Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#2,701
Feb 15, 2017
8,884
4,334
113
#2,701
Angela_grace said:
I agree with all of this. Each of these men failed greatly and were great men of God. But I would like to stress the fact that Jesus has not yet been crucified when these failings took place. I'm not saying we don't sin now. But things are not exactly the same. We have access to the Holy Spirit now, which came at Pentecost.
Click to expand...
I think the great men of God in the OT had the presence of the Holy Spirit with them, in them.

Psalms 139:7
Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?



1 Samuel 16:12-13
So he sent and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, with bright eyes, and good-looking. And the Lord said, “Arise, anoint him; for this is the one!” Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel arose and went to Ramah.

The above concerns David.

If I am wrong then open to correction.

If I got it right maybe others could add something for the other greats in the OT
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#2,702
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,601
113
#2,702
And they had access to Jesus, right there and then.. Especially Peter or he would've drowned..lol


Angela_grace said:
I agree with all of this. Each of these men failed greatly and were great men of God. But I would like to stress the fact that Jesus has not yet been crucified when these failings took place. I'm not saying we don't sin now. But things are not exactly the same. We have access to the Holy Spirit now, which came at Pentecost.
Click to expand...
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#2,704
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#2,704
Angela_grace said:
Yes, God does not change. But I think are access to Him does. The Holy Spirit was there but he could not reside in us. Since we were still sinners because Christ had not been crucified yet. Our sin had yet to be atoned for. I believe the sending of the Holy Spirit was very important. Why else would Jesus say wait until the Holy Spirit has come upon you? (Luke 24:49)
Click to expand...
1. He was in certain ones. Pharaoh recognized that the Spirit was in Joseph (Gen. 41:38). Likely Pharaoh did not understand this was the Holy Spirit, but later revelation seems to make this clear. The Spirit was in Joshua which is why God chose him (Num. 27:18). The Spirit was in Daniel (Dan. 4:8; 5:11-14; 6:3). In these instances the preposition used is beth, “in.”

2. The Spirit came upon some. The preposition used to depict this is al. A number of people experienced this ministry of the Spirit (Num. 24:2; Judges 3:10; 6:34; 11:29; 13:25; 1 Sam. 10:10; 16:13; 2 Chron. 15:1). These included judges, Saul, and the prophets Balaam and Azariah.

3. The Spirit filled Bezalel. (Ex. 31:3; 35:31). This seemed to be a special enablement to lead the craftsmen as they worked on the tabernacle.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#2,705
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#2,705
BillG said:
I think the great men of God in the OT had the presence of the Holy Spirit with them, in them.

Psalms 139:7
Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?



1 Samuel 16:12-13
So he sent and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, with bright eyes, and good-looking. And the Lord said, “Arise, anoint him; for this is the one!” Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel arose and went to Ramah.

The above concerns David.

If I am wrong then open to correction.

If I got it right maybe others could add something for the other greats in the OT
Click to expand...
AMEN post 2704
 
Angela_grace

Angela_grace

Senior Member
#2,707
Jan 3, 2016
196
10
18
#2,707
dcontroversal said:
1. He was in certain ones. Pharaoh recognized that the Spirit was in Joseph (Gen. 41:38). Likely Pharaoh did not understand this was the Holy Spirit, but later revelation seems to make this clear. The Spirit was in Joshua which is why God chose him (Num. 27:18). The Spirit was in Daniel (Dan. 4:8; 5:11-14; 6:3). In these instances the preposition used is beth, “in.”

2. The Spirit came upon some. The preposition used to depict this is al. A number of people experienced this ministry of the Spirit (Num. 24:2; Judges 3:10; 6:34; 11:29; 13:25; 1 Sam. 10:10; 16:13; 2 Chron. 15:1). These included judges, Saul, and the prophets Balaam and Azariah.

