The Rapture

[Issachar92]

The mark covered the roman world. and the flying scorpions are symbolic of demon power

See there you go again, whether its Ezekiel 34 talking about Israel dwelling safely in the forests and wilderness, David being a prince to Israel, ending evil beasts from the land and making a covenant of peace or wolf laying down with the lamb in isaiah 11 etc etc et. SO MANY EXAMPLES in ezekiel and isaiah and the rev 20 account AND the promise to Abraham that he will get the land.

Its just symbolic of this and that and nobody can figure out what it means unless we ask the expert interpretors.
There is just no reason to interpret everything in the OT symbolically.
Even in the new testament Jesus says: Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the _EARTH_

 

[RickyZ]

No longer being one to beat dead horses, I'll leave with this thought:

There are many here who are in for some big, HUGE surprises in the future.

And seriously, pw, give some thought to that MRV.

 

[VCO]

Revelation 13:1 (YLT)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I stood upon the sand of the sea,
and I saw out of the sea a beast coming up,
having seven heads and ten horns,
and upon its horns ten diadems,
and upon its heads a name of evil speaking,


Here is why I think we HAVE TO add the G-7 Group of Nations to the possible identification of the Prophesied BEAST of Revelation. The G-7 comes from Nations that have borders along a large number of SEAS from all over the world: East China Sea, Sea of Japan, Sea of Okhotsk, Pacific Ocean, Bering Sea, Beauford Sea, Artic Ocean, Labrador Sea, Atlantic Ocean, Carribean Sea, Mediterrainian Sea, (four smaller Seas surrounding Italy), Norwegian Sea, North Sea, and the Baltic Sea. Therefore by Describing the GROUP OF SEVEN NATIONS (G-7), as a Beast coming out of the Sea, that may be very descriptively accurate. It could also refer to coming out of the SEA OF HUMANITY, from all over the World.

What is the 'Group Of Seven - G-7'

The Group of Seven (G-7) is a forum of the world's seven most industrialized economies. The G-6 was formed in 1975 and consisted of France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United States and the United Kingdom; Canada was invited to join the group in 1976. G-7 officials meet to discuss international economic and monetary issues.


Role of G-7

The G-7's major role is to discuss and work through world issues. The seven nations represent around 50% of the global economy. Through the years, the G-7 has been vocal about preventing the overall global economy from entering a recession.


The group has discussed financial crises, monetary systems and major world crises, such as oil shortages. Finance ministers from the membership countries often meet annually or more frequently to work to improve the economies of member countries and the world.

Group Of Seven (G-7)

So what could it mean by "upon its heads a name of evil speaking"?

Perhaps that can be explained with one word: GREED.

 

[PlainWord]

No longer being one to beat dead horses, I'll leave with this thought:

There are many here who are in for some big, HUGE surprises in the future.

And seriously, pw, give some thought to that MRV.

If we are, it isn't in the Bible. Have a good time out there RickyZ and be sure to keep your head down and watch out for low flying mountains on fire.

 

[PlainWord]

Revelation 13:1 (YLT)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I stood upon the sand of the sea,
and I saw out of the sea a beast coming up,
having seven heads and ten horns,
and upon its horns ten diadems,
and upon its heads a name of evil speaking,


Here is why I think we HAVE TO add the G-7 Group of Nations to the possible identification of the Prophesied BEAST of Revelation. The G-7 comes from Nations that have borders along a large number of SEAS from all over the world: East China Sea, Sea of Japan, Sea of Okhotsk, Pacific Ocean, Bering Sea, Beauford Sea, Artic Ocean, Labrador Sea, Atlantic Ocean, Carribean Sea, Mediterrainian Sea, (four smaller Seas surrounding Italy), Norwegian Sea, North Sea, and the Baltic Sea. Therefore by Describing the GROUP OF SEVEN NATIONS (G-7), as a Beast coming out of the Sea, that may be very descriptively accurate. It could also refer to coming out of the SEA OF HUMANITY, from all over the World.





So what could it mean by "upon its heads a name of evil speaking"?

Perhaps that can be explained with one word: GREED.

It isn't about the proximity to "seas." The symbolism of "sea" comes from Isa 17:

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Woe to the multitude of many people Who make a noise like the roar of the seas, And to the rushing of nations That make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters! [SUP]13 [/SUP]The nations will rush like the rushing of many waters; But God will rebuke them and they will flee far away, And be chased like the chaff of the mountains before the wind, Like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.

