Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

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Ella85

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#1,981
May 9, 2014
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#1,981
preacher4truth said:
Thanks!

Good, now, what insights did this malefactor have? Did he show that he had a revelation of who Christ was? Did he show repentance? Did he show that Christ was sinless? Did he show faith in Christ?

Did he preach Christ?

The answer to all of that is a resounding "yes". He produced works. Why? Because he was regenerate. And there is much more depth than just that on the surface. :)
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Nope - He simply believed in Christ
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#1,982
Dec 12, 2013
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#1,982
Grace777x70 said:
Acts 16:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I doto be saved?"

[SUP]31 [/SUP] They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
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AMEN...what the workers for call easy believism <---parroting one in ignorance....JESUS calls faith.....BELIEVE = SAVED end of story!
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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#1,984
Dec 28, 2016
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#1,984
Ella85 said:
Nope - He simply believed in Christ
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You haven't had time to even examine the passage and his works that were wrought in God. His belief produced evidence, fruit, works, and that is clear in the text.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#1,985
Dec 12, 2013
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#1,985
preacher4truth said:
Thanks!

Good, now, what insights did this malefactor have? Did he show that he had a revelation of who Christ was? Did he show repentance? Did he show that Christ was sinless? Did he show faith in Christ?

Did he preach Christ?

The answer to all of that is a resounding "yes". He produced works. Why? Because he was regenerate. And there is much more depth than just that on the surface. :)
Click to expand...
I know her personally and she is too smart to fall for this embellishment!
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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#1,986
Dec 28, 2016
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#1,986
For the record, we are saved by grace through faith. Period.

Works do not save, but are indeed evidence of conversion.

No evidence = no conversion.

But you all, go on ahead with the attack and accuse me of saying we work our way to eternal life, something I haven't even remotely stated while showing your limited knowledge and disdain for the Gospel and sound doctrine. :)
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#1,987
Dec 12, 2013
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#1,987
preacher4truth said:
You haven't had time to even examine the passage and his works that were wrought in God. His belief produced evidence, fruit, works, and that is clear in the text.
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Talk about assumptions......how do you know she hasn't examined the passage before......? Another cake taker here.....
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#1,988
Dec 28, 2016
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#1,988
dcontroversal said:
I know her personally and she is too smart to fall for this embellishment!
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Knowing her personally has nothing to do with anything. Maybe the whole problem is just being too smart.

Are you too denying the evidence of conversion alluded to in the passage at hand concerning the malefactor? I just want to see you deny the plain Scriptures here, and their witness concerning him and his conversion.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#1,989
Dec 12, 2013
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#1,989
preacher4truth said:
For the record, we are saved by grace through faith. Period.

Works do not save, but are indeed evidence of conversion.

No evidence = no conversion.

But you all, go on ahead with the attack and accuse me of saying we work our way to eternal life, something I haven't even remotely stated while showing your limited knowledge and disdain for the Gospel and sound doctrine. :)
Click to expand...
If you would take the time to actually read everything we have stated in CC you would find that your bloviated attack and assumptions on what we believe are false and misguided pal....everyone of us including Ella have stated that works and fruit are evidence of salvation as in the result of salvation....but instead of knowing before you flap...you come in here agreeing with a false deceiver who pushes a works based sinless perfectionism and then wonder why we rail.......
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#1,990
Nov 22, 2015
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#1,990
Grace777x70 said:
Acts 16:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

[SUP]31 [/SUP] They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."


Here is Peter preaching the true gospel of the grace of God.

Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."



Here is Paul preaching the exact same gospel.


Acts 13:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

[SUP]39 [/SUP] and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.
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I want to add that true belief is of the heart and not just mental assent that there was a man called Jesus in history. Only God who looks on the heart of men can tell who has true biblical faith in Christ.

This is why it is so important to preach Christ and His finished work on the cross and resurrection so that people have a firm foundation that is based on Christ's work alone. Then we can build from that truth onward.

As we have received Christ - we walk in Him in the very same manner and it is all by grace through faith in Christ. Co. 2:6 and Eph. 2:8-9.

His life in our new creation in Christ will manifest itself in some form as we feed it the proper nutrients which is Christ Himself.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#1,991
Dec 12, 2013
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#1,991
preacher4truth said:
Knowing her personally has nothing to do with anything. Maybe the whole problem is just being too smart.

Are you too denying the evidence of conversion alluded to in the passage at hand concerning the malefactor? I just want to see you deny the plain Scriptures here, and their witness concerning him and his conversion.
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The dude had faith...end of story and that is what saved him...why is that so hard for you to admit?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#1,992
Dec 12, 2013
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#1,992
preacher4truth said:
For the record, we are saved by grace through faith. Period.

Works do not save, but are indeed evidence of conversion.

No evidence = no conversion.

