The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished

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Dec 3, 2016
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That's the same thing the Jews thought 2000 yrs ago. They were wrong, too.
When God said He would write His laws upon our hearts (speaking of those that would be born again)... He musta jus been kidding around... a little Heavenly joke eh?

No, we do not follow the levitical laws as such but we do walk in agreement with God's ways of being and doing right lest we find ourselves opposing God ending up spending eternity separated from Him which ain't gonna be nuthin nice.
 
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zohar

Guest
The Jews were not wrong 2000 years ago and the aren't wrong now. God gave the laws to the Israelite and they keeps the laws as much as possible today; another heavenly joke eh?
Without the laws given by God there is no way to know if you walk with agreement with god; maybe we should study more about god's laws?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Without the laws given by God there is no way to know if you walk with agreement with god;
Unless you knew Him personally. And He gave you the gift of Wisdom and Revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ.

maybe we should study more about god's laws?
You could study time travel but that isn't going to cause you to be able understand it and then do it.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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When God said He would write His laws upon our hearts (speaking of those that would be born again)... He musta jus been kidding around... a little Heavenly joke eh?

No, we do not follow the levitical laws as such but we do walk in agreement with God's ways of being and doing right lest we find ourselves opposing God ending up spending eternity separated from Him which ain't gonna be nuthin nice.
So what exactly are you trying to say?

Are you saying that the Jews were right? Or are you saying the Levitical Law has been done away?

Or are you just being funny?
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
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That's kind of backwards.

We are justified by faith. And the law is not of faith.

So Christ fulfills the law in us, by faith. And that is how we are His Workmanship and not our own. We don't strive to fulfill laws. We strive to abide in Christ and Rest in Him.

Otherwise, Rest is no rest at all. And some would have a place to boast.

I suppose it works out pretty much the same in the end, as long as your focus and goal is Christ and not fulfilling laws.
Why can't we live out Christ's victory?
 
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zohar

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I am saying that we should be in agreement with the Jews and we shouldn't say that they are wrong; god gave the laws to the Jews and that is your paradox. God gave the laws to be followed forever and that is a fact that cannot be disputed; this is your dilemma. Maybe Jesus which was a Jew himself did not mean for Christians to abolish the “old law” (saying old law is the same as saying god is old)
 
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limey410

Guest
So what exactly are you trying to say?

Are you saying that the Jews were right? Or are you saying the Levitical Law has been done away?

Or are you just being funny?
C'mon Grampa, don't you know the law that God wrote on our hearts is just a Levitical Lite, not as tough ya know, don't have to do quite as much to be righteous. If you screw up sprinkle a little grace on it, it will be fine.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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The Law of Moses has not been abolished, because heaven and earth has not yet passed away, hence "unit heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle will pass away from the Law..." and "whoever sets aside the least of the commands, will be called least...". Even Paul says, "we do not nullify the Law by this faith, but we uphold the Law". Let's start a discussion on these matters.
What do you consider to be the law of Moses? For example have you burnt a witch or stoned anyone to death recently?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Why can't we live out Christ's victory?
2 Corinthians 12:9 [FONT=&quot]And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

[/FONT]
We can. But we will always be like little children. We are weak but He is Strong.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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The condemnation of the law has been nailed to the cross for all who believe and the law is for the lawless.....NEXT!
Good understanding here D. The condemnation brought about by transgressing the Law was nailed to the cross, not the Law itself...

Col 2:14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

"The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances) or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the cross.

Which requirements were wiped out?

Please understand that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin) is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"). But only the penalty, not the law!" - Dr. Robert Thiel
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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I am saying that we should be in agreement with the Jews and we shouldn't say that they are wrong; god gave the laws to the Jews and that is your paradox. God gave the laws to be followed forever and that is a fact that cannot be disputed; this is your dilemma. Maybe Jesus which was a Jew himself did not mean for Christians to abolish the “old law” (saying old law is the same as saying god is old)
Its not my paradox.

God gave the laws so that you would know you have no chance of ever following them. So that all would be guilty before it. All will have to rely on His Mercy and Grace.

If we were in agreement with the Jews then Christ served no purpose. We could have just had a prophet tell us to straighten up and work at the law better.

The paradox that you speak of is that the law was never abolished or changed. Its just not meant to be followed by a carnal understanding in a persons own "strength". That's missing the whole point. As far as Christianity is concerned.

If you want to follow Judaism then the carnal following of the law in your own strength and understanding is very important.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
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C'mon Grampa, don't you know the law that God wrote on our hearts is just a Levitical Lite, not as tough ya know, don't have to do quite as much to be righteous. If you screw up sprinkle a little grace on it, it will be fine.
Is that the heavenly joke they were talking about?

The law is just a little condemning and it just brings a little death? Nothing to be worried about?

I guess I'm missing the punch line or something. It still doesn't seem funny to me....
 
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limey410

Guest
Is that the heavenly joke they were talking about?

The law is just a little condemning and it just brings a little death? Nothing to be worried about?

