Mental illness, demons and the BIBLE

[sevenseas]

No, she's not. Actually Lauren is back but her username is still Lauren. (Can't remember it, but got a like from her a couple of weeks ago.)

And what SevenSeas sounds like is a multitude of us who have been trying to reach Joaniemarie often over the years. Better than accepting that her gospel is God's gospel.

well, I did kind of go for the word of faith thing at one time before I knew better, as I explained above

as they say 'I've seen things' LOL! yeah, not good things

I don't know why trying to show that it is not biblical seems to be such a hot matter here

I never had my questions answered which does not surprise me at all, because in order to be word of faith, which Prince really appears to be, you have to be in denial

 

[Depleted]

I was not trying to condemn anyone. It's just my opinion that sometimes I lost trust in some doctors because there are good and bad doctors who could make your sickness worse or cure one sickness but resulted to another problem which is worse than your previous sickness. Yes I have been very sick and was cured by taking meds for a long time and the side effects are real. I also know people who did not undergo chemo but lived for 20 years and no recurrence. In some cases chemo just extend life, delays the inevitable but does not cure. I also know someone who was advised to undergo dialysis but she did not and she is still alive today. I remember depleted said one time she was cured of her gall stones but it resulted to her back problem. I know someone who had an eye operation for cataracts. Instead of being well, she became blind because of medical mal practice. Who knows those people who are mentally ill became worse because of meds when they could actually just had a simple depression? I know someone who took meds for her depression but she stopped because she felt she is getting worse. She got better in time without the meds. There are things that doctors don't tell us. It's a conspiracy between them and pharmaceutical companies. I know we live or die for the Lord and our life is in His hands. We could be healed by synthetic meds and it is not purely evil but I know that satan's influence has proliferated in the medical world.

Just clearing this up. (I get it. Who can remember exactly what someone else said ages ago? lol)

I was cured of a urinary tract infection and a bee sting when I'm allergic to bees.

The gallstones? Meh. Most people have them. Not a problem, unless they decide to leave the gallbladder. (HURTS! Made-me-pass-out kind of hurt before I understood that was "HURT.") I decided to get the gallbladder removed (something I regret) because the gallstones passed every time my period was coming. My back nerve was pinched when they removed me from the operating table right after that surgery, but it was the right nerve to pinch for it to feel like the same pain as an inflamed gallbladder, so everyone thought I was nuts for hurting right there... until it was far after I could sue, (which I wouldn't have sued for as much as they feared), and then they told me, very nonchalant -- 15 years later -- it's a pinched back nerve.

15 years of that pain taught me not to use my back much, and, because of lack of use (and getting older), my whole back is a problem now, along with the original digestive problems that pinched nerve caused.

So, was cured of two things. Wasn't cured of gallstones or bad back.

(Just clearing the record.)

 

[Depleted]

My opinion is not the rule. Some doctors saved my life too. But I still don't trust some of them. I am not into WOF like what you seem to think. As much as possible I will try to use natural healing methods to prevent disease but I will also listen to doctors I trust when natural means don't work. Autoimmune diseases are tricky. I had to take meds for my thyroid problems because I was getting worse and because the advantage outweighed the risks. But there are also people I know who got well with thyroid problems without meds, only natural methods. In some people who have asthma, their symptoms just went away on their own. I had allergic rhinitis for a long time but miraculously there are very rare attacks now. I just avoid allergens. Maybe my immune system just got tired of the attacks that it got rid of it once and for all. I did not take anti allergies, I just let it be. Our immune system is amazing. The focus should be to strengthen it by natural means and not to automatically turn to meds with any slight problems.

Something someone taught me last year that truly freed me of thinking doctors were supposed to be right all the time.

90% of all doctors were NOT the top 10% of their class. Even doctors that averaged a D- could still be doctors.

BUT 10% of all doctors were also in the top 10% of their class, so some of them are brilliant.

 

[Depleted]

The problem with synthetic supplements is that they can damage your kidneys in the long run. Balanced diet from natural sources is still the best. Drink a lot of water, enough sleep, fresh air, good posture, sunshine, exercise and fasting. They are the best doctors. Maybe juicing can help with the problem with nutrient absorption? I used to take supplements before but I stopped. I have a kidney stone problem now because my sugar level became borderline and maybe because of the too many synthetic meds and supplements I ingested.. I have a feeling the supplements contributed to the hormonal imbalance that possibly caused many of my illnesses. I read somewhere that supplements can cause imbalance. God has healed me and continues to heal me of all my illnesses. I know that life will not stop getting hard but I trust God will get me through all the hardship.

