TRIBULATION LIE
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In the time of the building of the temple (Ezra) no man could just have a part in building
he had to first prove his priestly line by supplying credentials
so Jerusalem is preparing priests?
How?
and how do they overlook GOD declaring all unclean
The temple will be built during troublous times
who do you think is making "trouble" for the Jews who want to build their temple?
Sir, I believe it's THE BODY of Believers who will be seen as troublemakers, those who are brave enough to warn and remind their Jewish brothers of the scriptures who will be killed for their testimony
he had to first prove his priestly line by supplying credentials
so Jerusalem is preparing priests?
How?
and how do they overlook GOD declaring all unclean
The temple will be built during troublous times
who do you think is making "trouble" for the Jews who want to build their temple?
Sir, I believe it's THE BODY of Believers who will be seen as troublemakers, those who are brave enough to warn and remind their Jewish brothers of the scriptures who will be killed for their testimony
Also another thing to consider is if say the trumpets and the bowls are different from the tribulation itself and God's wrath then maybe if it can be confirmed that only part of the tribulation is god's wrath on earth that may help explain the rapture itself. Now again I have no firm stance on the rapture but lets say that we are going to see some tribulation before God's wrath comes to earth, after all God never said he spare us from tribulation in fact Jesus even said we would see tribulation in this life and over and over in the bible his children walked through trails and testing yet protected and empowered.
However it is also said we are not appointed to wrath. Also the rapture and the day of the lord seem to be different focuses as well, the rapture is often spoken of us meeting him in the clouds or him taking us up in a whirlwind but when it speaks of Jesus returning it speaks of a blazing fire in his eyes and the armies of heaven are right behind him.
Personally I think there is more than meets the eye with all of this and instead of debating over which view is right perhaps we should discuss all this and try to understand it.
However it is also said we are not appointed to wrath. Also the rapture and the day of the lord seem to be different focuses as well, the rapture is often spoken of us meeting him in the clouds or him taking us up in a whirlwind but when it speaks of Jesus returning it speaks of a blazing fire in his eyes and the armies of heaven are right behind him.
Personally I think there is more than meets the eye with all of this and instead of debating over which view is right perhaps we should discuss all this and try to understand it.
There is no such thing as "THE GREAT TRIBULATION" Period, end of story. Since this misunderstood event is not valid, the timing of the rapture being located before this fictitious event is also not valid and is indeed impossible.
Jesus taught in the Olivet that there would be "great tribulation" (suffering, deception and death) for the "faithless and perverse" generation of His era. He warned His faithful to flee Judea when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by (Roman) armies. These Roman armies were aka the "Abomination of Desolation." Any foreign army standing in the temple complex or temple itself is an "Abomination" by very definition. The great tribulation which befell over 2 million Jews in 66-70 AD was the worst period of suffering any nation had ever endured to that point or would ever endure again. This was the so-called great tribulation that so many think is future and that we will be raptured from. How silly.
In Rev 7, John is told by one of the Elders in Heaven that a great multitude of believers will be killed for their faith from every nation, language and tongue. “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation..." simply means these believers were being persecuted and killed for their faith and that this happens all over the world. This has been happening since Stephen and has continued in varying degrees ever since.
So, the so-called "great tribulation" spoken of by Jesus in Mat 24:21 dealt with the "faithless and perverse" generation which killed Christ. That generation faced God's wrath and it was the worst punishment any nation ever endured. The other so-called "great tribulation" is not a singular event to be raptured from but is rather a continual, global persecution of Christians by the wicked on earth.
Jesus taught in the Olivet that there would be "great tribulation" (suffering, deception and death) for the "faithless and perverse" generation of His era. He warned His faithful to flee Judea when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by (Roman) armies. These Roman armies were aka the "Abomination of Desolation." Any foreign army standing in the temple complex or temple itself is an "Abomination" by very definition. The great tribulation which befell over 2 million Jews in 66-70 AD was the worst period of suffering any nation had ever endured to that point or would ever endure again. This was the so-called great tribulation that so many think is future and that we will be raptured from. How silly.
In Rev 7, John is told by one of the Elders in Heaven that a great multitude of believers will be killed for their faith from every nation, language and tongue. “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation..." simply means these believers were being persecuted and killed for their faith and that this happens all over the world. This has been happening since Stephen and has continued in varying degrees ever since.
So, the so-called "great tribulation" spoken of by Jesus in Mat 24:21 dealt with the "faithless and perverse" generation which killed Christ. That generation faced God's wrath and it was the worst punishment any nation ever endured. The other so-called "great tribulation" is not a singular event to be raptured from but is rather a continual, global persecution of Christians by the wicked on earth.
No - this is the end of "the Tribulations"...
Matthew 24:
[SUP]29[/SUP] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
I noticed that you quoted the verse, but left out the word 'Immediately'. What is that about?
Even still -- what you posted says "after" -- but, you say that it really means "before"...???
Where you are going wrong is the 70th week of Daniel.
Believe-it-or-not!
Matthew 24:
[SUP]29[/SUP] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
I noticed that you quoted the verse, but left out the word 'Immediately'. What is that about?
Even still -- what you posted says "after" -- but, you say that it really means "before"...???
Where you are going wrong is the 70th week of Daniel.
Believe-it-or-not!
Yes sir...the starting and the Ending..
You need to understand the time and audience of Paul's letters. In this case, was Paul writing to us, to the 19 centuries of Christians all over the world? Was he writing to the last generation of Christians, or was he writing to the Church of the Thessalonians? Let's see:
"To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ..."