Jude uses the same figurative language:

They are clouds without water, carried about[SUP][/SUP] by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; [SUP]13 [/SUP]raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

 

[VCO]

MORE ON THE G-7 Summit Meetings:

This Year the G-7 Summit Meeting was held in Catania, Sicily (Italy):

NOTICE: This year E.U.'s Comission President, and E.U.'s Council President were invited to attend even tho they are not Official members. THUS you have an E.U. Flag on each end.

The Location of the G-7 Summit rotates from Country to Country in various cities, therefore it is only a matter of time before the G-7 Summit meets in ROME.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

The mark covered the roman world. and the flying scorpions are symbolic of demon power

See there you go again, whether its Ezekiel 34 talking about Israel dwelling safely in the forests and wilderness, David being a prince to Israel, ending evil beasts from the land and making a covenant of peace or wolf laying down with the lamb in isaiah 11 etc etc et. SO MANY EXAMPLES in ezekiel and isaiah and the rev 20 account AND the promise to Abraham that he will get the land.

Its just symbolic of this and that and nobody can figure out what it means unless we ask the expert interpretors.
There is just no reason to interpret everything in the OT symbolically.
Even in the new testament Jesus says: Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the _EARTH_

I didn't mention the Old Testament lol I was talking about Revelation which is said to be symbolic. So you accuse me falsely. But it goes on all the time here so whats new.?

As for the Old Testament, much of its prophecy was fulfilled in the Old Testament days. It is you who seek to make everything future that misrepresent the OT.

 

[Issachar92]

I didn't mention the Old Testament lol I was talking about Revelation which is said to be symbolic. So you accuse me falsely. But it goes on all the time here so whats new.?

As for the Old Testament, much of its prophecy was fulfilled in the Old Testament days. It is you who seek to make everything future that misrepresent the OT.

Ok, then when were evil beasts ended from the land, wolf laying down with the lamb?
When did this occur? IF these things have happened in the past, everyone would be amill

 

[abcdef]

Ok, then when were evil beasts ended from the land, wolf laying down with the lamb?
When did this occur? IF these things have happened in the past, everyone would be amill

The animals have the Holy Spirit, symbolic of the church/kingdom.

The lion has the spirit of the lamb, the serpent no longer is a threat, once he has the spirit.

The people who were once enemies of God's people, now have the spirit of peace.

This will never literally happen.

 

[Issachar92]

The animals have the Holy Spirit, symbolic of the church/kingdom.

The lion has the spirit of the lamb, the serpent no longer is a threat, once he has the spirit.

The people who were once enemies of God's people, now have the spirit of peace.

This will never literally happen.

Wow. You just said "This scripture doesnt fit my theology, let me sweep it under the rug by making up symbolism as i go along"
I rate this H for "Hogwash"

 

[PlainWord]

Ok, then when were evil beasts ended from the land, wolf laying down with the lamb?
When did this occur? IF these things have happened in the past, everyone would be amill

Isaiah 65:17 and on is the eternal state and is future to us. Zech 14 is a companion passage.

 

[abcdef]

I gave you a link to 37 hours of sermons by Dr. John MacArthur, Jr., which is an intense verse by verse study of Revelation. It is on the gty.org site. Plus he certainly has an equally good series on the book of Daniel. They an audio series of his sermons, that you can listen to, if you really want to know what we absolutely believe and understand via the teaching of the Holy Spirit. As for answering your Twilight Zone FALSE THEOLOGY, I have better things to do with my time than to try to exlain it to someone who will not listen and cannot understand because he does not have the Holy Spirit in him/or/her teaching and giving understanding. You need to be born again first.

One last point, the false religion of the Original Roman Empire was not a Christian Religious leader being bowed to, IT was emperor worship, AND HE WAS NOT A CHRISTIAN LEADER. NATO and the EU headquarters are in Brussles, they the G7 Nations are the best possible fits for Beast rising out of the sea, not the Pope.

The beast rose out of the sea of the gentile nations long ago.

Again you deny that Rome is the iron legs of the present time.

The iron legs, the 4th beast rose when the Roman Empire came to power.

The rising out of the sea has already taken place.

----

The toes lose power and end.

The horns slim to a point and end.

They lose power over Israel, it does not increase.

---

You are looking for prophecy to be fulfilled, that was fulfilled long ago.

The toes have ended.

The horns have ended.

The stone is about to strike.

-----

You say that I am following some prophet, but then when I ask a question, you say, "Read what the prophet I am following has to say."