Everything you consume will damage the liver or the kidneys in the long run. How much quality of life do you want in the shorter run?

I'm taking a medication that will "destroy your liver in the long run." Okey dokey, because without it I was suicidal, so it wasn't going to be much of a short-run without it.

Hubby was on blood thinners to give him less than a 1% chance of having a stroke too. The problem became the blood thinners thinned his blood enough that it oozed out of his veins. He had to get about 50 units of blood while he was on blood thinners, and he rarely had enough energy to get up, once more relearn to walk.

He chose to get off them and increase his chance for a stroke in any given year by 5-7%. (As in he is more likely to have a stroke than most people at any time.) He chose quality over quantity. He also went from barely able to get up to walk, all the way to we went for a mile walk in the park yesterday!!! (It's been 10 months since he stopped the blood thinners.)

Up to you which way you want to face this. I'm all for lasting as long as I can, but really not into that without any quality of life that goes with it. After all, one thing is guaranteed for those who are God's chosen -- the long-run is eternal, and the short-run is life on earth.

 

[Depleted]

Lynn, fyi he is a night owl.

Yup. I'm noticing we're on opposite ends of the clock on here. lol

 

[NayborBear]

Rather then arguing with "chokmaleihsoe", er howerver its spelt?......PITY THE FOOL! Yet under no circumstances, try to go in there, and shine a light. It'll just frustrate y'all, and cause a vexation of spirit!

Probably, just some hard-cored atheist who hacked into one of those Bible study programs, in its attempt to dissuade and confuse believers!

Although, I do think "chokky" probes in some interesting angles concerning illness, whether mental, er physical, without, confessing Jesus Christ is come in flesh? "chokky" is speaking spuriously along the lines of the spirit of anti-christ, at best, or with a ruler, or rulers of darkness, and their paganistic gods, at worst.

I know, in the Bible somewheres, in the O.T., God Himself states, that (paraphrasing, as I am a guy who doesn't have one of those Bible study programs), that "the evil that men do, does follow unto a 3rd er 4th generation (or further), to those that hate Me!" It was true then, just as it's true now!

Having said this, I just cannot PICTURE the Jesus I know and love and having confessed Him before men/women, kneeling on all fours, like some muslim on a prayer rug, pushing some brightly colored hard boiled egg around with His nose! NOR, can I picture Him, teaching little children of mom's and dad's, to do this! Can you?

Oh yes! spiritual warfare is very real!

 

[Depleted]

for a fact, Christians can and do have demons

I don't think I would refer TO them as possessed though

more like they are afflicted or bothered. I've seen people completely change, their eyes, their voice, and just kind of zone out and it's like something takes their place

people like to say the Holy Spirit cannot be where demons are or vice versa. If that is so, then how do you ever get rid of the demons?

demons are liars. people forget that the devil quoted scripture to Jesus in the wilderness, so they assume anything they think is good must be God

so they throw down all caution and accept. then the fun begins

I've heard people say Christians can't be possessed. If a demon infiltrates you into the core of your being, and you are a Christian, how is that not possessed? What is it if it's not that? (Real question of the I-don't-get-it persuasion.)

 

[Depleted]

No, Lauren is a member here. This is the only forum I am active in right now.

Lauren hasn't been posting for a while now.

Actually, Lauren left a month or two ago, and then returned. She was someone else before that. (Can't remember that username either), so she is kind of like me -- knows it's time to go, but not very good at staying gone. lol

 

[stonesoffire]

I don't call myself word of faith. But, I do believe that faith has substance in the spiritual realm. And Jesus said His Word is spirit and life. The difference between what I believe and wof is that for me...Spirit and Word must be present for healing to manifest.

There is also recovery...this is healing too.

I have syringomyelia, a very painful spine disease and it is rare. There's really no cure and no meds beyond managing the pain and nerve damage it causes. It is affecting my heart and now have a pacemaker.

My experience in this is the recovery type healing so far. I'm not like I was...even from last week to now. Getting stronger daily, sometimes a setback, but always when ahead...though it may be a small step forward, it is still forward.

The faith of the mustard seed plant is that the roots go down so deep of this bush or tree, whatever...that it is impossible to stamp out.

