Consequences of sinning

[Grace777x70]

no i dont like false teachings at all , you have that one correct. I used to think you were just unaware, but i notice you constantly pluck only what supports the gog, which theres a difference in incomplete doctrine, and false doctrine.

the grace of God didnt come like that, it came in the gospel of the Kingdom of God, through Jesus Christ. it doesnt change from Jesus to paul, pauls merely a servant preaching the gospel of Gods Kingdom like the other 11.

its definately not nonsense lol let me ask you a very simple question why do you avoid all of the true context?

for instance you will say like you did in the comment i was speaking to

" Jesus said hell be with us forever, hes not a liar" then wuote john 14:16, yet you omit verse 15 and 17? its really evident actually rather than nonsense.

john 14:15-17 "If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


i already understand why you do this i think, im wondering though, why do you have to only quote 1 of the three, and certainly never speak if the context in verses 20-26

At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Im wondering since its just "nonsense" why you instead say " jesus said the holy spirit will be with us forever he doesnt lie, yet very clearly a 12 year old can see that keeping His words, Keeping His commandments is a condition set BY JESUS not a "man made works false religion" that you so often explain when you go into the finished works speech


im really wanting to hear why you do that, why its necassary to only believe certain unconditional seeming verses?

isnt that when a person needs the special "grace goggles" that teach us Jesus was teaching the law 2.0 instead of the gospel? and we need to just ignore anything like the context He gave and just focus on inconditional grace as isnt taught in scripture with actual context?


ive tried to understand you often, and its always a big circle it seems like to me, help me understand why you do that.

All scripture needs to be viewed through the lens of the finished work of Christ on the cross and resurrection.

If we don't look at scripture this way - we will make a mess out of the gospel ad try to water it done to make it "do-able" in our own human effort and flesh. We end up with doctrines that we lose our salvation because we mix up the Old Covenant with the New Covenant and we ruin both just as Jesus said we would do.

Jesus told the rich young ruler when he came to Jesus and said "What must "I do" to inherit eternal life? Jesus said "Keep the law of Moses - the commandments." The rich guy said that he had kept them all.

Then Jesus said to go and sell what you have and follow Him - the rich guy went away sad because he had his wealth as his #1 thing in his life and thus was breaking the very 1st commandment which he thought he had kept.

Do, we now use "Jesus' words" to the rich ruler when people ask us how do we get saved? No, of course not - that was law.

What do we tell people now in the New Covenant?

Acts 16:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

[SUP]31 [/SUP] They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

I have told you this many times but I will again as maybe it will help a reader of the thread. Jesus taught the law of Moses 2.0 and elevated it to those who were depending on the law of Moses for life and living in order to expose their need for a Savior.

Jesus taught the grace and love of God to those that knew they needed Him. Jesus was the greatest law of Moses teacher and well as the greatest grace teacher. It all depended on whom He was talking to at the time and for what purpose. Don't take someone else's medicine.

I will answer your question at the end of your post about "lens" in the next post. I encourage you to inquire of the Lord about the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ has done mighty things for us and we are exceeding glad.

The angel at Jesus' birth declared "Behold, do not be afraid, I bring good news of great joy which will be for "all the people".

 

[Grace777x70]

1 John 3:9New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.



Scripture confounds almost all statements made by this guy.

When you sin Chrisis1975 - and we all know you do just like every one else from time to time - in your own religion - your interpretation of that scripture in 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18 means that you are a child of the devil and not born of God.

Your own religion is constantly condemning you to hell. The gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and His thoughts are higher then our thoughts as the stars are higher then the earth.

 

[Grace777x70]

" Jesus said hell be with us forever, hes not a liar" then wuote john 14:16, yet you omit verse 15 and 17? its really evident actually rather than nonsense.

john 14:15-17 "If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


i already understand why you do this i think, im wondering though, why do you have to only quote 1 of the three, and certainly never speak if the context in verses 20-26

At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Im wondering since its just "nonsense" why you instead say " jesus said the holy spirit will be with us forever he doesnt lie, yet very clearly a 12 year old can see that keeping His words, Keeping His commandments is a condition set BY JESUS not a "man made works false religion" that you so often explain when you go into the finished works speech


im really wanting to hear why you do that, why its necassary to only believe certain unconditional seeming verses?

isnt that when a person needs the special "grace goggles" that teach us Jesus was teaching the law 2.0 instead of the gospel? and we need to just ignore anything like the context He gave and just focus on inconditional grace as isnt taught in scripture with actual context?


ive tried to understand you often, and its always a big circle it seems like to me, help me understand why you do that.