But you all, go on ahead with the attack and accuse me of saying we work our way to eternal life, something I haven't even remotely stated while showing your limited knowledge and disdain for the Gospel and sound doctrine. :)
Click to expand...
Faith is evidence.....<---a spiritual GIFT!

And the WORK of the FATHER!
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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#1,993
Dec 28, 2016
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dcontroversal said:
If you would take the time to actually read everything we have stated in CC you would find that your bloviated attack and assumptions on what we believe are false and misguided pal....everyone of us including Ella have stated that works and fruit are evidence of salvation as in the result of salvation....but instead of knowing before you flap...you come in here agreeing with a false deceiver who pushes a works based sinless perfectionism and then wonder why we rail.......
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You're totally misrepresenting me here, and are obviously blinded by anger. The record stands. PeterJens is wrong on many accounts, but he nailed you with your truncated gospel. For the record, I didn't agree with the dude who pushes that nonsense, only in your blind mouthy anger have you come to that false conclusion. :)

I agree he nailed your false truncated gospel, and his works gospel is as fake as yours. :)
 
W

wsblind

Guest
#1,994
#1,994
preacher4truth said:
For the record, we are saved by grace through faith. Period.

Works do not save, but are indeed evidence of conversion.

No evidence = no conversion.

But you all, go on ahead with the attack and accuse me of saying we work our way to eternal life, something I haven't even remotely stated while showing your limited knowledge and disdain for the Gospel and sound doctrine. :)
Click to expand...
So then your Gospel is evidence=salvation.

Acts 16:31 is not " Show evidence and you shall be saved."

And it is just the opposite of showing our "little knowledge". It takes quite a bit of study to discern a lot of " Grace But" Or "Grace,however" or "grace And" or " Grace then" false teachings.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#1,995
Dec 28, 2016
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#1,995
dcontroversal said:
The dude had faith...end of story and that is what saved him...why is that so hard for you to admit?
Click to expand...

Answer the question and show me where I'm incorrect in showing his evidences of conversion. His faith was evidence of conversion. :) Bt go ahead, show me where what I shared about his evidences were wrong and didn't happen. :)
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#1,996
Dec 12, 2013
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#1,996
preacher4truth said:
You're totally misrepresenting me here, and are obviously blinded by anger. The record stands. PeterJens is wrong on many accounts, but he nailed you with your truncated gospel. For the record, I didn't agree with the dude who pushes that nonsense, only in your blind mouthy anger have you come to that false conclusion. :)

I agree he nailed your false truncated gospel, and his works gospel is as fake as yours. :)
Click to expand...
Not hardly pal.....my stance is good and biblical...regardless of your rejection and embellishment....the bible is clear...belief into Jesus = salvation..deny if you choose..could care less>
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

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Nov 22, 2015
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#1,998
Another aspect that goes with "fruit inspecting and fruit inspectors" is just what is fruit? And what does this fruit look like.

We know what the fruit of the Spirit are which are evidence of Him living in us - love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, patience, faith, gentleness and self-control.

What if as an analogy a Christian is like an orange tree?

An orange tree is still an orange tree even though it doesn't produce the fruit we want to see in the timeframe we think it should. What happens if this orange tree dies before it has had a chance to be fed properly to grow up to be able to produce the fruit of a ripe orange?

To some works-based people - you would have to display 50 oranges in order to prove you are a real orange tree ( saved ) - to others you need 100 oranges in order to be a proved orange tree. ( saved )

So, this fruit inspection thing is not viable ..that's for God to look at people to determine if they are in Christ or not.

A person could have love and kindness or gentleness as a fruit in their life but be addicted to some pills or alcohol which they are continuing to struggle with in their life or outbursts of anger..etc.

We religious people love to "categorize" sin - especially the ones that we have never done before and then look down on those that do have a problem that we don't. We say that they are "sinning" - and they are but so are we in other areas too. We all have the flesh to deal with and none of us behaves perfectly in our behavior.

The people that don't have a struggle with alcohol ( or basically anything that they themselves don't struggle with in their flesh that others do ) will condemn the ones that do have these struggles in the flesh and declare they don't have the fruit and thus are not saved. This is Pharisee-ism at it's finest.

Does the orange tree stop being an orange tree even though it dies without having fruit that we think "proves" it was an orange tree to begin with?

What if Christians were like that? What if we fed them messages about the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness in Christ so that they could grow? Then they would bear His fruit in and through them in abundance.

I say let's preach and teach the grace of Christ in their lives so that they have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him!
 
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preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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Dec 28, 2016
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dcontroversal said:
Not hardly pal.....my stance is good and biblical...regardless of your rejection and embellishment....the bible is clear...belief into Jesus = salvation..deny if you choose..could care less>
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Your gospel is truncated. He nailed you on that. Belief is qualified, I showed you Scripture on that, but you won't abide in those teachings, you reject them in your easy-believe-ism. :)
 
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