Is sin a rejection of Christ?

[gb9]

gb9 - a quick f.y.i. to tell people how they come across, what they appear to be saying,
the emotions they are expressing, how hearts can be addressed when in certain situations,
is speaking the truth.

The problem with feedback is often the person themselves is not listening to their own
words, or emotions, or key indicators of where their heart is.

So if someone says "I love Jesus, He is my everything, my Lord and Saviour" and then
ignore his words they are lying to themselves. It is like saying I read the instructions
to operate the television, but it will not switch on. Either it is broken or you did not
read the instructions.

What I find interesting is how people will say something, you repeat it back and they
say you are lying, when you use the same words. What they are saying is in their mind
the assumptions and meaning within the words are different than the ones the person
hearing it has, so its meaning changed. So both are probably speaking the truth, the words
mean different things to both parties. Now with a good heart, you can start to work this
through, but it depends on how much love and understanding is really there. For some
clearly not a great deal.

see, first paragraph, just redefine, excuse, and say " nothing to see here ". just excusing their sin, while constantly lecturing everyone else.

telling someone that you do not personally know what they believe and how they feel, or that they are emotionally damaged, all of which YOU do regularly, are lies, since you do not know these things.

it is called logical reasoning. try it sometimes.

 

[BillG]

I like this post. Talking about sin and Christ is not important.

I think nothing more needs to be said about the heart out which this sentiment came.

But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.
Matt 12:36

Yep and that is everyone. No one will be missed out.
Therfore let us all be careful and think before we speak,

Use the tongue to build up and not tare down.

 

[gb9]

I like this post. Talking about sin and Christ is not important.

I think nothing more needs to be said about the heart out which this sentiment came.

But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.
Matt 12:36

case in point- telling someone else what is in their hearts. big fat lie.

 

[PeterJens]

If we say we have no sin, we decieve ourselves.

If you would listen to John, You would stop being so self righteous. John spoke present tense and included himself in that statement, This was long after Christ departed..

This is what people who do not deal with their sin continually go to.

Sin is a symtom of lack of communion in Christ. It is obvious many have not
even taken sin seriously, they live in continual defeat and self condemnation.

How can they say they know Christ or follow after Him when clearly they do not
even address issues in their life which are sinful and wrong.

 

[gb9]

This is what people who do not deal with their sin continually go to.

Sin is a symtom of lack of communion in Christ. It is obvious many have not
even taken sin seriously, they live in continual defeat and self condemnation.

How can they say they know Christ or follow after Him when clearly they do not
even address issues in their life which are sinful and wrong.

last paragraph- good point.

now, stop lying - telling others what they think and believe. practice what you preach ( or in your case lecture ).

 

[PeterJens]

I like this post. Talking about sin and Christ is not important.

I think nothing more needs to be said about the heart out which this sentiment came.

But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.
Matt 12:36

case in point- telling someone else what is in their hearts. big fat lie.

Now if someone says talking about sin and Christ is not important, what is important
to them? Is Christ their Lord and Saviour and is sin something that leads people
to Hell?

Is there anything better than talking about Jesus?
Is sin our greatest problem, or symtom of a broken fellowship with God?

Only someone who does not know the answer to these questions would downplay
the discussion, which indicates they have some serious issues.

Yet my friend, for you gb9, this is a lie.

Ofcourse you are free to agree with who you like for whatever reason, it just
boggles my mind who you think you are following or believing in.

Judgment comes because of sin. Jesus died so that we through the cross might
have victory over this, yet this very point, you are in denial about.

If you do not have victory where is your salvation or hope, for no sinners enter
heaven?

 

[MattforJesus]

I like this post. Talking about sin and Christ is not important.

I think nothing more needs to be said about the heart out which this sentiment came.

But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.
Matt 12:36

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

It appears like there is not too many people that want to represent goodness,and hate sin,led by the Spirit,for if you observe society there are so many that love the things in the world.

It would appear that they would be happy if someone said do not sin,and act like Christ,for they should rejoice over it.

It appears that they would rather have us sinning,and acting worldly,than rejoicing that we hate sin,do not want to sin,want to represent goodness,and act like Christ.

What kind of Christian is that,that does not like people that state hate sin,do not sin,act like Christ,when Jesus represented goodness.

