Dan. 9

[Ahwatukee]

This is simply not what the text says. The Bible gives us "Hagios Topos". Holy place.

So now let's see an example of hagios in use:

Matthew 5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, (hagios polis) and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

Why does Matthew call Jerusalem the Holy City? Because it was always called that. Daniel himself calls it that, (and yet you accuse me of symbologizing Daniel - who is being faithful to the text here, you or me?):

Daniel 9:16
O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.


Jesus says in Matthew 24 that the appearance of the 'desolating sacrilege' 'in the Holy place' is the sign for the Church to escape Jerusalem. It is also qualified by 'let the reader understand'.

Is this ambiguous. Yes, highly. That is why Matthew qualifies it. So why is it ambiguous?

Matthew is the gospel writer to the Jews. He is writing pre AD67-73, pre the Wrath. He is therefore deliberately opaque about the sign to escape Jerusalem, because that sign is for the Church, not for unbelieving Jews. So if a Pharisee reads Matthew pre AD67, he is not allowed to understand this sign. All these things are clearly explained in Daniel. The wise only shall understand.

So Matthew here is wrong-footing the apostate Jews. They think it is the abomination in the Temple that means it is time to escape Jerusalem. Haha. Not.

But the desolating sacrilege in the Holy Place also makes sense as the Roman Armies camped in BethAven in AD66 under Gallus. Bethaven was within Jerusalem's walls, (Agrippa had put up a third perimeter wall in AD44 - oh the beauty of prophecy), the desolating sacrilege is the Roman Army Standard. It is sacrilege because the eagle denotes Zeus worship, it is desolating because the Roman Army were the desolating force.

So now lets cross-reference with Luke

21 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains;

So the equivalent text in Luke confirms that the sign was the Roman Armies camped around the city, in AD66.

All that you have provided is insignificant, for the answer is found within Daniel and Matthew. The scripture states that the ruler/antichrist, will cause the daily sacrifice and offerings to cease, which is alluding to the temple sacrifices. Therefore, teh setting up of the abomination is in reference to the room right outside of the holy of holies, which is the holy place within the temple.

"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

The abomination will be set up in the holy place, which is the proper name for the room just outside of the holy of holies.

If you want to believe that the mention of the "holy place" is referring to the entire city of Jerusalem, then be my quest. But I know what the scripture is referring to.

We'll just simply have to agree to disagree here.

 

[J7]

Ok, I am checking out of Hotel Pompous.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Ok, I am checking out of Hotel Pompous.

Not pompous, just knowledgeable of the truth of God's word. I'm not going to apologize for that.

 

[Rainrider]

Hello Rainrider,

Yeah, these people who come in symbolizing scriptures, which are meant to be interpreted literally, are in fulfillment of the following:

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

They are unable to discern the literal from the symbolic and by doing so they distort the scriptures. And it's going to get worse.

As I posted already, I come from a church that is a bit confused, (well ok a lot). So if you find me doing that I hope you will point it out, and explain how I got it wrong. I do my best, Though sadly, most of my time in study has been in the Torah. A little out side of it yes. I have only been looking at prophecy for about a year now, and the NT for around 6 years. So yes I am way behind where I should be. The hardest part of learning, (as I have been told) is to admit you don't know everything.
As we all should know, we will never know all there is to know about the Word, until we are at the feet of Yeshua, learning from the vary-one that stared it all. Don't know about you, I want so badly to be there.
Blessings my friend.

 

[Ahwatukee]

As I posted already, I come from a church that is a bit confused, (well ok a lot). So if you find me doing that I hope you will point it out, and explain how I got it wrong. I do my best, Though sadly, most of my time in study has been in the Torah. A little out side of it yes. I have only been looking at prophecy for about a year now, and the NT for around 6 years. So yes I am way behind where I should be. The hardest part of learning, (as I have been told) is to admit you don't know everything.

As we all should know, we will never know all there is to know about the Word, until we are at the feet of Yeshua, learning from the vary-one that stared it all. Don't know about you, I want so badly to be there.
Blessings my friend.

Good evening RainRider,

From the very beginning when I received Christ, I was drawn to Revelation and end-time events. And though the Holy Spirit has revealed many truths, I still don't know everything. But, I'd like to know every nook and cranny, every jot and tittle on every Biblical subject. So, I keep digging, comparing and cross-referencing scripture. I also spend time in both the old and new testaments. I'm in Numbers right now. I spend a lot of time in Daniel seeing that it is like a sister book to Revelation regarding end-time events.

Regarding wanting to be there, every true believer is longing for our blessed hope, the appearing of our Lord to gather us out of the world, which I believe is very, very, near.

 

[Rainrider]

Good evening RainRider,

From the very beginning when I received Christ, I was drawn to Revelation and end-time events. And though the Holy Spirit has revealed many truths, I still don't know everything. But, I'd like to know every nook and cranny, every jot and tittle on every Biblical subject. So, I keep digging, comparing and cross-referencing scripture. I also spend time in both the old and new testaments. I'm in Numbers right now. I spend a lot of time in Daniel seeing that it is like a sister book to Revelation regarding end-time events.

