"EIS" OR "DIA" OR "HOTI" ??
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"Adding" water baptism to "believes in Him" in John 3:18 is poor theology at best. In regards to "faith alone," the Bible clearly teaches in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 5:1; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Ephesians 2:8; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).
*You don't need to add the word "alone" next to belief/faith in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words belief/faith "stand alone" in these many passages of scripture in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these passages say belief/faith "plus something else?" NO! So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.
*Not to be confused with "faith only" -- empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone -- "barren of works" (James 2:14-24).
*You don't need to add the word "alone" next to belief/faith in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words belief/faith "stand alone" in these many passages of scripture in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these passages say belief/faith "plus something else?" NO! So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.
*Not to be confused with "faith only" -- empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone -- "barren of works" (James 2:14-24).
Baptismal regeneration is a straw-man term used by those who do not wish to accept the flow and form of the Bible. God has always expected obedience in return for His blessing. This is proven throughout both the Old and New Testament. There are countless examples of this. Those of the faith alone sects refuse to present verses that show God granting His blessings to those without obedience. They but present general statements as all encompassing and twist the more detailed verses into something they are not, such as Acts 2:38.
Only those against baptismal regeneration bring it up, a classic straw-man.
Only those against baptismal regeneration bring it up, a classic straw-man.
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You are but doing the same thing that you accuse me of.
The verses you site do not say faith "plus with the understanding of not being barren of works". Again, your verses are but general in nature, where are your many verses of faith alone. Surely they must be some? Any? If it is so clear why not even one? Your latching onto such general statements and rejecting more detailed verses is your undoing.
Faith in Jesus Christ and His resurrection is the core foundation of salvation, but not its boundary.
Faith alone did not cure the blind man at the Pool of Siloam, it was his obedience. Without obedience even true faith is null and void. (James 2:14-24)
The verses you site do not say faith "plus with the understanding of not being barren of works". Again, your verses are but general in nature, where are your many verses of faith alone. Surely they must be some? Any? If it is so clear why not even one? Your latching onto such general statements and rejecting more detailed verses is your undoing.
Faith in Jesus Christ and His resurrection is the core foundation of salvation, but not its boundary.
Faith alone did not cure the blind man at the Pool of Siloam, it was his obedience. Without obedience even true faith is null and void. (James 2:14-24)
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Oh please, if this is the best you can do then how do you account for this:
1 When He had come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed Him.
2 And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.”
3 Then Jesus put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.”Immediately his leprosy was cleansed.Matt 8:1-3
Faith, and faith alone!
1 When He had come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed Him.
2 And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.”
3 Then Jesus put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.”Immediately his leprosy was cleansed.Matt 8:1-3
Faith, and faith alone!
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Jesus did not ask the leper to do anything, He but healed him. There are other examples of this as well. What is your point?
If Jesus would have told this leper to dip himself in the Jordan River and the leper would not obey, would he have been healed, of course not.
Read the story of another leper in 2nd Kings 5 and tell me if you think that leper would have been healed without obedience.
I look forward to it.
If Jesus would have told this leper to dip himself in the Jordan River and the leper would not obey, would he have been healed, of course not.
Read the story of another leper in 2nd Kings 5 and tell me if you think that leper would have been healed without obedience.
I look forward to it.
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Well, I may be one of graceNpeace's "comrades" so I want to point to your above straw man being upfront. 
No one who knows and truly represents "faith alone" is divorcing it from Scriptural baptism, and at the same time recognize that baptism adds nothing to the process of salvation. Salvation was already complete at the moment of regeneration and conversion and baptism reflects this transaction.
So the bottom line is you're misrepresenting faith alone, IOW your argument is a straw man.
No one who knows and truly represents "faith alone" is divorcing it from Scriptural baptism, and at the same time recognize that baptism adds nothing to the process of salvation. Salvation was already complete at the moment of regeneration and conversion and baptism reflects this transaction.
So the bottom line is you're misrepresenting faith alone, IOW your argument is a straw man.
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The point is: faith and faith alone!
The leper was healed by faith - no quest of obedience required.