I've read many commentaries, yours is just another one. Some truth, but not quite right.

You can't answer the questions by yourself?

Who is the iron legs 500 years ago?

Who is the iron legs right now?

The toes/horns don't show them being united, but divided, with clay also.

Rome was divided east and west, and the 10 toes started in 476 ad, the number 10 is symbolic of complete division.

The toes/horns do not reunite.

You are skipping over 1900 years of history, the tribulation of Israel, attacked by the beast of Rome.

You MUST skip this, leave a gap in your theory, to make it work.

Pre trib is in a state of denial over the destruction of Jerusalem, and the following time period.

 

[abcdef]

Wow. You just said "This scripture doesnt fit my theology, let me sweep it under the rug by making up symbolism as i go along"
I rate this H for "Hogwash"

Think about it.

 

[PlainWord]

Nero reigned from 54 to 68 AD and was the last of the Julio-Claudian emperors. If you are speaking of Rome having authority for 42 months, that doesn't fit either.

a-f, I like most of what you say. The legs were the Western Roman and Eastern Roman Empires. The toes were the dominant countries from each leg. But, the statue of Dan 2 and the Beast of the Sea from Rev 13 are not the same thing. Related, but not the same.

 

[Bladerunner]

Wow. You just said "This scripture doesnt fit my theology, let me sweep it under the rug by making up symbolism as i go along"
I rate this H for "Hogwash"

You said mouthfull!....This is what he and a few others do.

 

[Merc]

Heavy subject !
Look at this from the natural realm.
Before a country declares war on another what happens first?
You remove all your people or ambassadors then you close your embassies.
I find this is a good example of the rapture.

 

[tanakh]

I didn't mention the Old Testament lol I was talking about Revelation which is said to be symbolic. So you accuse me falsely. But it goes on all the time here so whats new.?

As for the Old Testament, much of its prophecy was fulfilled in the Old Testament days. It is you who seek to make everything future that misrepresent the OT.

Revelation cannot be understood without the OT. The visions are directly related to it and many ARE symbolic. The plagues relate to those that struck Egypt Babylon the great relates to Babylon. For Locusts and Scorpions check out Exodus and Joel Diferent coloured horses are found in Zechariah. Much of the visions concerning Heaven are found in the description of the tabernacle in Exodus the list is endless. God intended John and us to understand Revelation and he used the OT to do it nothing else including our often wild imaginations.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Revelation cannot be understood without the OT. The visions are directly related to it and many ARE symbolic. The plagues relate to those that struck Egypt Babylon the great relates to Babylon. For Locusts and Scorpions check out Exodus and Joel Diferent coloured horses are found in Zechariah. Much of the visions concerning Heaven are found in the description of the tabernacle in Exodus the list is endless. God intended John and us to understand Revelation and he used the OT to do it nothing else including our often wild imaginations.

Really? I can read Revelation and understand it without consulting the OT. I don't have to understand the plagues of wrath in order to understand what the seals trumpets and bowl judgments are and their results. The horses in Zechariah don't add anything to understanding the first four seals. There is also an extra horse in there, that is not in Revelation. We don't even know if those in Zechariah are synonymous with those in Revelation.

As I continue to point out, the word "Apokalupsis" translated "Revelation" is defined as the revealing of events that were previously covered, hidden. The book of Revelation can be understood on its own, for it is a self contained book. If you don't believe me, ask me a question about anything in the book of Revelation and I will give you the answer from the same book.

This teaching that the majority of Revelation as being symbolic is why many misinterpret the book. If you would read it at face value and apply symbolism only where it is obvious or required, then you will begin to understand the book.

 

[valiant]

Ok, then when were evil beasts ended from the land, wolf laying down with the lamb?
When did this occur? IF these things have happened in the past, everyone would be amill

That is the final consummation in the new earth. No need for a false and failing 1000 years.

 

[valiant]

Revelation cannot be understood without the OT. The visions are directly related to it and many ARE symbolic. The plagues relate to those that struck Egypt Babylon the great relates to Babylon. For Locusts and Scorpions check out Exodus and Joel Diferent coloured horses are found in Zechariah. Much of the visions concerning Heaven are found in the description of the tabernacle in Exodus the list is endless. God intended John and us to understand Revelation and he used the OT to do it nothing else including our often wild imaginations.

I agree that many of the ideas in Revelation are obtained from the Old Testament. One of the good points in Bullinger's commentary on Revelation was that it drew attention to this.