It is strange that there would be a war between people claiming Christ of hate sin,do not sin,act like Christ,and those that say we do not want to hear it.

Do not want to hear all the while following Jesus who hated sin,and represented goodness.

They claim Christ but they do not want to be like Him.

 

[PeterJens]

last paragraph- good point.

now, stop lying - telling others what they think and believe. practice what you preach ( or in your case lecture ).

My friend, I mean this most sincerely, you cannot tell the difference between truth
and a lie.

I know you respect EG, and g7 but it does not make them right.
I could be the most evil person in the world, everything I say wrong, yet you can only
judge it by the words I am saying.

This is why Jesus said loyalty matters less than the truth and God.
I have met some very nice people who turned out to be very different in reality.

We stand or fall on how we are before Jesus and in His gospel.

By calling me a liar while I speak the truth, is unfortunately lying and slander.
Now I do not mind for unbelievers, because it is part of their state of being
and natural, but for you who hold a good faith, you need to honestly ask are
you just being loyal to someone else or seeing the truth.

Now I do love you and know how easily people fall into sin in this way.
And if anything teaches me about your group of believers, sinning openly against
other believers is not a problem to you. It is more like a conversation with a
non-believer who has no moral and righteous concerns. Does grace cover your
behaviour, so killing me would not be a problem for you?

It feels like this from this end. And the justication, self condemnation from resolvable
sinful behaviour and continual self condemnation over issues you can do nothing about.

 

[gb9]

Now if someone says talking about sin and Christ is not important, what is important
to them? Is Christ their Lord and Saviour and is sin something that leads people
to Hell?

Is there anything better than talking about Jesus?
Is sin our greatest problem, or symtom of a broken fellowship with God?

Only someone who does not know the answer to these questions would downplay
the discussion, which indicates they have some serious issues.

Yet my friend, for you gb9, this is a lie.

Ofcourse you are free to agree with who you like for whatever reason, it just
boggles my mind who you think you are following or believing in.

Judgment comes because of sin. Jesus died so that we through the cross might
have victory over this, yet this very point, you are in denial about.

If you do not have victory where is your salvation or hope, for no sinners enter
heaven?

read this slowly- telling others whom you do not personally know what is in their heart or what they believe , which you DO NOT KNOW , is a lie. saying you know something you do not know is non-truth , therefore a lie.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

just a quick f.y.i. peter- when you tell others what they believe , or how they feel, or what is in their hearts, WHICH YOU DO NOT KNOW, this kind of makes you a liar.

It is part of his pride, He says it is his opinion and that's all so we can not call him out on it (again excusing his own sin)

He is aloud to slander all he wants, But we better not once try to tell him what he believes, or how dare we tell him he is wrong about out own belief..

Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is what people who do not deal with their sin continually go to.

Sin is a symtom of lack of communion in Christ. It is obvious many have not
even taken sin seriously, they live in continual defeat and self condemnation.

How can they say they know Christ or follow after Him when clearly they do not
even address issues in their life which are sinful and wrong.

Oh I deal with my sin, I have people here I trust who has the authority to call me out publiucally, or in email when I am in sin.

I have a discipler at church, whom I confess my sin to, and once a week we get together for 2 to three hours discipling each other

I have a wife who knows she can speak into my life

as a home church leader. I have God who holds me accountable.. And I know and have felt his chastening (I also have been under attack from satan because of the same reason)

How can you say we clearly do not address sin issues when you clearly do not know us?

Just more slander more sin more judgment,,

Repent peter. Stop calling everyone out for their sin which you do not even know. when you will not even repent of your own sin!

 

[BillG]

My friend, I mean this most sincerely, you cannot tell the difference between truth
and a lie.

I know you respect EG, and g7 but it does not make them right.
I could be the most evil person in the world, everything I say wrong, yet you can only
judge it by the words I am saying.

This is why Jesus said loyalty matters less than the truth and God.
I have met some very nice people who turned out to be very different in reality.

We stand or fall on how we are before Jesus and in His gospel.

By calling me a liar while I speak the truth, is unfortunately lying and slander.
Now I do not mind for unbelievers, because it is part of their state of being
and natural, but for you who hold a good faith, you need to honestly ask are
you just being loyal to someone else or seeing the truth.