Now I will answer your questions again for probably the 10th time in the last year but maybe it will help others viewing the thread.

First of all - just what are the commandments of God in the New Covenant?

Out of these commandments come everything else. Right believing will bring about right thinking which will bear the fruit of right living - but it all comes through the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The power of God operates in our life according to what we "see" in the gospel. Just like Jesus told Paul to preachy Christ so that they could " open their eyes" so that they might see the light of the glorious gospel.

These below are the commandments in the New Covenant. From these flow all the life and love and grace of God in our lives.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.


All Christians agree what the true Christian life looks like when Christ is manifesting the fruit of His life in us. The dis-connect comes when people talk about "how is this done".

Works-based belief systems use the Old Covenant mindset to try to effect transformation in Christians. Grace-based belief relies totally on the life and work of Christ in them to transform them by His love and grace towards us.

A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" you use to view the scripture.

In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing

New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"

Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.

Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"

Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..

So they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."

New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ.

They would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.

1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0

Ahhh..found His commandments in 1 John 3.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.


...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. We try to mix the Old Covenant ( before the cross and resurrection ) with the New Covenant and we get a religious mess.

Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.

Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

 

[Grace777x70]

There is a whole thread that talks about Hebrews 6:4-6. We can take any scripture out of context and end up with a false religion of self-works and self-righteousness which actually nullifies the very grace of God needed to walk godly in this world by the spirit.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138679-hebrews-6-4-6-not-seems.html

 

[Ariel82]

Yeah read all this and still don't see where your spirit is 100% righteous.

I believe in eternal security, renewing of the mind but I think it wrong to tell folks their spirit is 100% righteous When it's not.

I find it wrong to separate the mind, spirit, body and say one part is holy and the other is not.

The Holy Spirit is 100% holy and righteous. He teaches our heart and spirit and mind His righteousness.

When we sin He doesn't leave or abandon us.

He chastens us and teaches us better way. After we repent, he tells us he forgives us.

Satan will condemn and tell us we can never change and are unworthy to be forgiven.

God tells us that without Him that might have been true,but with God all things are possible.

What happened on the cross was not that God was made blind to our sins..,what happened was that God sees our sins and forgives them. He washes us clean and teaches us a way to overcome our sins.

God looks at us and sees who we are, but he also sees who we will become. What we need to do to renew our minds into becoming the person God created us to be.

We should be honest about where we are at.

To me it seems like a like to keep proclaiming that my spirit is 100% righteous but my mind and flesh is corrupt.

I don't divide who I am into pieces in that manner,

I know that I have spiritual strongholds that war against God, that God is helping me tear down. However they do not define who I am.

Who I am is a beloved child of God, washed clean by the blood of the Lamb seeking to do her Father's will on this earth.

When I do wrong, God chastens me and teaches me a better way. When I do right, I praise and glorify God because He taught me what is right and good. God will never abandon His children.

When God looks at me, he doesn't just see the white robes Jesus gave me...He sees me: who I am now and who He will have me become as I learn and walk with Him.

 

[Grace777x70]

The understanding of the new creation in Christ and the new identity of the believer is paramount to living the true Christian life.


Here it says our spirit ( the inner person that is a new creation in Christ ) is alive because of righteousness that it is it.

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin,yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Here righteousness is a gift - you don't earn it.

Romans 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

We have grace reigning in our lives because of righteousness in us.

Romans 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21[/SUP] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Here righteousness comes by faith.

Romans 9:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Here when we believe - we are righteousness.

Romans 10:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We are in the kingdom of God.

Romans 14:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17[/SUP] For the kingdom of God ( Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within you..He might know a thing or two ) is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Here it says that God made us righteousness in Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This says we have become the righteousness of Christ ( this is called a dependent clause in the greek - it is determined as fulfilled because Christ became sin )

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Believers are called righteousness.

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


Here it is saying that "righteousness comes by Christ".

Galatians 2:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Here we have the breastplate of righteousness - which is the armor of God that we are to be strong in.

Ephesians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, andhaving on the breastplate of righteousness;

This talks about the new man in Christ - the new creation.

Ephesians 4:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Ok..that's enough..there are tons more....

 

[Grace777x70]

We that are in Christ have the Lord's righteousness now in our inner man that is in Christ.

Isaiah 45:24-25 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "They will say of Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] "In the LORD all the offspring of Israel Will be justified and will glory."

Here is one more from the OT - Isaiah 54: 17 of the Lord telling what the believer would have because of what Christ did in Isaiah 53 when He died on the cross to take away our sin and make us righteous in Him.

