Calvinists,Im Asking...

[Depleted]

It was flat out aggressive, rude and very necessary.

If you value "friendship" more than Truth, you aren't truly following Jesus.

And yeah that's a rebuke and I would talk to my father that way.

As I state over and over again. The manner in which you strive to teach, matters.

I don't seem to teach anyone anything. I seek to remind them what I hope God has told them in the Bible: the difference between heavenly wisdom and earthly wisdom.

If you want to teach you speak with love and impartiality, otherwise it's just clanging cymbals.

All you "friend" is is clanging cymbals when he starts getting angry or thinks someone disagrees with him. Even when they are just asking for clarification he attacks.

You jump to his defense with "its the logical conclusion"

It's not.

Why does it have to be the mods fault, your hero doesn't know how to tame his tongue?

If you want to continue this fight, I am sure you can find me on another thread.

Fyi...this isn't what happened:



He had an Osteen burning thread. Mine was to research Kenneth Hagin and find out what one of the people who posted on his thread believed. Turns out he thinks Osteen is a false prophet too. No one could hear over p4t telling everyone,they were evil herectics and wolves attacking his "ministry"

You friend needs help. Will you give it to Him or let him wander into depravity?

All that is you justifying your actions and judging Preach's actions. What's the difference? Isn't that exactly what he does to you?

The only difference in he wraps his up on "ministry" and you wrap yours up with caring about his soul.

(Does anyone even remember this was about what do Calvinist believe anymore?)

 

[Depleted]

He's not a false prophet. False profit? Absolutely. False prophet? Not so much...

Disagreeing. He makes a very real profit. lol

 

[phil36]

Well, I haven't been on much in the last few weeks.... and I don't think I'll troll through 55 pages either lol. I'm a Calvinist if that's the term people want to use. I believe the doctrines of Grace set out what the bible says regarding the Gospel. To me, it's very plainly - doctrines of Grace = The Gospel.

I also believe that God deals with his people through covenant relationships.

 

[preacher4truth]

Well, I haven't been on much in the last few weeks.... and I don't think I'll troll through 55 pages either lol. I'm a Calvinist if that's the term people want to use. I believe the doctrines of Grace set out what the bible says regarding the Gospel. To me, it's very plainly - doctrines of Grace = The Gospel.

I also believe that God deals with his people through covenant relationships.

How dare you stand for truth!

 

[phil36]

How dare you stand for truth!

I'm just waiting for the backlash now...lol

 

[preacher4truth]

I'm just waiting for the backlash now...lol

Well, we've been blasted for "recruiting others" on CC, for attacking heresy (we've been called "heresy hunters" and "witch hunters") and have been ridiculed for sharing better Biblical interpretation that goes against false traditions and poor hermeneutics.

Then, to top that off, a thread was started to warn others of what a cult looks like.

Still following along? Check this out:

Interestingly enough the same person who called us some of the things above made sure to bold portions of the post about what a cultist looks like. And guess what? The bold part goes right along with what we have been accused of here in this thread. Feel free to take a gander

Now, ain't that something? I never knew that made me a cultist!

 

[phil36]

Well, we've been blasted for "recruiting others" on CC, for attacking heresy (we've been called "heresy hunters" and "witch hunters") and have been ridiculed for sharing better Biblical interpretation that goes against false traditions and poor hermeneutics.

Then, to top that off, a thread was started to warn others of what a cult looks like.

Still following along? Check this out:

Interestingly enough the same person who called us some of the things above made sure to bold portions of the post about what a cultist looks like. And guess what? The bold part goes right along with what we have been accused of here in this thread. Feel free to take a gander

Now, ain't that something? I never knew that made me a cultist!

Well, Ive been told Calvinism is heresy before, yet what they say they think Calvinism is, is not the Calvinism you will read or hear from the Reformed.

 

[Depleted]

Well, I haven't been on much in the last few weeks.... and I don't think I'll troll through 55 pages either lol. I'm a Calvinist if that's the term people want to use. I believe the doctrines of Grace set out what the bible says regarding the Gospel. To me, it's very plainly - doctrines of Grace = The Gospel.

I also believe that God deals with his people through covenant relationships.

Kind of like waiting for the chocolate cake with chocolate frosting at the end of a seven-course meal and then only eating the frosting anyway. lol

 

[preacher4truth]

Well, Ive been told Calvinism is heresy before, yet what they say they think Calvinism is, is not the Calvinism you will read or hear from the Reformed.

Yes, they say that in ignorance of Calvinism.

 

[ForthAngel]

Well, Ive been told Calvinism is heresy before, yet what they say they think Calvinism is, is not the Calvinism you will read or hear from the Reformed.

This has been the issue the whole time. Misrepresentation of what we actually believe. This thread was supposed to clear that up, but this is CC after all.

 

[kaylagrl]

Well, Ive been told Calvinism is heresy before, yet what they say they think Calvinism is, is not the Calvinism you will read or hear from the Reformed.

I dont think you want to back Calvin,most here dont. He had a nasty bent.

 

[Johnny_B]

Yes, but I took the time to figure out what previelent grace was (even if I can't remember how to spell it. lol) I don't agree with it, but at least I took the time to figure out what she believes about that.

52 pages later, and she's back at "Why would you evangelize if only the elect are saved?"

II Timothy 3:7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

Why do people think that the elect just automatically become saved without hearing the Gospel of truth. They do not want to know, they just want to babble about doctrine. It's the Word of God, not a philosophy.