Now I do love you and know how easily people fall into sin in this way.
And if anything teaches me about your group of believers, sinning openly against
other believers is not a problem to you. It is more like a conversation with a
non-believer who has no moral and righteous concerns. Does grace cover your
behaviour, so killing me would not be a problem for you?

It feels like this from this end. And the justication, self condemnation from resolvable
sinful behaviour and continual self condemnation over issues you can do nothing about.

PJ

You seem to be accusing gb9 exactly the for same thing as you accuse him of accusing you.

Difference is that you are subtle.

And if anything teaches me about your group of believers, sinning openly against
other believers is not a problem to you. It is more like a conversation with a
non-believer who has no moral and righteous concerns. Does grace cover your
behaviour, so killing me would not be a problem for you?

Why do you insist that your group of believers, sin openly against other beleivers and it's not a problem for them.
You also imply in other posts that they think it's ok to sin.

Why?

 

[PeterJens]

read this slowly- telling others whom you do not personally know what is in their heart or what they believe , which you DO NOT KNOW , is a lie. saying you know something you do not know is non-truth , therefore a lie.

gb9 - The problem with faith is it is really simple. If I defend an adulterer for their sin
I am not saying it is sinful behaviour.

Such a person does not know God or Christ. I do not have to know more than this.

But obviously you do not know the meaning of righeousness and truth.
My words are harsh because this is what scripture declares.

If you break Gods commandments one is in rebellion against Him. If one does not
seek remedy there is no resolution.

Proverbs says this

Whoever remains stiff-necked after many rebukes will suddenly be destroyed—without remedy.
Prov 29:1

A lot of people who claim to be following Christ yet stay in sin, will find when judgment
falls it will be too late, their hearts have hardened and nothing will solve the problem.

Christ died that we might walk in the light, be the light, salt in a compromised world.

If people claim to be salt yet are totally compromised, they will be trampled under foot.

We cannot compromise with sin, it is our walk, it is the nature of the Kingdom.

 

[PeterJens]

Why do you insist that your group of believers, sin openly against other beleivers and it's not a problem for them.
You also imply in other posts that they think it's ok to sin.
Why?

Bill, I am making an important point.

Sin is not our way, in any place or in any fashion.
I have noticed some feel it is their duty to disparage others without any regard.

And the danger of calling something a lie, when it is an opinion or a viewpoint is
this is just commiting sin oneself. You could ofcourse carry on such ideas infinitely.

I just wonder why people do not see, sin is our enemy, the thing that binds us, that
Paul struggled with as a pharisee and found freedom in Christ through to walk righteously.

The more I read of Paul the clearer his position is. He was one holy, pure, clean guy.
He downplayed his state and his passion but it was clear, resolve sinful behaviour and
walk in love.

And the sinful issues people are actually defending as totally defeating are just excuses.
The true difficult things are deep hurts within families, within marriages, within work.
Often one individual is beyond forgiveness or love, and it is this they are really hiding from.
Everything else is a smoke screen. It is also why often these conversations are not actually
productive because the real issue is never going to be addressed.

And those who hate our position believe we represent the cause of the failure of the church
even though this makes no sense, this is their daily mission to discourage and fight the fight
against the evil legalists.

The problem is it will eat away their soul, rather than in Christ it helps me grow deeper in His
love and grace, power and victory over sin and death.

So rejoice in Christ, take on the issues of our hearts and bring all to Christ, no matter how
traumatic and difficult, for in Him we have the victory, Amen. The first step for anyone is
to admit the need, and second is to seek someone to share it with.

 

[BillG]

Bill, I am making an important point.

Sin is not our way, in any place or in any fashion.
I have noticed some feel it is their duty to disparage others without any regard.

And the danger of calling something a lie, when it is an opinion or a viewpoint is
this is just commiting sin oneself. You could ofcourse carry on such ideas infinitely.

I just wonder why people do not see, sin is our enemy, the thing that binds us, that
Paul struggled with as a pharisee and found freedom in Christ through to walk righteously.

The more I read of Paul the clearer his position is. He was one holy, pure, clean guy.
He downplayed his state and his passion but it was clear, resolve sinful behaviour and
walk in love.