Regarding wanting to be there, every true believer is longing for our blessed hope, the appearing of our Lord to gather us out of the world, which I believe is very, very, near.

I always tell folks to be sure when they ask for something in pray. I longed for the day I could spend all day in study. Asked many times for Him to open a way for me to do so. Well in 2001 I broke my back, Now I can hardly walk to the bathroom. You know what though? It is the blessing I had asked for, I have that time I wanted so badly. I can deal with the pain, so long as I have the Word, to keep me going.

 

[J7]

Good evening RainRider,

From the very beginning when I received Christ, I was drawn to Revelation and end-time events. And though the Holy Spirit has revealed many truths, I still don't know everything. But, I'd like to know every nook and cranny, every jot and tittle on every Biblical subject. So, I keep digging, comparing and cross-referencing scripture. I also spend time in both the old and new testaments. I'm in Numbers right now. I spend a lot of time in Daniel seeing that it is like a sister book to Revelation regarding end-time events.

Regarding wanting to be there, every true believer is longing for our blessed hope, the appearing of our Lord to gather us out of the world, which I believe is very, very, near.

Must be hard to stay humble when you know so much

 

[Ahwatukee]

Must be hard to stay humble when you know so much

So, you're saying that a person cannot remain humble and knowledgeable at the same time?

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work."

I am zealous for the truth and accuracy of God's word. Therefore when I hear false teachings, and there are many, I contend for the truth of God's word.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I know that some will try to say the Temple should be down in the valley, Some 500yards I think they say, from where the dom of the rock is. Yet if you take a look at the Temple Institute, you will not find that they are looking to put any place other then where it should be. I grant, they may try to place it right next to the D.O.R. Yet by all accounts, it would still be placed where it should be. Don't get me wrong, I haven't studied this out like Rabbi Richman, and Joe Good, have. Though it is clear from what they say, they do believe it was on the east of the Temple Mont. Leaving room for both to stand.

That said, we all know that Islam will not go for that idea.

No they will not, and it is amazing how patient Israel is..

It is very possible that is the covenant the future prince makes, a covenant of peace to allow them to rebuild a temple, and not be attacked because of it. Of course, then after 3.5 years, He commits the abomination Daniel was told, and it is there for all the world to see (let alone Israel)

Thinking they had peace, just as the passage says, They now know, if they read, to run to the mountains, where John tells us in revelation God will protect them. While the beast goes after her offspring. Then great tribulation so great the world has never seen the like will be here, And only the return of Christ can stop it.

Of course it is just my view, it may happen a different way,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Daniels prayer was interrupted not to be fulfilled but give the Angel Gabriel time to give Daniel the Prophecy of Daniel 9: 24-27. Daniel already knew that the people of Babylon would be set free because he could read Jeremiah's prophecy and know that the 70 weeks of captivity under Babylon hands was up. Many of the Jewish Babylonians stated in Babylon instead of returning to Jerusalem to help rebuild it and the temple.

By the way, the 70 years of captivity stopped when Daniel met Cyrus (leader of the Persian Army) and gave him a 150 year old prophecy naming him the one to set God's people free. Under the Cyrus Decree he did just that.....

The idea being is the Bible is the History of not only man but the Jewish nation of Israel and its dealings with Gentiles throughout the last 5000 years.

God is and has always been in control.

Daniel knew the mosaic law, He knew that was the reson they were there to begin with, and that in order for God to restor. Isreal had to repent of her sins, That is what Daniel was doing, He was making intercessory prayer on behalf of his people.

The 70 Weeks is Gods answer to that prayer.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

E-G,,, the second AoD does not appear to happen in the same manner as Antiochus Epiphanes defilement of the Holy of Holies in 167BC. Jesus tells us in Mat 24, 15 and Mark 13:14 that the people shall flee the city when they see the (abomination of Desolate) or the antichrist STANDING in the Holy of Holies. Mark put it a little different but meaning the same... The Idol in the Holy of Holies was the AoD in 167BC, here the AoD is the Anti-Christ in person...

Note: This event happens at the end of the first 1260 days of the tribulations and at the beginning of the last 1260 days of the "Great Tribulations". During the first half, there is a battle in heaven between Satan's fallen angels and God's Angelic army. Satan is cast out of Heaven knowing that he now has only a short period of time 1260 days to complete his agenda.

During the first 1260 days of Daniels 70th week, the anti-christ many or may not be possessed by a demon. I personally think so but have yet to find it ..BUT .iF this is SO, it would enhance his ability to rise in statue rather quickly during this time of 3.5 years (even with the help of the Harlot). However, the Word of God tells us that the anti-christ in the last 1260 days will have a head wound. This suggest that He dies at the beginning of the last 1260 days of GT and is resurrected (performed by GOD--Satan does not have that ability) and his body is taken over by Satan. This would explain why just an ordinary man (anti-christ) would rise to the ranks of AoD if he steps into the Holy of Holies.

I say this because others have stepped into the Holy of Holies (Leviticus) and have simply lost their lives. Nothing mentioned about an AoD but simply the telling of the reason why they died.

What say you?

It tells us why they died.

They were not clean, and did not do something right, and entered in an unclean state, You can not enter the presence of God unclean and live, that was the message.