Isaiah 54:17

[SUP]17 [/SUP] "No weapon that is formed against you will prosper; And every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, And their righteousness is from Me," declares the LORD.

Folks we have a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ!

Ephesians 3:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Now I will answer your questions again for probably the 10th time in the last year but maybe it will help others viewing the thread.

First of all - just what are the commandments of God in the New Covenant?

Out of these commandments come everything else. Right believing will bring about right thinking which will bear the fruit of right living - but it all comes through the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The power of God operates in our life according to what we "see" in the gospel. Just like Jesus told Paul to preachy Christ so that they could " open their eyes" so that they might see the light of the glorious gospel.

These below are the commandments in the New Covenant. From these flow all the life and love and grace of God in our lives.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.


All Christians agree what the true Christian life looks like when Christ is manifesting the fruit of His life in us. The dis-connect comes when people talk about "how is this done".

Works-based belief systems use the Old Covenant mindset to try to effect transformation in Christians. Grace-based belief relies totally on the life and work of Christ in them to transform them by His love and grace towards us.

A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" you use to view the scripture.

In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing

New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"

Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.

Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"

Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..

So they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."

New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ.

They would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.

1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0

Ahhh..found His commandments in 1 John 3.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.


...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. We try to mix the Old Covenant ( before the cross and resurrection ) with the New Covenant and we get a religious mess.

Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.

Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

John 14:15 Barnes commentary

If ye love me - Do not show your love by grief at my departure merely; or by profession, but by obedience.
Keep my commandments - This is the only proper evidence of love to Jesus, for mere profession is no proof of love; but that love for him which leads us to do all his will, to love each other, to deny ourselves, to take up our cross, and to follow him through evil report and through good report, is true attachment. The evidence which we have that a child loves its parents is when that child is willing, without hesitation, gainsaying, or complaining, to do all that the parent requires him to do. So the disciples of Christ are required to show that they are attached to him supremely by yielding to all his requirements, and by patiently doing his will in the face of ridicule and opposition,


Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments

Or if you love me keep my commandments.

Thats such a big twist in scripture its sad.

Its not hard to read scripture or if scripture doesn't seem to fit the message of scripture then some scripture must be really reviewed in context. But other than that this verse is easy to understand.

OSAS just trys to remove obedience out of the equation making obedience Gods action in the believer which would be loss of free will. Taking all responsibility and any relationship out of the equation because God teachs you to ride the bike but also peddles it for you too.

Such a false doctrine that really only makes sense if all 5 of the tulip is held. When yall pick and choose from the tulip nothing makes sense because the tulip was designed to all work off the T all the way to the P (osas). Its all false and perverted teaching of grace.

 

[Grace777x70]

John 14:15 Barnes commentary

If ye love me - Do not show your love by grief at my departure merely; or by profession, but by obedience.
Keep my commandments - This is the only proper evidence of love to Jesus, for mere profession is no proof of love; but that love for him which leads us to do all his will, to love each other, to deny ourselves, to take up our cross, and to follow him through evil report and through good report, is true attachment. The evidence which we have that a child loves its parents is when that child is willing, without hesitation, gainsaying, or complaining, to do all that the parent requires him to do. So the disciples of Christ are required to show that they are attached to him supremely by yielding to all his requirements, and by patiently doing his will in the face of ridicule and opposition,


Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments

Or if you love me keep my commandments.

Thats such a big twist in scripture its sad.

Its not hard to read scripture or if scripture doesn't seem to fit the message of scripture then some scripture must be really reviewed in context. But other than that this verse is easy to understand.

OSAS just trys to remove obedience out of the equation making obedience Gods action in the believer which would be loss of free will. Taking all responsibility and any relationship out of the equation because God teachs you to ride the bike but also peddles it for you too.

Such a false doctrine that really only makes sense if all 5 of the tulip is held. When yall pick and choose from the tulip nothing makes sense because the tulip was designed to all work off the T all the way to the P (osas). Its all false and perverted teaching of grace.

The reality is - the true gospel of the grace of Christ is 100% dependent on the life and work of Christ in our lives. It is the true Christian life.

We love because He first loved us. The Holy Spirit has poured the love of God into our hearts. When we walk by the spirit we will walk in His love.

These are "descriptions" of the true nature of the true believer that Christ is in who is joined as one spirit with the Lord forever. Jesus did say that the Holy Spirit will be with us forever. John14:16 Jesus is not a liar.