Similarly, salvation by grace through faith - no quest of obedience required:
[FONT="]8 [/FONT][FONT="]For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]9 [/FONT][FONT="]not of works, lest anyone should boast. [/FONT][FONT="]Eph 2:8-9
[/FONT]Any works we do are a consequence of this (including water baptism):
10[FONT="]For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.[/FONT][FONT="] Eph 2:10
[/FONT]For you try and present the events with the blind man at the Pool of Siloam as normative is just plain wrong.
Sometimes Jesus did ask people to DO things when He healed them, most of the time He did not.
Referring me to 2 Kings chapter 5 will not change the fact that salvation is not a function of water baptism.
The leper was healed by faith - no quest of obedience required.
Similarly, salvation by grace through faith - no quest of obedience required:
[FONT="]8 [/FONT][FONT="]For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]9 [/FONT][FONT="]not of works, lest anyone should boast. [/FONT][FONT="]Eph 2:8-9
[/FONT]Any works we do are a consequence of this (including water baptism):
10[FONT="]For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.[/FONT][FONT="] Eph 2:10
[/FONT]For you try and present the events with the blind man at the Pool of Siloam as normative is just plain wrong.
Sometimes Jesus did ask people to DO things when He healed them, most of the time He did not.
Referring me to 2 Kings chapter 5 will not change the fact that salvation is not a function of water baptism.
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Well, I may be one of graceNpeace's "comrades" so I want to point to your above straw man being upfront.
No one who knows and truly represents "faith alone" is divorcing it from Scriptural baptism, and at the same time recognize that baptism adds nothing to the process of salvation. Salvation was already complete at the moment of regeneration and conversion and baptism reflects this transaction.
So the bottom line is you're misrepresenting faith alone, IOW your argument is a straw man.
No one who knows and truly represents "faith alone" is divorcing it from Scriptural baptism, and at the same time recognize that baptism adds nothing to the process of salvation. Salvation was already complete at the moment of regeneration and conversion and baptism reflects this transaction.
So the bottom line is you're misrepresenting faith alone, IOW your argument is a straw man.
Salvation does not lead to obedience. Obedience leads to salvation. Your theories do not trump what is clearly preached.
We may disagree about what needs to be obeyed but not the need to obey.
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It's clearly laid out in Scripture. Romans 4 for example. But I'm going to take issue with your nasty demeanor in the above in your accusatory tone "formulated this notion in your head" nonsense. It's uncalled for, is designed to be disrespectful and derogatory.
Then you go right to the "explain away" accusation, and bold the word need. The problem is you take descriptive texts and make them into prescriptive texts as all do who preach a false works salvation gospel. This is how you arrive at your error and are convinced you are correct while you are, in fact, preaching a false gospel of you, not Christ. I'll grant this, if there is no obedience there is no salvation.
Plainly, all in Christ are justified by faith, not works, that is a fact. Read Romans. Try to understand it's plain teachings. Stop putting in the text what you have to do to save yourself, help Christ save you, or add or diminish from the true Gospel.
And here is another plain fact -- we knew salvation was all by faith at conversion, it was common knowledge when we were brought to understand the Gospel, we understood it then as we do now, it was and remains all of Christ, because by His grace we believed the Gospel. It was none of us, nothing we'd done, was not dependent upon one thing that we could do or perform. This is all plainly taught in Scripture and why we arrive at not only Sola Fide but Solis Deo Gloria. You, on the other hand are preaching Soli Hominis Gloria at worst and Pars Hominis Gloria at best, yet both are false gospels.
Therefore we preach faith alone, a doctrine developed to expose the false gospel of Rome and its works based teachings.
Those who preach your gospel have departed from that knowledge down the road at some point in time and were indoctrinated with this other teaching contrary to Scripture, away from grace to another gospel. Now, even if you believed you had to do something in the beginning to help Jesus save you, then it is of no matter; you've always embraced a false gospel and have been hoodwinked even to this day.
More derogatory words, I hold to no theories, that is, unless you too want to apply this measure to yourself and say your understanding of Scripture is your theory. Fair enough, or do you wish to continue on with a double standard and snide remarks?
