Antinomianism: Legalism's Red Herring

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
33
#1
The accusation of Antinomianism is itself a red herring to avoid the fact that what we are, are new creations. It is a rather... useless allegation because it is almost always found to be false. Whom do you know that professes that we should live like heathen and be saved? Whom do you know professes a license to sin, and does so? Where do you find antinomianism in the Church? It surely is not in reference to those encouraging others to understand God's grace, for do they not encourage others as the Apostle Paul, to reckon themselves dead to sin and alive unto God?

I call a red herring. A rotting putrid red herring, an old excuse to dismiss that we no longer serve in the oldness of the letter but the newness of the spirit. Legalism's last stand is to defame their opposition, to put doubt in the reader's mind so as to veil the truth of sin's dominion being removed not under the law, but under grace.

Antinomianism, giving the benefit of the doubt, is sourced, at least in today's society, from a misunderstanding of God's grace, and how being under it, we are freed from sin's dominion. It is a term thrown to defame others while ignoring clarity. It is, again, a red herring. It is to dismiss the conversation, to stay in tradition, and to not grow in revelation and rather stay in chains. What chains? That of Legalism. A call to righteousness that is not sourced from God, but hypocrisy and self aggrandizement.

You see, no matter the truth that is presented in how we serve in the newness of the spirit and not the oldness of the letter, people still cling to their morality. There is something inside of them, something not of faith, that attempts to feel comfortable within one's own self. To feel sure, and secure knowing that they are in the right place. Not so wrong in that of wanting to be in a righteous place, but that comfort is only needed when one believes that there is condemnation in Christ where their foundation is not the Lord (the Author and Finisher of their faith) but their maintenance of salvation.

Do you see it? Antinomianism the idea that one is against the law (rules, regulations, or in this case Moses' Law) is truly moot, because no one is professing it. Sure, they uphold justification by faith, in Christ alone, but not to the degree that they deny the changing power of God's grace. Not unto salvation, in that of goodness, and in daily living, and holiness. Their righteousness comes about through being born-again, made a new creation, renewing the mind to who they are in Him, and above all these truths, the sanctification of God. He changes us, He gets the glory. Look at our baptism symbolically and you see that we are dead to sin and alive unto God.

The red herring, old and rotting, is useless. It is Legalism's last defense to change the conversation so that their self-righteousness is not exposed and they may continue in their hypocrisy at the cost of other's peace. They lay a burden on others that they themselves do not keep, though they profess to. Antinomianism is not the grace that is espoused, for it would not be God's grace. No, the grace often preached on this site by proponents of the Lord's process by which we may be set free from sin, is only of an abounding grace. One that forgives and sets free, one that cost Christ His life on the cross but beautifully His resurrection onto our justification. The echo here is as the Apostle Paul states, shall we sin so that grace may abound? God forbid!

We are dead to sin. New creations. We serve in the newness of the spirit and not the oldness of the letter. Died with Christ, and so risen. The Lord sanctifies us, and chastises us, building character. The allegation of Antinomianism is rather an ignorant one, for it reveals the ignorance of the one stating it. I don't know if it is willful ignorance as I said so as to be a red herring, but it is one that is pointless, and unfounded given but a minute of study. We are no longer slaves to sin, but servants of righteousness.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#2
Amen Ben!


People often say to those that speak of the grace of God and that they are not under the law of Moses including the 10 commandments anymore that they believe they are without "laws" now. They are accused of being "antinomian".

We do have laws in the New Covenant.

They are exciting laws that bring life and wholeness to us all - because these are all Christ Himself in us.
Jesus fulfilled the law. The law was a mere shadow of the real thing which was Jesus.

Read the law to see Jesus in it and to know that Jesus did that for us and His life in us now leads us in all things. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.

We now live by:

1) The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. ( Romans 8:2 )

2) The law of love( Romans 13:10 James 2:8 )

3) The law of faith ( Romans 3:27 and the law of Moses is NOT of faith - Gal. 3:12 )

4) The law of liberty in Christ Jesus ( James 1:25 )

5) The law of Christ - which is Christ Himself in us. ( Gal. 6:2 )

We can trust the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ Himself in us to lead us in all affairs of life. We don't go back to the law of Moses that were a shadow of the real thing which is Christ in us..
Jesus is more then enough.

Yes...we glory in the laws that we have in the New Covenant because they are all Christ Himself living in and through us. ( Gal.2:20 and Col. 3:3 )

Get this wrong and we create a religion which really nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.


Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

[SUP]23 [/SUP]
gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#3
Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

Devine service.. moral laws

World santuray...Cerimoinial laws

Distinguishing between the things of God and those of men must be made. It is there that the father of lies attempts to get his foot in the door.