We are saved by the life of the Lord Jesus Christ which is in us in our new creation. We are now learning how to walk by the spirit - which is our spirit in union with Christ by the Holy Spirit ( whom Jesus said would be in us forever - John 14:16 ).

Romans 5:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Living by the flesh does not stop making us a new creation in Christ. It makes us deceived by sin and distorts our view of the Lord's love and grace towards God Himself, others and ourselves.

I have found the very same thing happening in my life. The more I see Christ and what He has done - and the more I agree with His work - the more He becomes manifested in my life and the things of the flesh just have fallen off like dead leaves on a branch.

Transformation is really the emerging new man that is in Christ being manifested in our bodies while we are here on this earth.

This transformation of what already is in us in Christ in our new creation ( It is not called a "new evolution" ) can be seen by man as our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ's work for us. Rom. 12:2

We are simply "being" who we already are when we "put on Christ".

The new man in Christ is like the invisible man - when he put clothes on, people could then see him. We put on Christ and people see the new man in Christ manifested and God gets glorified.

This all happens by grace through faith in what Christ has done and we participate in it with Him for it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He will be faithful to us. Phil. 2:13

As we learn to walk by the spirit instead of the flesh - then we experience God's kind of life in our lives and then our light will shine and the people of the world will see the love and grace our loving father and Lord have for them.

 

[Ariel82]

None of that addresses what I said.

We have the breast plate of righteousness and that is from Christ and is His righteousness.

However, God still teaches us how to use the armor He gave us.

The Holy Spirit is 100% pure and teaches us how to live godly lives: mind body and soul.

However God sees past the armor and see where we are at and what we need to learn to tear down our personal spiritual strongholds. He is not blind to our sins and our needs. He doesn't condemn us but convicts and helps us overcome.

We have both the alien righteousness given by Christ which enables us to learn and receive a proper righteousness by walking with the Holy Spirit.

Giving just half the gospel leads to error.

PS when did this thread turn into one about OSAS?

 

[Ariel82]

What is your stance on free will versus election, G777?

 

[Grace777x70]

I love the truth of how Jesus lived. He lived completely dependent on the Father inside of Him - and so we do the same thing - rely on Christ alone.

We are now sons/daughters of God and live by His life that is in us now.

Jesus said that He lived by the Father inside of Him. He said that it is the Father inside Him who is doing His works - not Jesus. He could do nothing of His own initiative.

As Jesus lived by the life of the Father in Him - with total dependence on His life - so we too live by the life of Christ inside of us manifesting His life as a fruit of our union as one spirit with Christ. We too can do nothing without Christ.

We live now from the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus, the law of love, the law of liberty in Christ, the law of faith ( the law is NOT of faith ) , the law of Christ Himself.

These laws of Christ Himself will manifest His life in and through us and we will not need to "obey" an external law as in Lev. 18:23 to not have sex with animals. The life of Christ will keep us from doing that. We can trust Him inside of us who is our life.

As we "Keep our eyes on Jesus" - His life will bear the fruit in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to know our loving Father and Lord for who they truly are.

If anyone be in Christ - he is a new creation - Behold ( which means to see, to perceive, to gaze upon" - old things have passed away and new things have come.

Just what are "these new things"? What mighty work has the Lord done for us because of His great love and grace?

The answers to these question revealed by the Holy Spirit will cause us to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God will be a natural manifestation of His life in us.

 

[Grace777x70]

What is your stance on free will versus election, G777?

Actually I give that as much thought as I do wondering about the population of the ants in the Amazon rain forest. I have very little interest in the subject.

I'm in awe of Christ and all that He has already done for us because of His great love and grace. He occupies my thoughts and desires to know Him. It will take an eternity to see Him for who He really is.

But I believe in this:

Luke 2:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people;

Romans 10:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

[SUP]13 [/SUP] for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."


John 7:37-38 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.

[SUP]38 [/SUP] "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'"

 

[Muzungu256]

i think this is beating a dead horse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! neither side will change their viewpoint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what should we do?????????????

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Not understanding Gods message and listening carefully to His instructions and teaching
mean men ignore Christs words, change His message and end up with gnostic easy believism.

And there escape about losing faith, is all the cases of losing faith or the parables they never
had faith in the first place. Now this is odd because Hebrews clearly states those who have
tasted of God, the Holy Spirit

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age
Heb 6:4-5

What have these people got
1. The heavenly gift
2. The Holy Spirit
3. Understood the word of God
4. Powers of the coming age

These people fall away or "who have fallen away"

The writer of hebrews wants it very clear, these guys knew everything and fell away.
If you tried no one could make it clearer, unless you want above all else to believe this
is impossible, and then you will change whatever is written.