It looks like Paul was writing to them. Most believe he wrote his first letter towards the end of 52 AD. Start back with Paul's first letter, first chapter. What is the context?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
Jesus was to deliver them (the Church of Thessaloniki) from the "wrath to come." What wrath? God's wrath, right? Who was God mad at in 52 AD? We get a hint in 1 Thes 2:
"[SUP]14 [/SUP]For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans, [SUP]15 [/SUP]who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us..."
Does it appear that God was angry with those who killed Jesus, the same who killed their prophets and who persecuted the saved Jewish Christians in Judea? Was John the Baptist one of those prophets they killed? What did John the Baptist have to say about God's wrath to come and who was this wrath aimed at? Check out Mat 3:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Wrath to come when, 2000+ years later or to them in their generation? Thus Paul was writing about the wrath to come in less than 18 years from when he wrote it.
"To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ..."
It looks like Paul was writing to them. Most believe he wrote his first letter towards the end of 52 AD. Start back with Paul's first letter, first chapter. What is the context?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
Jesus was to deliver them (the Church of Thessaloniki) from the "wrath to come." What wrath? God's wrath, right? Who was God mad at in 52 AD? We get a hint in 1 Thes 2:
"[SUP]14 [/SUP]For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans, [SUP]15 [/SUP]who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us..."
Does it appear that God was angry with those who killed Jesus, the same who killed their prophets and who persecuted the saved Jewish Christians in Judea? Was John the Baptist one of those prophets they killed? What did John the Baptist have to say about God's wrath to come and who was this wrath aimed at? Check out Mat 3:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Wrath to come when, 2000+ years later or to them in their generation? Thus Paul was writing about the wrath to come in less than 18 years from when he wrote it.
The colon is both a 'separator' and a 'connector'.
In Revelation 6:15-17, verse 17 is an 'extension' explanation of verse 16 - and is part of what 'the people who were hiding' said...
Grammatically speaking, what does the word 'For' in verse 17 have to stand on if it does not refer back to verse 16?
( You are grasping for something in the dark. )
In Revelation 6:15-17, verse 17 is an 'extension' explanation of verse 16 - and is part of what 'the people who were hiding' said...
Grammatically speaking, what does the word 'For' in verse 17 have to stand on if it does not refer back to verse 16?
( You are grasping for something in the dark. )
"Use the semicolon (a) between main clauses not linked by and, but, or,nor,for,so,or yet and (b) between coordinate elements containing commas" Harbrace Colledge Handbook, 1984... Pp 151, 14
This indeed is your problem, a good understanding of hermeneutics (the branch of knowledge that deals with interpretation, especially of the Bible or literary texts.) and sentence structure used in the Biblical texts.
Gen 1:2..."2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. As you can see here, a Semi-colon thus, the second sentence highlights the 1st sentence.
Gen 1:2...."3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."Here the COLON thus, the first sentence highlights the second sentence.
Now look...at my post: "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" The semi-colon here thus the second sentence actually highlights the first sentence. "WHO SHALL BE ABLE TO STAND",,STAND WHAT------ the Great day of his wrath.
Rev 6:15-17.."15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;" Notice the semicolon here thus verse 16 is highlighting verse 15.
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: Notice the colon here thus verse 16 is highlighting verse 17 and they are different subjects as well.
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? "WHO SHALL BE ABLE TO STAND",,STAND WHAT------ the Great day of his wrath.
p.s. I did name the semi-colon as a colon. My Bad.
I can go on but your post-trib has been debunked many years ago by scholars far more knowledgeable than I.
The Perterist movement or the replacement theology has also been debunked as well.
I guess the question you and others should be asking... When the Rapture happens, because you believe in Jesus yet are not watching for it, will you be taken to heaven anyway????? or will you be like the unwatching 5 virgins and be left behind.
ARE YOU that SURE????Really......because I AM that SURE about the happening of the RAPTURE.
[SUP]62 [/SUP]And the high priest arose and said to Him, “Do You answer nothing? What is it these men testify against You?” [SUP]63 [/SUP]But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!”
[SUP]64 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Did the High Priest see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of God and coming with the clouds (armies) of heaven? Christ said he would. Should we take Christ at His word? I think it would be wise to do so.
Jesus predicted the same thing in Mat 24, right?
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Therefore immediately after the great tribulation of the Jews in 70 AD, Christ is seen with the armies of heaven. He was coming to pass judgment and to execute wrath on those who killed Him. Those of that "faithless and perverse" generation. Is there any room for doubt here? What else did Christ say in Mat 24?
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
This can only mean that the generation which killed Him would see EVERYTHING that Christ foretold and it will all happen in their generation.
[SUP]64 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Did the High Priest see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of God and coming with the clouds (armies) of heaven? Christ said he would. Should we take Christ at His word? I think it would be wise to do so.
Jesus predicted the same thing in Mat 24, right?
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Therefore immediately after the great tribulation of the Jews in 70 AD, Christ is seen with the armies of heaven. He was coming to pass judgment and to execute wrath on those who killed Him. Those of that "faithless and perverse" generation. Is there any room for doubt here? What else did Christ say in Mat 24?
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
This can only mean that the generation which killed Him would see EVERYTHING that Christ foretold and it will all happen in their generation.
You actually need to remember and not think what Paul was reminding the Thessalonians in his second letter to them
it had to do with THE COMING OF THE LORD and that this day would not come until all things are accomplished
one of those things being 2thesselonians 2 so that the man of sin may be revealed
paul says in his second letter "don't you remember I told you these things?"
now go back to the first letter
it had to do with THE COMING OF THE LORD and that this day would not come until all things are accomplished
one of those things being 2thesselonians 2 so that the man of sin may be revealed
paul says in his second letter "don't you remember I told you these things?"
now go back to the first letter
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