You're incorrect here because your foundation is errant. It is apparent you have contributed to your salvation by what you have done -- it is the clincher -- to you, your obedience, what you have done, sealed the deal. I'd say congrats but then I'd be an accomplice to your false teachings.
Salvation does lead to obedience - Romans 6:17, so it's not the other way around as you have it, you do err here sir. This is why Paul had written 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 to prevent folks who teach your doctrine from cropping up and boasting. And yes, you are boasting, that is another fact.
Obedience to the Gospel is evidence of conversion, not the cause.
You've made it the cause, and that is a sad fact. 1 Peter 1:3 shows your error plainly.
One cannot obey God or the Gospel until conversion, and so you have the proverbial cart before the horse. But go ahead, show us more of your error so it can be refuted with the Gospel if you'd like.
Then you go right to the "explain away" accusation, and bold the word need. The problem is you take descriptive texts and make them into prescriptive texts as all do who preach a false works salvation gospel. This is how you arrive at your error and are convinced you are correct while you are, in fact, preaching a false gospel of you, not Christ. I'll grant this, if there is no obedience there is no salvation.
Plainly, all in Christ are justified by faith, not works, that is a fact. Read Romans. Try to understand it's plain teachings. Stop putting in the text what you have to do to save yourself, help Christ save you, or add or diminish from the true Gospel.
And here is another plain fact -- we knew salvation was all by faith at conversion, it was common knowledge when we were brought to understand the Gospel, we understood it then as we do now, it was and remains all of Christ, because by His grace we believed the Gospel. It was none of us, nothing we'd done, was not dependent upon one thing that we could do or perform. This is all plainly taught in Scripture and why we arrive at not only Sola Fide but Solis Deo Gloria. You, on the other hand are preaching Soli Hominis Gloria at worst and Pars Hominis Gloria at best, yet both are false gospels.
Therefore we preach faith alone, a doctrine developed to expose the false gospel of Rome and its works based teachings.
Those who preach your gospel have departed from that knowledge down the road at some point in time and were indoctrinated with this other teaching contrary to Scripture, away from grace to another gospel. Now, even if you believed you had to do something in the beginning to help Jesus save you, then it is of no matter; you've always embraced a false gospel and have been hoodwinked even to this day.
More derogatory words, I hold to no theories, that is, unless you too want to apply this measure to yourself and say your understanding of Scripture is your theory. Fair enough, or do you wish to continue on with a double standard and snide remarks?
You're incorrect here because your foundation is errant. It is apparent you have contributed to your salvation by what you have done -- it is the clincher -- to you, your obedience, what you have done, sealed the deal. I'd say congrats but then I'd be an accomplice to your false teachings.
Salvation does lead to obedience - Romans 6:17, so it's not the other way around as you have it, you do err here sir. This is why Paul had written 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 to prevent folks who teach your doctrine from cropping up and boasting. And yes, you are boasting, that is another fact.
Obedience to the Gospel is evidence of conversion, not the cause.
You've made it the cause, and that is a sad fact. 1 Peter 1:3 shows your error plainly.
One cannot obey God or the Gospel until conversion, and so you have the proverbial cart before the horse. But go ahead, show us more of your error so it can be refuted with the Gospel if you'd like.
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I'm not the one who is trying to "shoe horn" works (with a heavy emphasis on water baptism) "into" salvation through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9).
Paul clearly states that we are saved through faith, NOT WORKS, not faith and works (Ephesians 2:8,9). NOWHERE does the Bible say we are "saved by works" or by "faith AND works." Just because genuine faith is evidenced by good works does not mean that we are saved by good works. We are saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:10).
*So once again, the Bible clearly teaches in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." You don't need to add the word "alone" next to belief/faith in those many passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words belief/faith "stand alone" in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation.
Faith in Jesus Christ and His resurrection saves. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed.
The blind man was cured of blindness after he washed in the Pool of Siloam. He was not saved based on the merits of washing in the Pool of Siloam. Big difference. Faith in Christ alone is sufficient to save because the OBJECT of our faith (Christ and His finished work of redemption) is the all sufficient means of our salvation. No supplements needed.