So healing can be a battle for some...or immediate for others. And just like the scriptures of Hebrews...some die in faith.

I've known people who have died believing, not believing, and have known others who did receive the promises.

So I side with Joanie. And JP...except for one thing. Our healing was finished 2000 yrs ago on the Cross through Jesus, is true. But, for us as I said already...its stages of manifesting.

Or not.. Isn't it odd that we argue over how much good our Father wants to give us?

This is something He spoke to me...whether anyone believes, it matters not to me.

When you speak my Word, in the power of my Spirit, a portal opens in heaven, and I manifest.

I choose to believe Him.

 

[stonesoffire]

I've heard people say Christians can't be possessed. If a demon infiltrates you into the core of your being, and you are a Christian, how is that not possessed? What is it if it's not that? (Real question of the I-don't-get-it persuasion.)

We are bought (possessed) by the blood of Jesus, sealed in our Spirit Lynn. Our souls and bodies are another thing though.

I believe what we think has a lot to do with whether we are tormented in our minds or not. And unforgiveness is a big thing to stay away from. Leads to a bitter man or woman...no joy of salvation, no living water flow.

We can also be tormented by past happenings to us. Jesus still delivers.

I just read what I wrote about thoughts and our mind. lol What I mean is that a spirit or demon can attach itself to us because of our thinking. Is a reason why the Word is so important to know. And to perceive in truth.

 

[PennEd]

When it comes to Grace (call it hyper if you want) I am all in IF that definition includes the revelation (which I received) that satan can no longer club you over the head about your sin, with guilt, fear or condemnation. This simple, yet incredible realization, resulted in me actually committing LESS and LESS sin, whereas feeling shame, guilt, anger and other bad feelings led to MORE sin! Totally counter-intuitive to human thought.

BUT I am NOT onboard with ANY of this prosperity gospel stuff. Whether it be material fortune, or restorative health that comes by faith, and ALWAYS happens unless YOU don't have enough faith(I Know that come right out and say that, but it ABSOLUTELY is what they mean).

They leave out God's Will. God may use YOUR illness or even death, for HIS Glory and your ultimate good.

Jesus said we WILL have troubles and persecutions in this world. I find it very cruel to even unintentionally insinuate that someone is NOT healed because of lack of faith.

 

[sevenseas]

I've heard people say Christians can't be possessed. If a demon infiltrates you into the core of your being, and you areNow may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame a Christian, how is that not possessed? What is it if it's not that? (Real question of the I-don't-get-it persuasion.)

I think they may be in a soul or flesh.

there is this interesting verse though

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I Thess.5:23

they may also just be hanging around making life difficult. they may be in people you work with or even are married to

starts to paint a picture of taking warnings in scripture to be aware of these things as serious business

 

[Angela53510]

I think 5.4%-18.4% is a fair profit margin.

You don't seem upset what the pharmacies are selling them for. (Way more than that.)

And, yup! Socialized medicine was our downfall too. After all, we're seriously into useless regulations that the medical field has to do whether it's good for the patient or not. (And I can really give you a rundown on how harmful that is in a blow-by-blow account from quite a bit I've learned in the last 18 months.) When the government trust no one but themselves it costs the citizens more than just money.

Funny that eyeglasses having a 800%-1000% markup doesn't bother anyone (but the poor who need them), but 5-18% is "greedy business," never "greedy lawmakers" or "greedy pharmacists."

One more time!

Rituxan in Canada - $4000 for 2 infusions
Rituxan in the USA - $65,000-75,000.

Same drug, produced in the same place. Americans pay 18 times more for the same drug. The identical drug! In other words, an American using this drug has to put out between $61,000-71,000 MORE dollars that a Canadian using the same drug.

AND, the Canadian companies are still making money. Nothing wrong with that! Even if you assume a base price of $2000 to produce and distribute the drug, the mark up in Canada is still 100%. But for Americans buying the same drug, the mark up is 3750 times more. That has nothing to do with eye glasses, this is the actual cost difference in the same drug between Canada and the USA.

I don't see how I can make it clearer. Americans are paying 3750% mark up, and Canadians are paying 100% mark up, and still making a profit.

Socialize medicine is NOT our downfall. It has made medical care affordable for everyone, no one falls through the cracks and dies because they are not covered. No one can not afford these drugs, as each province has a supplementary program to pay for drugs, which is free in BC (Just reach the minimumcap, which is low in my case) and in Alberta you pay $141 a month to have all your meds covered with a copay of $25 maximum.) I certainly could not afford my drugs, even at the lower prices if I was not supplemented.