I guess I'm missing the punch line or something. It still doesn't seem funny to me....
Right, the irony is while trying to live under both law and grace, the consequences of both are minimized.
 
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zohar

Guest
Its not my paradox.

God gave the laws so that you would know you have no chance of ever following them. So that all would be guilty before it. All will have to rely on His Mercy and Grace.

If we were in agreement with the Jews then Christ served no purpose. We could have just had a prophet tell us to straighten up and work at the law better.

The paradox that you speak of is that the law was never abolished or changed. Its just not meant to be followed by a carnal understanding in a persons own "strength". That's missing the whole point. As far as Christianity is concerned.

If you want to follow Judaism then the carnal following of the law in your own strength and understanding is very important.
It is become a paradox to Christians
God gave those laws to the Jews and the Christians saying that they dot have to follow them; and yet they say they believe in God.
What laws you have no chance of following them?
Judaism is the foundation of Christianity;without the Old Testament there is no New Testament.
 
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limey410

Guest
It is become a paradox to Christians
God gave those laws to the Jews and the Christians saying that they dot have to follow them; and yet they say they believe in God.
What laws you have no chance of following them?
Judaism is the foundation of Christianity;without the Old Testament there is no New Testament.
Christ is the foundation of Christianity. Christ invoked the new covenant that was prophesied throughout the scriptures. There is no new without the old, that is true, because there would be no comparison. It would just be The Covenant.
 
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zohar

Guest
Christ is the foundation of Christianity. Christ invoked the new covenant that was prophesied throughout the scriptures. There is no new without the old, that is true, because there would be no comparison. It would just be The Covenant.
So God's laws were only a temporary until Jesus decided to change it?
That's a powerful reasons for the Jews to reject Jesus.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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It is become a paradox to Christians
God gave those laws to the Jews and the Christians saying that they dot have to follow them; and yet they say they believe in God.
What laws you have no chance of following them?
Judaism is the foundation of Christianity;without the Old Testament there is no New Testament.
Judaism isn't the foundation of Christianity. Christ is the foundation of Christianity.

Judaism pointed forward in the future to Christ.

Christianity points back to the Work that Christ has accomplished and is accomplishing.


There is no point in practicing a religion that points to a future event that has already happened. Its pointless.
 
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limey410

Guest
So God's laws were only a temporary until Jesus decided to change it?
That's a powerful reasons for the Jews to reject Jesus.
Well, it's not quite like that.

There were many reasons for the law, one of them was to show that it is impossible to truly know God outside of His grace and mercy.

A foreshadowing of the Messiah (The law never states that if you can accomplish it that you will know your God or have everlasting life)
Jesus came to free us from the law so that we could be indwelled by the Holy Spirit, first being forgiven by His death, and then given eternal life through His resurrection by accepting the reason He died and asking Him into our lives as Lord and Savior, with the free gift of Him (the Holy Spirit).

This allows us a personal relationship with Him, daily communion, walking, talking and living with the Creator of the Universe outside of the bondage of law (on this earth) and for eternity in Heaven.

That's the awesomeness of it all. Not by our works through the Law, but by His actions of grace and mercy. We serve a merciful God. Hallelujah.

Yes the Pharisees and Sadducees rejected Jesus in part because He was a threat to their way of life. Not all Jews rejected the Messiah.
 
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zohar

Guest
Yes the Pharisees and Sadducees rejected Jesus in part because He was a threat to their way of life. Not all Jews rejected the Messiah.[/QUOTE]
Well, don't forget the Romans they were eager to crucify him because he claimed to be the king of the Jews. Those Pharisees and Sadducees were under the Roman brutal rule, which include crucifying, throwing people to the Lions, etc.
What kind of Messiah are you following?
 
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limey410

Guest
Yes the Pharisees and Sadducees rejected Jesus in part because He was a threat to their way of life. Not all Jews rejected the Messiah. Well, don't forget the Romans they were eager to crucify him because he claimed to be the king of the Jews. Those Pharisees and Sadducees were under the Roman brutal rule, which include crucifying, throwing people to the Lions, etc.
What kind of Messiah are you following?
Yes it was a brutal regime historically. Your question is a good question, and had me thinking for a second.

I follow a Messiah that loves me so much that he saw my depravity, my sin, and my evil ways, and still had himself put on a cross to die for me. (I am included in the whole world).

Then after He died He restored to me the breath of life or the Holy Spirit that was lost in Adam.

He did this so that not only would I go to Heaven when I physically die, but so that He can come from Heaven to me, whilst I live.

That the life He breathed into me is eternal from that moment on, and no one will EVER take that, Him from me.

That is the Messiah that I know. One that does not hold my sin against me, one that will finish the work in me that he started.
That He will do this in the midst of my life, my sin, my suffering, my joy, my sadness, my mistakes, my service.

That Messiah is love!

That Messiah is mercy!

That Messiah is gracious!

That Messiah now lives in me, and you and all that answer His call for eternity.

God is an awesome God, to be revered, to be honored and to be loved. Because He loved me first.
 
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