Without obedience we demonstrate that faith is null and void. Faith that produces no works at all demonstrates that it's an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14) and not true faith. *Key word for you in James 2:14 -- says or claims to have faith but has no works.
*Please pay close attention - The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith "in Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*
Paul clearly states that we are saved through faith, NOT WORKS, not faith and works (Ephesians 2:8,9). NOWHERE does the Bible say we are "saved by works" or by "faith AND works." Just because genuine faith is evidenced by good works does not mean that we are saved by good works. We are saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:10).
*So once again, the Bible clearly teaches in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." You don't need to add the word "alone" next to belief/faith in those many passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words belief/faith "stand alone" in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation.
Faith in Jesus Christ and His resurrection saves. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed.
The blind man was cured of blindness after he washed in the Pool of Siloam. He was not saved based on the merits of washing in the Pool of Siloam. Big difference. Faith in Christ alone is sufficient to save because the OBJECT of our faith (Christ and His finished work of redemption) is the all sufficient means of our salvation. No supplements needed.
Without obedience we demonstrate that faith is null and void. Faith that produces no works at all demonstrates that it's an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14) and not true faith. *Key word for you in James 2:14 -- says or claims to have faith but has no works.
*Please pay close attention - The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith "in Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*
In the first place, if being healed from leprosy is an illustration of salvation, we have another case that reveals one can be saved without any water. Read it in (Luke 5:12-15). *No water is found here. Secondly, Naaman was not even a believer until after dipping in Jordan. He said "NOW" (after being healed) I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel," (2 Kings 5:15) and vowed to worship only Him (vs. 17). *If we follow this "example," we will have to baptized unbelievers! Naaman received cleansing from leprosy (not eternal life) after he dipped in the Jordan 7 times, but no sins were literally remitted for Naaman in Jordan. Likewise, water baptism does not literally remit sins.
The NT uses the experience of Naaman as illustrative of the SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD, not of salvation through dipping in the Jordan River or through baptism. Naaman was a heathen, not a believer, and did not know God until the miracle occurred. The purpose of the miracle had nothing to do with salvation through baptism, but was to demonstrate "there is a prophet in Israel" (2 Kings 5:8) and that "there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel," as Naaman found out (2 Kings 5:15).
The NT uses the experience of Naaman as illustrative of the SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD, not of salvation through dipping in the Jordan River or through baptism. Naaman was a heathen, not a believer, and did not know God until the miracle occurred. The purpose of the miracle had nothing to do with salvation through baptism, but was to demonstrate "there is a prophet in Israel" (2 Kings 5:8) and that "there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel," as Naaman found out (2 Kings 5:15).
I am going to jump in here on baptism and ask about water baptism, I only see one verses that deal with water baptism are in I Corinthian 1:13-17 and the other is pointing to the water as an anti-type or it corresponds to the baptism that saves, which is the Spirits baptism. If you see other verses that I may have left out in the epistles on water baptism.
I Peter 3:21-22 NKJV "who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"
ESV "because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"
MEV "who in times past were disobedient, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.21 Figuratively this is like baptism, which also saves us now. It is not washing off the dirt from the body, but a response to God from a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"
Notice NKJV "antitype, ESV "corresponds", MEV "Figuratively" after speaking about the water that saved Noah and his family and our baptism, the baptism that we have that saves is the baptism of the Spirit that does not remove the faith or dirt of the flesh, it is the response of a good conscience towards God, how? through the resurrection. The cross is the negative side of your salvation and His resurrection is the positive side.
Romans 4:23-25 "Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him,24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead,25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification."
Romans 6:1-4 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
Romans 7:6 "But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter." The newness of life is the newness of the Spirit, so Romans 6 is not about water baptism.
Galatians 3:26-28 "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
Ephesians 4:4-6 "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
Colossians 2:11-12 "In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead."
So all of the verse that many see as speaking of water baptism are about the baptism of the Spirit by faith. There is one mention of baptism and the Lord and it seems as though it is the disciples baptizing, John 3:22 and Paul in I Corinthians 1 does not even remember if he baptized any of them. So there seems to be no emphases on baptism.