Actually, Canadians consider universal health care to be our most valuable national treasure. No one, repeat NO ONE is calling for an end to universal health care, not the extreme right, the center, or the left. We all are extremely happy with our system. And if there are issues, like wait times, it is something we are willing to put up with. Because a Knee Replacement is not urgent. And cancer, which is - well, I got into see the surgeon in 2 days. The right emphasis in all the right places.

 

[sevenseas]

We are bought (possessed) by the blood of Jesus, sealed in our Spirit Lynn. Our souls and bodies are another thing though.

I believe what we think has a lot to do with whether we are tormented in our minds or not. And unforgiveness is a big thing to stay away from. Leads to a bitter man or woman...no joy of salvation, no living water flow.

We can also be tormented by past happenings to us. Jesus still delivers.

I just read what I wrote about thoughts and our mind. lol What I mean is that a spirit or demon can attach itself to us because of our thinking. Is a reason why the Word is so important to know. And to perceive in truth.

I think we can become bogged down in our thoughts as well. I think these are referred to as strongholds in scripture and we tear these lies down with God's truth

I think committing deliberate sin over and over will also attract demons and create an entry point. I'm talking about Christians here.

I don't think the devil owns Christians. As you say, we are bought with the blood of Christ. However, the devil can do more harm in a saved person's life then some would believe.

 

[stonesoffire]

When it comes to Grace (call it hyper if you want) I am all in IF that definition includes the revelation (which I received) that satan can no longer club you over the head about your sin, with guilt, fear or condemnation. This simple, yet incredible realization, resulted in me actually committing LESS and LESS sin, whereas feeling shame, guilt, anger and other bad feelings led to MORE sin! Totally counter-intuitive to human thought.

BUT I am NOT onboard with ANY of this prosperity gospel stuff. Whether it be material fortune, or restorative health that comes by faith, and ALWAYS happens unless YOU don't have enough faith(I Know that come right out and say that, but it ABSOLUTELY is what they mean).

They leave out God's Will. God may use YOUR illness or even death, for HIS Glory and your ultimate good.

Jesus said we WILL have troubles and persecutions in this world. I find it very cruel to even unintentionally insinuate that someone is NOT healed because of lack of faith.

Isn't this called judging one another? And not a spirit of meekness.

 

[Depleted]

Rather then arguing with "chokmaleihsoe", er howerver its spelt?......PITY THE FOOL! Yet under no circumstances, try to go in there, and shine a light. It'll just frustrate y'all, and cause a vexation of spirit!

Probably, just some hard-cored atheist who hacked into one of those Bible study programs, in its attempt to dissuade and confuse believers!

Although, I do think "chokky" probes in some interesting angles concerning illness, whether mental, er physical, without, confessing Jesus Christ is come in flesh? "chokky" is speaking spuriously along the lines of the spirit of anti-christ, at best, or with a ruler, or rulers of darkness, and their paganistic gods, at worst.

I know, in the Bible somewheres, in the O.T., God Himself states, that (paraphrasing, as I am a guy who doesn't have one of those Bible study programs), that "the evil that men do, does follow unto a 3rd er 4th generation (or further), to those that hate Me!" It was true then, just as it's true now!

Having said this, I just cannot PICTURE the Jesus I know and love and having confessed Him before men/women, kneeling on all fours, like some muslim on a prayer rug, pushing some brightly colored hard boiled egg around with His nose! NOR, can I picture Him, teaching little children of mom's and dad's, to do this! Can you?

Oh yes! spiritual warfare is very real!

It really is, but not in the way you say it is.

I admit it. I don't get Chok yet. (And, Chock, yeah. I know calling you by that one syllable may sound like it comes close to a curse word, but since I can't pronounce it, I'm basically calling you "Chalk." lol)

BUT to go off and call him a fool and/or an atheist? Since when would and atheist study the Bible as much as Chok does? Listen to him. If you were paying attention, he keeps telling when he studied such-and-such scripture, and often times it's been within the last two weeks. Who studies the major prophets for too long? They're depressing! Who studies the history books? Both confusing and depressing! Certainly wouldn't be an atheist. Atheists can easily mock us by laughing at our interpretations of the gospels or Revelation, and to do that, it's much easier to read those books than the history books and prophets Chok's has been studying! So, you aren't paying attention at all to judge him other than he doesn't fit into your narrow belief system.