And the sinful issues people are actually defending as totally defeating are just excuses.
The true difficult things are deep hurts within families, within marriages, within work.
Often one individual is beyond forgiveness or love, and it is this they are really hiding from.
Everything else is a smoke screen. It is also why often these conversations are not actually
productive because the real issue is never going to be addressed.

And those who hate our position believe we represent the cause of the failure of the church
even though this makes no sense, this is their daily mission to discourage and fight the fight
against the evil legalists.

The problem is it will eat away their soul, rather than in Christ it helps me grow deeper in His
love and grace, power and victory over sin and death.

So rejoice in Christ, take on the issues of our hearts and bring all to Christ, no matter how
traumatic and difficult, for in Him we have the victory, Amen. The first step for anyone is
to admit the need, and second is to seek someone to share it with.

But you come accross as saying because we see sin as a reality (which it is) you seem to say, that they then think it's ok to sin and do not want to walk righteously.

Now if I am wrong here then please whoever it be let me know.

Just so you know

Often one individual is beyond forgiveness or love, and it is this they are really hiding from.

I do not believe anyone is beyond forgiveness or love.

 

[PeterJens]

Oh I deal with my sin, I have people here I trust who has the authority to call me out publiucally, or in email when I am in sin.

I have a discipler at church, whom I confess my sin to, and once a week we get together for 2 to three hours discipling each other

I have a wife who knows she can speak into my life

as a home church leader. I have God who holds me accountable.. And I know and have felt his chastening (I also have been under attack from satan because of the same reason)

How can you say we clearly do not address sin issues when you clearly do not know us?

Just more slander more sin more judgment,,

Repent peter. Stop calling everyone out for their sin which you do not even know. when you will not even repent of your own sin!

Praise the Lord you are addressing your sin issues.

But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:57

And I have repented and walk in communion with Christ.
I am not condemning anyone,

 

[BillG]

Praise the Lord you are addressing your sin issues.

But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:57

And I have repented and walk in communion with Christ.
I am not condemning anyone,

And you have hit the nail on the head.

HE GIVES US THE VICTORY

It is he who gets the glory and not us.
It is Jesus who gets the glory for it is he who gives us the strength and the victory.

Thats worth rejoicing in.

 

[Grace777x70]

I'm actually offended by self righteous gas bags. But I get over it pretty quickly.

Part of the original sin with Eve and Adam was about seeking goodness from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They wanted to be like God without God. This is what all workers for salvation and works-righteousness belief systems have in common.

It has a "noble" looking shell but in reality it denies the work of grace that God in Christ has already provided so they are trying to establish their own righteousness while in reality they are in complete unbelief in the gospel of the grace of Christ - for in "it" - the gospel - the righteousness of God is revealed.

They are well-intentioned but are eating from the wrong tree. These false belief systems are actually the very ones living by this world's system of believing - according to the elemental principles of the world brought in by the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil of which the Law of Moses is a representation of it.

These works-righteousness belief mindsets can go to church all their life, pray 5 hours a day, read the scriptures for 5 hours a day and they are in reality still living in the world's system of belief. It's a major deception from the enemy. The devil is a very religious being and he desperately wants us to be religious too because it nullifies the very grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to do.

 

[PennEd]

wow, great post!!

Amen, so much for the oopsies, or the "I did not mean it" or the "it was an accident" or the "well I had good reason" or whatever excuse they make to hide their own sin, and call it meaningless.

Thank you for your kind words brother!

 

[Grace777x70]

read this slowly- telling others whom you do not personally know what is in their heart or what they believe , which you DO NOT KNOW , is a lie. saying you know something you do not know is non-truth , therefore a lie.

And because the sky is blue...

Unfortunately to interact with this type of a mindset is a complete waste of time - knowing that things will be twisted and accusations and outright lies which have been proved false over a 100 times will continue to be done. There is no good to be had from interacting with this kind of a mindset.

I can fully understand mis-understandings as it's very common in this type of environment but to constantly and blatantly lie and slander others is a total different thing.

We can post the scriptures to show what we believe about the love and grace of God in Christ and leave it in the hands of the Lord.

Just bless them and leave them in the hands of the Lord but avoid them. The Holy Spirit will let us know when it's safe to interact with them again. He will be faithful to all of us.