I Peter 3:21-22 NKJV "who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"
ESV "because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"
MEV "who in times past were disobedient, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.21 Figuratively this is like baptism, which also saves us now. It is not washing off the dirt from the body, but a response to God from a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"
Notice NKJV "antitype, ESV "corresponds", MEV "Figuratively" after speaking about the water that saved Noah and his family and our baptism, the baptism that we have that saves is the baptism of the Spirit that does not remove the faith or dirt of the flesh, it is the response of a good conscience towards God, how? through the resurrection. The cross is the negative side of your salvation and His resurrection is the positive side.
Romans 4:23-25 "Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him,24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead,25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification."
Romans 6:1-4 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
Romans 7:6 "But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter." The newness of life is the newness of the Spirit, so Romans 6 is not about water baptism.
Galatians 3:26-28 "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
Ephesians 4:4-6 "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
Colossians 2:11-12 "In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead."
So all of the verse that many see as speaking of water baptism are about the baptism of the Spirit by faith. There is one mention of baptism and the Lord and it seems as though it is the disciples baptizing, John 3:22 and Paul in I Corinthians 1 does not even remember if he baptized any of them. So there seems to be no emphases on baptism.
We are not saved by works of faith (works which are produced out of faith) but by faith in Christ. The works which follow are the fruit and NOT the root of salvation. You cannot dissect good works/works of righteousness from the MORAL aspect of the Law (Matthew 22:37-40).
Amen!
Seeking salvation by works (regardless of whether it's the moral aspect of the Law or the entire Law) is motivated by pride, self righteousness and fear of punishment. I often hear Campbellites say we are not saved by works of the law, but by works of obedience, which is a distinction without a difference because works of obedience fall under the MORAL aspect of the Law. Your saved by "these" works and just not "those" works argument is bogus.
Observing all the things commanded by God (after we have been saved through faith) is what we are saved FOR and NOT BY (Ephesians 2:10).
That's just your sugar coated version of salvation by faith + works. So according to your faulty human logic, Abraham remained lost in his sins when he believed God in Genesis 15:6 (when his faith was accounted to him for righteousness) and he was not actually saved until many years later, after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
*In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works. He was shown to be righteous.
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete, just like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the alter and demonstrated the reality of his faith in Genesis 22.
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
Faith results in producing obedience, yet we are saved through faith and not by obedience/works which follow. Believers obey Christ BECAUSE we are saved and not to become saved. You confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture and you also put the cart before the horse as you continue to promote your "works based" false gospel.
Yes, God does know the heart of man and God truly knows who is trusting in Christ as the all sufficient means of their salvation and who is also trusting in works for salvation. Our words reveal the state of our hearts on this matter.
Amen!
Seeking salvation by works (regardless of whether it's the moral aspect of the Law or the entire Law) is motivated by pride, self righteousness and fear of punishment. I often hear Campbellites say we are not saved by works of the law, but by works of obedience, which is a distinction without a difference because works of obedience fall under the MORAL aspect of the Law. Your saved by "these" works and just not "those" works argument is bogus.
Observing all the things commanded by God (after we have been saved through faith) is what we are saved FOR and NOT BY (Ephesians 2:10).
That's just your sugar coated version of salvation by faith + works. So according to your faulty human logic, Abraham remained lost in his sins when he believed God in Genesis 15:6 (when his faith was accounted to him for righteousness) and he was not actually saved until many years later, after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
*In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works. He was shown to be righteous.
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete, just like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the alter and demonstrated the reality of his faith in Genesis 22.
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
Faith results in producing obedience, yet we are saved through faith and not by obedience/works which follow. Believers obey Christ BECAUSE we are saved and not to become saved. You confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture and you also put the cart before the horse as you continue to promote your "works based" false gospel.
Yes, God does know the heart of man and God truly knows who is trusting in Christ as the all sufficient means of their salvation and who is also trusting in works for salvation. Our words reveal the state of our hearts on this matter.