I would offer the difference between the two covenants is the first covenant had moral law that will go to the end of time of time and a worldly or carnal service in respect to shadows or a visible temple, as a ceremonial law
.
The shadows of things to come which were used to preach the gospel in respect to the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory. The demonstration had come to an end, signaled by the renting of the veil. The time of reformation was here, the previous order was restored to a time period before a "worldly sanctuary" was used.

Everything in the sanctuary as that seen was used as a parable to represent the unseen in respect to Christ coming in the flesh

One of the difficulties I would offer is how men view the use of a outward Jew in a sanctuary setting. Many teach the Holy Spirit was not in the Old Testament saints and not aviaible until Acts or Pentecost. This destroyed the faith of Christ that did work in the the old testament saints in the same was it does with us. We look back to the demonstration they looked ahead as the only differnce

1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

What I have noticed today that when the word reformation comes up most people would shy away from discussing what the time of the reformation mean to a believer and how it affected an outward Jew.

Other than the sanctuary part of the first covenant (what the eyes see) nothing changed, the moral laws remain to govern the hearts of a fallen race right up the last day.

The word figure below is the word parable . The word parable for a couple of reasoned would better represent the time of reformation. For one Christ said without parables He spoke not hiding the spiritual understanding in lieu of the gospel from the lost


3850 parabole {par-ab-ol-ay'}


from 3846; TDNT - 5:744,773; n f

AV - parable 46, figure 2, comparison 1, proverb 1; 50

Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them "until" the time of reformation. Heb 9:9


Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. Heb 9:9
 
Last edited:
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
128
0
71
#4
The accusation of Antinomianism is itself a red herring to avoid the fact that what we are, are new creations. It is a rather... useless allegation because it is almost always found to be false. Whom do you know that professes that we should live like heathen and be saved? Whom do you know professes a license to sin, and does so? Where do you find antinomianism in the Church? It surely is not in reference to those encouraging others to understand God's grace, for do they not encourage others as the Apostle Paul, to reckon themselves dead to sin and alive unto God?

I call a red herring. A rotting putrid red herring, an old excuse to dismiss that we no longer serve in the oldness of the letter but the newness of the spirit. Legalism's last stand is to defame their opposition, to put doubt in the reader's mind so as to veil the truth of sin's dominion being removed not under the law, but under grace.

Antinomianism, giving the benefit of the doubt, is sourced, at least in today's society, from a misunderstanding of God's grace, and how being under it, we are freed from sin's dominion. It is a term thrown to defame others while ignoring clarity. It is, again, a red herring. It is to dismiss the conversation, to stay in tradition, and to not grow in revelation and rather stay in chains. What chains? That of Legalism. A call to righteousness that is not sourced from God, but hypocrisy and self aggrandizement.

You see, no matter the truth that is presented in how we serve in the newness of the spirit and not the oldness of the letter, people still cling to their morality. There is something inside of them, something not of faith, that attempts to feel comfortable within one's own self. To feel sure, and secure knowing that they are in the right place. Not so wrong in that of wanting to be in a righteous place, but that comfort is only needed when one believes that there is condemnation in Christ where their foundation is not the Lord (the Author and Finisher of their faith) but their maintenance of salvation.

Do you see it? Antinomianism the idea that one is against the law (rules, regulations, or in this case Moses' Law) is truly moot, because no one is professing it. Sure, they uphold justification by faith, in Christ alone, but not to the degree that they deny the changing power of God's grace. Not unto salvation, in that of goodness, and in daily living, and holiness. Their righteousness comes about through being born-again, made a new creation, renewing the mind to who they are in Him, and above all these truths, the sanctification of God. He changes us, He gets the glory. Look at our baptism symbolically and you see that we are dead to sin and alive unto God.

The red herring, old and rotting, is useless. It is Legalism's last defense to change the conversation so that their self-righteousness is not exposed and they may continue in their hypocrisy at the cost of other's peace. They lay a burden on others that they themselves do not keep, though they profess to. Antinomianism is not the grace that is espoused, for it would not be God's grace. No, the grace often preached on this site by proponents of the Lord's process by which we may be set free from sin, is only of an abounding grace. One that forgives and sets free, one that cost Christ His life on the cross but beautifully His resurrection onto our justification. The echo here is as the Apostle Paul states, shall we sin so that grace may abound? God forbid!

We are dead to sin. New creations. We serve in the newness of the spirit and not the oldness of the letter. Died with Christ, and so risen. The Lord sanctifies us, and chastises us, building character. The allegation of Antinomianism is rather an ignorant one, for it reveals the ignorance of the one stating it. I don't know if it is willful ignorance as I said so as to be a red herring, but it is one that is pointless, and unfounded given but a minute of study. We are no longer slaves to sin, but servants of righteousness.
Why is it you people are always using words (such as Antinomianism) that I have to google to find a definition?
 