Now, after babylon, many people entered in and did not die, But I think that was because God no longer had a presence there, Israel was to deep in sin..

Those men went in thinking they were clean or it was ok.

A AOD is made to make the holy place desolate, They know they are unclean according to the temple standard, they just do not care, nor do they think the God of Israel has any power..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

(NIV) Daniel 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him

That is the AoD in AD70.

You need to correctly interpret and understand what is what.

The Abomination is the Roman Army Eagle. It desolates because the Roman Army is a destroying force.

Leviticus 26 32 And I will bring the land into desolation

ok, I am done.

I disagree with you, and that is fine, I think you are wrong, but thats ok too, But since you can not talk like a normal adult and just want to bully people around, I am finished with our conversation.

When you want to actually discuss, and stop telling people what to believe let me know, I may start back up again. Until then, Good day..

 

[Bladerunner]

(NIV) Daniel 27 [FONT="]He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed[FONT="][/FONT] is poured out on him[/FONT][FONT="]

[/FONT][/COLOR][FONT="]That is the AoD in AD70.

You need to correctly interpret and understand what is what.

The Abomination is the Roman Army Eagle. It desolates because the Roman Army is a destroying force.

[/FONT][FONT="][COLOR=#0000cd][FONT=Arial][B]Leviticus 26 32 [/B][/FONT]And I will bring the land into desolation

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You are too far out in LEFT field for me to reply to you in the future....So SAD

 

[J7]

well, since you mention it, quite a relief....

 

[miknik5]

It tells us why they died.

They were not clean, and did not do something right, and entered in an unclean state, You can not enter the presence of God unclean and live, that was the message.

Now, after babylon, many people entered in and did not die, But I think that was because God no longer had a presence there, Israel was to deep in sin..

Those men went in thinking they were clean or it was ok.

A AOD is made to make the holy place desolate, They know they are unclean according to the temple standard, they just do not care, nor do they think the God of Israel has any power..

It's just like strange fire


the wrong "aroma" before GOD

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's just like strange fire


the wrong "aroma" before GOD

I think it shows how desperate our situation was. Look what the high priest had to do to enter the room, Look what happened to that man that innocently touched the ark when it almost fell. They die on the spot. Because that is what would happen to every one of us if we came face to face with God without being cleansed.

the whole debate centers on how one is cleansed. (faith vs works)

 

[Bladerunner]

Daniel knew the mosaic law, He knew that was the reson they were there to begin with, and that in order for God to restor. Isreal had to repent of her sins, That is what Daniel was doing, He was making intercessory prayer on behalf of his people.

The 70 Weeks is Gods answer to that prayer.

I have to disagree with you eternally-gratefull... The reason being is the 70 years was a punishment not like the judgement (yes, they did not know the arrival of the Messiah and would not recognize Jesus as their king but this judgement is meant to drive Israel into the arms of God) handed down in 32AD...It was for a past sin of NOT adhering to his laws about the Sabbath. While Daniel kept them, Israel as a nation did not....Yes, I agree and did not say different... However,the 70 years was going to happen anyway and it did. Daniel was simply being true to his people which is why God called him his "Beloved". One of two prophets that he called that...Care to tell who the other was?

 

[Bladerunner]

Regardless of the "Angel's" name?
both Gabriel and Michael are under HIS authority

what about those Demons....they are not under the authority of angels.

 

[miknik5]

I think it shows how desperate our situation was. Look what the high priest had to do to enter the room, Look what happened to that man that innocently touched the ark when it almost fell. They die on the spot. Because that is what would happen to every one of us if we came face to face with God without being cleansed.

the whole debate centers on how one is cleansed. (faith vs works)

That's why HE covered over HIS GLORY in our (flesh) covering

Had HE come to us uncovered and in HIS FULL GLORY....

All would have perished

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have to disagree with you eternally-gratefull... The reason being is the 70 years was a punishment not like the judgement (yes, they did not know the arrival of the Messiah and would not recognize Jesus as their king but this judgement is meant to drive Israel into the arms of God) handed down in 32AD...It was for a past sin of NOT adhering to his laws about the Sabbath. While Daniel kept them, Israel as a nation did not....Yes, I agree and did not say different... However,the 70 years was going to happen anyway and it did. Daniel was simply being true to his people which is why God called him his "Beloved". One of two prophets that he called that...Care to tell who the other was?

Daniel confessed his sin right along with the people,

if you you look at lev 26, one of the requirements for being restored after they were dispearesed, and living in peace again was they had to repent of their sin and their fathers sin.

this is exactly what Daniel was doing, he understood the 70 years were up, and they had not yet repented.

Ps, the 70 weeks have not happened, only 69 of them have. Even Jesus said that Israel should have known the time of his coming, but they did not, so now it was hidden. There is an envisioned gap in the theory if you look, Jerusalem and the temple would be utterly destroyed, then all these things would happen (think wars wars and rumors of wars). Until a set time was complete, then the 70 weeks begin again. Then we have the AoD, then this would all end, then the 70 Weeks are up, Israel repents, has ended her sin of unbelief and idol worship, and prophesy is fulfilled