Truthfully, when I was young in the Lord, I had some really wild ideas of what the Bible said, (including briefly thinking if I believed hard enough Mom would be healed.) And I dare say that many on this site think I still have some really wild ideas about the Bible (like God chooses people. We don't choose God.) So, if someone's ideas don't fit into your ideas, he is automatically an atheist or a FOOL?

You're right. There is spiritual warfare. But that's on you for calling your brother a fool, not on Chok! At least he can back up what he's saying, (even if I don't get what he's saying) with scripture. One up on you!

You need to ask for his forgiveness!

 

[sevenseas]

When it comes to Grace (call it hyper if you want) I am all in IF that definition includes the revelation (which I received) that satan can no longer club you over the head about your sin, with guilt, fear or condemnation. This simple, yet incredible realization, resulted in me actually committing LESS and LESS sin, whereas feeling shame, guilt, anger and other bad feelings led to MORE sin! Totally counter-intuitive to human thought.

BUT I am NOT onboard with ANY of this prosperity gospel stuff. Whether it be material fortune, or restorative health that comes by faith, and ALWAYS happens unless YOU don't have enough faith(I Know that come right out and say that, but it ABSOLUTELY is what they mean).

They leave out God's Will. God may use YOUR illness or even death, for HIS Glory and your ultimate good.

Jesus said we WILL have troubles and persecutions in this world. I find it very cruel to even unintentionally insinuate that someone is NOT healed because of lack of faith.

well I would agree. of course the devil likes to make us think we have committed some sin that cannot be forgiven or we are not good enough or any other lie that goes against what God actually says.

if we struggle not to sin, I think we will become even more aware of it. the real struggle, is to stay in Christ and keep our minds on Him

in fact, that is where our real peace is. God keeps us in His peace as we keep our minds on Him.

I do think our words are important, but I don't believe that faith is saying the opposite of what is actually going on.

that cannot ever be actually helpful. as I said some posts way back, that creates living in a bubble. the time will come when it breaks and that gets messy

 

[sevenseas]

Isn't this called judging one another? And not a spirit of meekness.

sorry

I don't want to get in between people, but how on earth do you see his post as judging?

 

[sevenseas]

I gotta go have a snooze. I had like 5 hours of sleep last night and I am starting to feel it.

be by later I guess

 

[Depleted]

I don't call myself word of faith. But, I do believe that faith has substance in the spiritual realm. And Jesus said His Word is spirit and life. The difference between what I believe and wof is that for me...Spirit and Word must be present for healing to manifest.

There is also recovery...this is healing too.

I have syringomyelia, a very painful spine disease and it is rare. There's really no cure and no meds beyond managing the pain and nerve damage it causes. It is affecting my heart and now have a pacemaker.

My experience in this is the recovery type healing so far. I'm not like I was...even from last week to now. Getting stronger daily, sometimes a setback, but always when ahead...though it may be a small step forward, it is still forward.

The faith of the mustard seed plant is that the roots go down so deep of this bush or tree, whatever...that it is impossible to stamp out.

So healing can be a battle for some...or immediate for others. And just like the scriptures of Hebrews...some die in faith.

I've known people who have died believing, not believing, and have known others who did receive the promises.

So I side with Joanie. And JP...except for one thing. Our healing was finished 2000 yrs ago on the Cross through Jesus, is true. But, for us as I said already...its stages of manifesting.

Or not.. Isn't it odd that we argue over how much good our Father wants to give us?

This is something He spoke to me...whether anyone believes, it matters not to me.

When you speak my Word, in the power of my Spirit, a portal opens in heaven, and I manifest.

I choose to believe Him.

The key difference between WoF and the gospel for me is this:
-- WoF is all about what you can coerse out of God. It's a gimme-gimme-gimme gospel.
-- The gospel is all about God. Our hearts become (as in this is the fight of our lives) more toward his will than wanting to get what we can get out of him.

Healing? Since the Pharaoh's magicians could do the same thing God did through Moses (like making the Nile red like blood -- no mere parlor trick), I suspect WoF folks might be able to heal someone of a health problem here and there. But we want God's healing -- the one where our sins are forgiven and we become more like what he wants us to be because we like being like that. He can, and does, heal, but that's not the goal. Nice side effect when it happens, (like best-present-ever feeling to it), but not the goal.