It really bothers me when the immature remarks start coming out, to try an up-set those that believe in what the Bible says about election, how it's not selection, how it's by His foreknowledge, not by His acknowledgement. Which is the true brake down of what they are saying. They do not realize that they are promoting man over God in salvation and then want to defend that. I remember those days, when I was an apologist for that very doctrine/idea. Do they fit verse 8 of II Timothy 3?

"8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith." I don't know and I don't want to say they are because I don't know them or their heart, it's just something for them to think about. Whenever a doctrine promotes man over God we need to re-think it to see if it is Biblical or not, if it's not we need to repent, even if we don't understand it.

God gets the glory not man, in all things. Again I am not saying that those that does understand unconditional election fit II Timothy 3:8, I am only asking and would ask them to examine themselves to see if indeed they are following the truth. God has always been a God of election, form Genesis on. He chose Eve to carry the Seed or the Messiah Genesis 3:15. Why did He elect Jacob, "in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls" and it keeps continuing today, actually it's already all done, we are just seeing it's results today.

 

[Ariel82]

I dont think you want to back Calvin,most here dont. He had a nasty bent.

Only his prejudices against the Jews. Besides that most seem to agree with his doctrines, but prefer the name reformed.

 

[kaylagrl]

Only his prejudices against the Jews. Besides that most seem to agree with his doctrines, but prefer the name reformed.

No,more than his prejudice against the Jews. But I dont want to derail into that.

 

[Johnny_B]

Well, Ive been told Calvinism is heresy before, yet what they say they think Calvinism is, is not the Calvinism you will read or hear from the Reformed.

Yes, they say that in ignorance of Calvinism.

This has been the issue the whole time. Misrepresentation of what we actually believe. This thread was supposed to clear that up, but this is CC after all.

That's the problem is no one really wants to know what it is Biblically, they are fine what what people that disagree with it say, when it not the truth, it's their twisted idea of what it is.

There are many things that I disagree with Calvin on that's why I do not consider myself a Calvinist or Reformed for the same reason. But because I believe in the Biblical doctrine of election, no double predestination, they want to place me into that camp so I can be neatly categorized in their book. I believe in the gift of the Spirit for today so people want to make me Pentecostal, but I don't agree with all that they believe either. The Bible is the final authority.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I dont think you want to back Calvin,most here dont. He had a nasty bent.

And you know this how?

I ask this in sincerity and not in malice. I ask that because, in reality, none of us were alive when all that with Servetus went down. Both sides of the pro-Calvin v. anti-Calvin have 'proof' of what he did, or didn't do. I am in the camp where he has went to wait to receive his reward, and his eternal fate is sealed.

 

[phil36]

I dont think you want to back Calvin,most here dont. He had a nasty bent.

Hi Kaylagrl,

I have read quite a lot about Calvin and other reformers (and not all written by reformed!! (it's good to read the sources of opposing views!)). And like all men none were perfect and the very same men would tell you so.

But I am quite sure that you do not think that the reformed follow Calvin the man? Rather than Jesus the God-man!

 

[PeterJens]

Is it possible to believe we are chosen yet could fall away?

Jesus said to His disciples, I chose you, you did not chose me.
Paul said we where predestined before time to become the elect.

Maybe it is impossible for the elect to fall, because God makes it so.
But the elect show it is impossible by not falling, not by their belief it
is impossible to fall.

I suspect the point God is saying is He will not abandon us, no matter
who the enemy are or what they throw at you. But this is not an excuse to
use this idea as a license to sin or believe being chosen makes you free to
deny your own nature in Christ.

I would argue sinning with no conviction of sin demonstrates you are not chosen
at all, because your heart does not rise in revulsion at the sin one is commiting,
and the name of Christ one is blaspheming.

Living within the constraints God has given us is difficult. It is a lifelong walk.

 

[kaylagrl]

And you know this how?

I ask this in sincerity and not in malice. I ask that because, in reality, none of us were alive when all that with Servetus went down. Both sides of the pro-Calvin v. anti-Calvin have 'proof' of what he did, or didn't do. I am in the camp where he has went to wait to receive his reward, and his eternal fate is sealed.

Well its not just that situation either. But of course none of us were alive at different times in history,that does not mean the incident did not happen.There is no doubt Servetus was wrong in his belief regarding the Trinity. And there is no doubt how Calvin felt about him. Though Calvin didn't directly have him put to death his comment on Servetus was,


"“But I am unwilling to pledge my word for his safety, for if he shall come [to Geneva], I shall never permit him to depart alive, provided my authority be of any avail.”

“I hope that the verdict will call for the death penalty.”


After the execution Calvin said,


“Servetus suffered the penalty due his heresies, but was it by my will. Certainly his arrogance destroyed him not less than his impiety.”

It was not wise to oppose Calvin and Servetus wasn't the only one to find this out the hard way.

 

[kaylagrl]

Hi Kaylagrl,

I have read quite a lot about Calvin and other reformers (and not all written by reformed!! (it's good to read the sources of opposing views!)). And like all men none were perfect and the very same men would tell you so.

But I am quite sure that you do not think that the reformed follow Calvin the man? Rather than Jesus the God-man!

None of us is perfect this side of heaven. Thats certain.But Calvin was severe to say the least.Just reading his comments and how he treated people that opposed him should raise concern. I notice that several have either said they disagree with or have not read Calvins writings.His comments on the Jews alone to me are indefensible.