Dec 2, 2016
1,652
26
0
#6
Just my own experiences. I went from a Baptist to a Charismatic church and loved the praise and worship, however I was not there all that long before I noticed a definite lack of respect for discernment of scriptural right and wrong. Some ladies came to church in shorts and no shoes, men and women were hugging each other all the time in a quite personal way. There was just a general attitude that we are so full of love so that we do not have to worry about sin, yet sin was all over the place in that church. What I am trying to say is that, they may not be full blown antinomian, but they were drifting in that direction.
 
May 12, 2017
2,641
65
0
#10
Just my own experiences. I went from a Baptist to a Charismatic church and loved the praise and worship, however I was not there all that long before I noticed a definite lack of respect for discernment of scriptural right and wrong. Some ladies came to church in shorts and no shoes, men and women were hugging each other all the time in a quite personal way. There was just a general attitude that we are so full of love so that we do not have to worry about sin, yet sin was all over the place in that church. What I am trying to say is that, they may not be full blown antinomian, but they were drifting in that direction.
How do people hugging and women wearing shorts and no shoes = SIN

SO I guess the missionary better tell all those nekkid natives in bare feet and hugging people they are sinning.

People like you are not in chains, you forge them

The most incredible aspect about Jesus Christ and his love was that his love had the ability to see past the outward appearances and fix the broken condition on the inside.

Some of you all here could never get past the outward appearance and is why you cannot correct the broken condition. Jesus never cleaned them up first, he ministered first and they were cleaned up.
 
Last edited:
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#11
Lots of people can't get past the outer appearance..... like wearing tight short-shorts, or halter tops or tube tops or wearing short dresses while sitting on the platform, or guys wearing torn T-shirts, or pictures of Metallica or AC/DC on them.

The last time I looked, I'm still in corrupted flesh & I'm still a man.

I guess I'm wrong 'cause I won't conform.:rolleyes:
 
Mar 23, 2016
6,857
1,646
113
#12
Lots of people can't get past the outer appearance..... like wearing tight short-shorts, or halter tops or tube tops or wearing short dresses while sitting on the platform, or guys wearing torn T-shirts, or pictures of Metallica or AC/DC on them.

The last time I looked, I'm still in corrupted flesh & I'm still a man.

I guess I'm wrong 'cause I won't conform.:rolleyes:
Please Steven63, we beg of you, P L E A S E do NOT wear tight short-shorts and a halter (or tube) top. And please, please, please do NOT wear a short dress and sit on the platform.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,322
16,306
113
69
Tennessee
#13
Why is it you people are always using words (such as Antinomianism) that I have to google to find a definition?
If I have to do a google search to find out what an archaic term means then that post is probably not worth the effort to understand.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#14
How do people hugging and women wearing shorts and no shoes = SIN

SO I guess the missionary better tell all those nekkid natives in bare feet and hugging people they are sinning.

People like you are not in chains, you forge them

The most incredible aspect about Jesus Christ and his love was that his love had the ability to see past the outward appearances and fix the broken condition on the inside.

Some of you all here could never get past the outward appearance and is why you cannot correct the broken condition. Jesus never cleaned them up first, he ministered first and they were cleaned up.
Isaiah 58

good post Megiddo..
 
May 12, 2017
2,641
65
0
#15
Lots of people can't get past the outer appearance..... like wearing tight short-shorts, or halter tops or tube tops or wearing short dresses while sitting on the platform, or guys wearing torn T-shirts, or pictures of Metallica or AC/DC on them.

I guess I'm wrong 'cause I won't conform.:rolleyes:

I see your point here in context of church leaders, worship leaders, etc and agree with you on that.


Are you this way with babes in Christ and the lost Stephen?
The love of Jesus causes you to become blind so that you may see [John 9.39]
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#16
I see your point here in context of church leaders, worship leaders, etc and agree with you on that.


Are you this way with babes in Christ and the lost Stephen?
The love of Jesus causes you to become blind so that you may see [John 9.39]
Babes, yes..... for there's no excuse for a babe that's never grown up for over 20 years.

Unsaved, no..... They can come just as they are.

That being said, I wouldn't allow a sinner after a straight 6 months to do it either, for a little leaven leavens the whole lump.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,022
26,149
113
#17
Just my own experiences. I went from a Baptist to a Charismatic church and loved the praise and worship, however I was not there all that long before I noticed a definite lack of respect for discernment of scriptural right and wrong. Some ladies came to church in shorts and no shoes, men and women were hugging each other all the time in a quite personal way. There was just a general attitude that we are so full of love so that we do not have to worry about sin, yet sin was all over the place in that church. What I am trying to say is that, they may not be full blown antinomian, but they were drifting in that direction.
I suppose if they also greeted each other with a kiss as Scripture says we are to do, you would have high tailed it a lot sooner, huh?
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#18
I suppose if they also greeted each other with a kiss as Scripture says we are to do, you would have high tailed it a lot sooner, huh?
These days in the modern church, you betcha!