3. The Spirit filled Bezalel. (Ex. 31:3; 35:31). This seemed to be a special enablement to lead the craftsmen as they worked on the tabernacle.
Click to expand...
Ok, so why Pentecost? Why did Jesus tell them to wait for the Holy Spirit to come upon them? I'm honestly curious. If you have answers...
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#2,708
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#2,708
blue_ladybug said:
And they had access to Jesus, right there and then.. Especially Peter or he would've drowned..lol
Click to expand...

It is the Spirit that makes alive...Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born from above by the Spirit.....every man, woman an child that has ever been born from above was born by a spiritual birth fro the Spirit of God....JOHN who was the LAST prophet HAD the SPIRIT from his mother's womb...this one example ruins the belief that the Spirit did not indwell the O.T. believer...
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#2,710
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#2,710
Angela_grace said:
Ok, so why Pentecost? Why did Jesus tell them to wait for the Holy Spirit to come upon them? I'm honestly curious. If you have answers...
Click to expand...
It was the empowering of the church to fulfill the commission of going into all the world.....nothing more, nothing less....each individual has the Spirit dwelling in them as a believer

Jesus said the LAW and Prophets were until John the Baptist<---HE had the spirit from his mother's womb.....and was an O.T. saint and none greater among those born of women other than Jesus
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#2,711
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#2,711
dcontroversal said:
It is the Spirit that makes alive...Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born from above by the Spirit.....every man, woman an child that has ever been born from above was born by a spiritual birth fro the Spirit of God....JOHN who was the LAST prophet HAD the SPIRIT from his mother's womb...this one example ruins the belief that the Spirit did not indwell the O.T. believer...
Click to expand...
I don't see John as the end of the OT, but the beginning of the NT. Hes' an example of those born of a new creation. From a spiritual birth, not just physical.
 
Angela_grace

Angela_grace

Senior Member
#2,712
Jan 3, 2016
196
10
18
#2,712
dcontroversal said:
It was the empowering of the church to fulfill the commission of going into all the world.....nothing more, nothing less....each individual has the Spirit dwelling in them as a believer
Click to expand...
Empowered to go shine your light, show who Jesus is, be the righteousness of God, which includes being empowered not to sin. IMO.
 
Last edited:
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#2,714
Feb 15, 2017
8,884
4,334
113
#2,714
stonesoffire said:
I don't see John as the end of the OT, but the beginning of the NT. Hes' an example of those born of a new creation. From a spiritual birth, not just physical.
Click to expand...
John is one of the most important prophets to study in the Bible as he sits just between the Old and New Testaments thus joining them. John was the last of the OT prophets who completed the final leg of the Old Testament. He was beheaded during Jesus’ ministry. As a forerunner he handed the baton to Jesus to fully usher in the New Testament.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2,715
#2,715
Angela_grace said:
Empowered to go shine your light, show who Jesus is, be the righteousness of God, which includes being empowered not to sin. IMO.
Click to expand...

Abraham had that power. So did David, Called a man after Gods own heart.

Again we have to ask the question. Are you sinless.. If not. Why not? Have you failed.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#2,717
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#2,717
eternally-gratefull said:

Abraham had that power. So did David, Called a man after Gods own heart.

Again we have to ask the question. Are you sinless.. If not. Why not? Have you failed.
Click to expand...
Exactly what I was thinking....she said yes above...by her own words either she is not empowered by the spirt, lacks the spirit or is not saved....by her own words.....!
 
M

mj007

Banned
#2,718
Feb 5, 2017
1,118
36
0
#2,718
To me the Holy Spirit is the frequency of God, tuning into the right frequency is invoking the Holy Spirit. Jesus' way, truth and life, had the exact frequency of God, he did everything that purified that frequency, and if we observe his nature, then so to say, 'through him', we find God. Of course some take that literally as meaning 'through him' and then turn Jesus into an idol of worship. And they will always persist at the idea of Jesus being 'better than' us. But Jesus did not live in that kind of judgemental world of analytics, of logical minds. Love is a different language altogether, that comes from God because it is God.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.