection.

We do the very same thing when we hear the message of Christ and we believe and then God seals us with the Holy Spirit. This is our faith with a corresponding action or a "work".

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Jesus said to do the work of God was to believe in the Son.

Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10[/SUP]for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

This is faith with corresponding action - or a work. This is how we are saved by grace through faith just like Paul said.

Not By Works

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