Very true. Its amazing how this scripture can be twisted instead of just reading it.

 

[Ariel82]

Actually I give that as much thought as I do wondering about the population of the ants in the Amazon rain forest. I have very little interest in the subject.

I'm in awe of Christ and all that He has already done for us because of His great love and grace. He occupies my thoughts and desires to know Him. It will take an eternity to see Him for who He really is.

But I believe in this:

Luke 2:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people;

Romans 10:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

[SUP]13 [/SUP] for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."


John 7:37-38 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.

[SUP]38 [/SUP] "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'"

So free will then, since you didn't quote verses about predestination or election.

 

[Grace777x70]

So free will then, since you didn't quote verses about predestination or election.

It is used 6 times in the New Testament and it speaks of Christ and what He has done and what God has ordained to be done by and through Him. I just stick with Christ and behold Him and all things will come into their place.

I do like this simple understanding of it but that is all the thought or interest I have in the subject.

[video=youtube;d4Ewsad_yEk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4Ewsad_yEk[/video]

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments

Or if you love me keep my commandments.

Thats such a big twist in scripture its sad.

Its no hard to read scripture or if scripture doesn't seem to fit the message of scripture then some scripture must be really reviewed in context. But other than that this verse is easy to understand.

1 John 5:

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


God's commandments are not grievous (not burdensome, hard).


If we find it hard to keep God's commandments, we are no longer walking by the Spirit (who we are in Christ), but have slipped back to keeping God’s commandments in and of ourselves. Jesus tells us in Matt 11 that we are to take His yoke upon us and learn of Him, for His yoke is easy and His burden light. It is Jesus Christ Himself Who yokes up to us and helps us. We are wholly incapable of keeping God's commandments in and of ourselves. You know it and I know it.

 

[BeyondET]

All scripture needs to be viewed through the lens of the finished work of Christ on the cross and resurrection.

If we don't look at scripture this way - we will make a mess out of the gospel ad try to water it done to make it "do-able" in our own human effort and flesh. We end up with doctrines that we lose our salvation because we mix up the Old Covenant with the New Covenant and we ruin both just as Jesus said we would do.

Jesus told the rich young ruler when he came to Jesus and said "What must "I do" to inherit eternal life? Jesus said "Keep the law of Moses - the commandments." The rich guy said that he had kept them all.

Then Jesus said to go and sell what you have and follow Him - the rich guy went away sad because he had his wealth as his #1 thing in his life and thus was breaking the very 1st commandment which he thought he had kept.

Do, we now use "Jesus' words" to the rich ruler when people ask us how do we get saved? No, of course not - that was law.

What do we tell people now in the New Covenant?

Acts 16:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

[SUP]31 [/SUP] They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

I have told you this many times but I will again as maybe it will help a reader of the thread. Jesus taught the law of Moses 2.0 and elevated it to those who were depending on the law of Moses for life and living in order to expose their need for a Savior.

Jesus taught the grace and love of God to those that knew they needed Him. Jesus was the greatest law of Moses teacher and well as the greatest grace teacher. It all depended on whom He was talking to at the time and for what purpose. Don't take someone else's medicine.

I will answer your question at the end of your post about "lens" in the next post. I encourage you to inquire of the Lord about the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ has done mighty things for us and we are exceeding glad.

The angel at Jesus' birth declared "Behold, do not be afraid, I bring good news of great joy which will be for "all the people".

Good point about where a person's heart is, Jesus knew the rich guy wasn't going to sell everything thus why He ask of it of the man. Surely it was a example, for this one below is also quite similier yet different outcome.

Luke 19
1And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho. 2And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich. 3And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature. 4And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way. 5And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house. 6And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully. 7And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.

8And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

1 John 5:

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


God's commandments are not grievous (not burdensome, hard).


If we find it hard to keep God's commandments, we are no longer walking by the Spirit (who we are in Christ), but have slipped back to keeping God’s commandments in and of ourselves. Jesus tells us in Matt 11 that we are to take His yoke upon us and learn of Him, for His yoke is easy and His burden light. It is Jesus Christ Himself Who yokes up to us and helps us. We are wholly incapable of keeping God's commandments in and of ourselves. You know it and I know it.

No one said we could with out God. Its a relationship of surrender to his will. His yoke is easy compared to hell. Being killed and persecuted for Jesus doesn't seem very light but compared to hell yes its verrry light.