I was going to ignore this thread because my views are going to be unpopular here, and I had made a decision to be less argumentative... but this thread is filled with so much ignorance and prejudice, it would be dishonest of me to ignore. This thread is a great example of why I have a great deal of difficulty accepting any organised religion, and if it represents the mainstream attitude of the Christians here, then perhaps this is not the community for me after all.
I currently live in one of those supposedly Muslim-dominated cities in England (Birmingham), and in the past I have even lived in a poor neighborhood where South Asians (mostly Indians and those of Pakistani origin) made up perhaps ~50% of the local population. Here are the real facts, from somebody who "has no dog in the fight" and has met people from all sorts of backgrounds thanks to the very varied journey life has taken me on thus far.*
- Question: Are there "no go zones" in Birmingham, England? This is a large city where 20%-25% of the people are Muslims, mostly of Pakistani origin, and it's very often taken by the far right as an example of "Muslim takeover of Europe".
- Answer: Kind of. But not because parts of the city are governed by Shariah Law, and as a non-Muslim, I'd be attacked on sight. Parts of the city feel unsafe because there are poor and deprived neighborhoods where the people are ignorant, unemployed, uneducated, miserable and angry. It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with socio-economics. In fact I am far more concerned about being attacked by gangs of white or black youths than Muslim youths. Many Muslims feel like outsiders in England, and frankly have less confidence to disregard the law like disenfranchised native people, often called the Underclass or NEETs (Not in Education, Employment or Training).
- Question: Most terrorists are Muslims, so Islam must be a violent religion, right?
- Answer: No. Muslims are human beings just like everyone else. Among every population there are good and bad people, and having met people of so many different backgrounds, I know for sure that we have far more in common than that which divide us. So why Muslim terrorists? Well the Christian West has been dominant in the world for ~400 years, whilst the Islamic world never recovered from the Fall of Baghdad to the Mongols in 1258, and since the decline of the Ottoman Empire, there has been no prominent Islamic nation in the world. If the USA has a problem with a country, the US military invades that country and forces it to comply with US national interests. (And the list of countries the USA has invaded since WW2 is quite impressive). In contrast, what can an angry Palestinian do about his perceived injustices? There is no Palestinian national army he can join to fight for his peoples' interests. Desperation, centuries of humiliation and perceived injustice, leads to radicalization and desperate tactics. In WW2, China fought on the side of the Allies against Fascist Japan. China was also heavily outgunned by a technologically far superior Japanese Imperial Army, there many tales of Chinese soldiers launching suicide attacks against the Japanese. Are those soldiers terrorists?
- Question: You're a multiculturalism liberal aren't you?
- Answer: No, absolutely not. I am instinctively conservative, and even as an immigrant myself, I fundamentally disagree with the liberal idea that multiculturalism is inherently good and "enriches" society. I believe traditional values and national identities are worth preserving because they have inherent value. England should remain mostly English, China should remain mostly Chinese and Turkey should remain mostly Turkish. It is not racist to oppose excessive immigration that will change what it means to be English, Chinese or Turkish. Do I wish Birmingham had more native white English people and less ethnic minorities? Yes I do, Birmingham is an English city. BUT if your rationale for wanting that is because you feel that one ethnic group is somehow superior to another, then yes you are a bigot and a racist.
- Question: Does the Muslim community have a problem with radicalization and integration in Europe?
- Answer: Yes they do. The liberals prefer to pretend everyone is one big happy family if we all just talk to each other, but that's not the reality on the ground. The fact is that due to the horrors of Fascism ruining much of Europe in WW2, most of Western Europe adopted a very negative attitude to nationalism of any kind. There is no civics or patriotic education in most Western European countries. As somebody who experienced Chinese nationalist indoctrination in the first three years of education in China, I can safely say that "I love Britain more than most British people", because China gave me the basis for an understanding of the importance of nation and society, which ironically my native British friends would have balked at as "propaganda". The result is that unlike the USA, which was founded on immigration and is actually very successful at integrating immigrants, Western Europe has struggled to integrate its immigrant populations. Of course I am generalizing here, but there is a clear difference between the level of integration of immigrant populations in the USA and Western Europe.
In summary Islamic nations and Muslim communities in Western countries
do have a problem that needs to be tackled objectively, honestly and fairly, but thus far the narrative has been mostly hijacked by ignorant bigoted radicals on both sides and delusional liberals who are terrified of offending everyone. I am not really that hopeful of any improvement, if anything our world has been regressive in the worst ways in recent years, but I felt compelled to share the truth that my experiences have taught me. I hope it informs some of you at least.
Sincerely,
Hao
*
My relevant background: I was born in China and came to England with my parents when I was 8 years old. I actually attended a Jewish primary school for 3 years when I first got here. The school taught Hebrew and Jewish faith in addition to the standard English curriculum, but it accepted children of different backgrounds, including Atheists, Christians and Muslims. In my life thus far I have been friends with native British people, some of whom were Christian, I have been friends with Sunni Muslims from a Pakistani origin, and a Shia Muslim from Iraq, I have been friends with Chinese immigrants like me, some more integrated into British culture than me, some less integrated than me, and at university I met people from pretty much everywhere around the world. Among every group of people there are amazingly kind, generous and positive individuals, and angry, selfish and negative individuals. There is far more difference within a given demographic group than between different groups as a whole. I can say that with absolute confidence because I have lived my entire life between worlds, between groups, and it constantly amazes me how much common humanity there is between us all.
