Not By Works

[PeterJens]

to me The law would lead to fear, and lead to worldy sorrow. Because it brings condemnation to all who do not obey,

And Godly sorrow only if it brings you to your knees and you recieve Christ.

Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it—I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while— 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 11 See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done.
2 cor 7:8-11

We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious
1 Tim 1:9

For in my inner being I delight in God’s law
Rom 7:22

I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
Rom 7:25

I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
Heb 8:10

 

[FranC]

No that is a miscommuncation. I said you believe others are saying that.

.I know you are against the idea of blaming God for our sins and I believe many others are also.

.However it seems you believe that Calvinist teach this through their doctrine of election and predestination?

If I find the response I will just pm it to you...I tend to get my numbers mixed up.

Calvinists do not believe we have free will.
They believe ONLY in God's sovereignty. This means that God decides EVERYTHING.

He decides who will be saved and who will be lost.
Not based on anything, just based on His own decision which is arbitrary. Based solely on His Will, IOW.

SO...

IF indeed, this is what God does, then it would mean that HE is responsible for the person sinning, since the person had no Free Will choice, and on top of that, God then sends them to hell for something they could not even help doing and have no responsibility for since they have no free will.

You really should learn about Calvinism. It's a really bad belief system.
It changes God from an all-good God to a real monster who just abuses us.

 

[Ariel82]

Garee, "to allow their sins to destroy them" is not a reflection on eternal salvation but what happens in this world to chastens God's children to see the error of their ways.

 

[PeterJens]

Some people use the law as a club to beat others with. However if we understand why God gave the law and how it keeps order in the world, it's empowering.

Satan will use the law to try and enslave people. However God gives us the tools through the Bible to fight back as Jesus did by untwisting Satan's lies with God's truth.

When Satan tells us to "prove" our faith and sonship by throwing ourselves off cliffs so angels will catch us, we should respond as Jesus did "Thou shall not tempt the Lord,Thy God."

I wonder how many tempt God daily to allow their sins to destroy them?

This is quite a claim "Some people use the law as a club to beat others with"

What are you referring to?
Are you suggesting someone with addiction problems or sexual inclinations that are not healthy
should not be challenged or something else?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Calvinists do not believe we have free will.
They believe ONLY in God's sovereignty. This means that God decides EVERYTHING.

He decides who will be saved and who will be lost.
Not based on anything, just based on His own decision which is arbitrary. Based solely on His Will, IOW.

SO...

IF indeed, this is what God does, then it would mean that HE is responsible for the person sinning, since the person had no Free Will choice, and on top of that, God then sends them to hell for something they could not even help doing and have no responsibility for since they have no free will.

You really should learn about Calvinism. It's a really bad belief system.
It changes God from an all-good God to a real monster who just abuses us.

I agree, that's why when we read what peoplsay we need to tak our Calvin/Armenian/Roman catholic glasses off, because we tend to place everyone in one of these three groups, and for this reason, never seem to grasp what others are trying to say

 

[UnderGrace]

With regards to believing and living in the Grace of God which you so clearly state is a travesty...

Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Hebrews 12:28

Interesting grace precedes reverence and godly fear.
I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely
Hosea 14:4-7

travesty grace theology does

Ariel the fear of the Lord is all about relationship....not every thing in the OT is about the law....this is another..it marginalizes OT scripture to the point of irrelevance...

The Fear of the Lord is not leading us to Christ, it is about how to have relationship with him....

 

[Zi]

Who are you???? You come in pages ago laughing at what you thought was funny and then mocking other posts and calling this thread kindergarten.. check yourself

Beration and belittlement are examples of "resting in the Lord"?... hardly. Maybe learning the humility and dignity of civil "discussions" rather than tearing away at a fellow lover of Jesus,, (quite the opposite of edification of our brothers and sisters in the Lord) would benefit you well.

 

[PHart]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees that.

The danger is to not let ourselves be drawn in to the caustic environment created by them. They push and provoke and berate and shame (that's a biggie) until you react, then they point out what a terrible person you are.

I saw the caustic environment that was being set here and I admit I was drawn into it and I have responded in ways I know better to not respond in. And for that I apologize to all. I especially want to apologize to anyone who may feel emboldened by my example to follow in my example. Don't do it. Online religious forums are the playground of the devil and it's better not to play here.

I know this will be an occasion for gloating by some, while my apology will be received by others. The important thing is I've made my peace and so Ill be moving on. Off to better things, folks. I'm out.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Calvinists do not believe we have free will.
They believe ONLY in God's sovereignty. This means that God decides EVERYTHING.

He decides who will be saved and who will be lost.
Not based on anything, just based on His own decision which is arbitrary. Based solely on His Will, IOW.

SO...

IF indeed, this is what God does, then it would mean that HE is responsible for the person sinning, since the person had no Free Will choice, and on top of that, God then sends them to hell for something they could not even help doing and have no responsibility for since they have no free will.

You really should learn about Calvinism. It's a really bad belief system.
It changes God from an all-good God to a real monster who just abuses us.

if you didnt have free will...

and you were made by God to be evil

....
and you were sent to hell for obeying him....

that seems odd to me


we HAVE free will

he knows what we would do
even before he made us...
but he is not willing any should perish

we have EVERYTHING we need accept Gods gifts

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The danger is to not let ourselves be drawn in to the caustic environment created by them. They push and provoke and berate and shame (that's a biggie) until you react, then they point out what a terrible person you are.

I saw the caustic environment that was being set here and I admit I was drawn into it and I have responded in ways I know better to not respond in. And for that I apologize to all. I especially want to apologize to anyone who may feel emboldened by my example to follow in my example. Don't do it. Online religious forums are the playground of the devil and it's better not to play here.

I know this will be an occasion for gloating by some, while my apology will be received by others. The important thing is I've made my peace and so Ill be moving on. Off to better things, folks. I'm out.

We will see, actions speak louder than words,

when someone disagrees with you, calling hem names, saying they have lost its or gloating that you have proved them wrong are not Christlike.

It gives God a bad name.

 

[PeterJens]

What are peoples glasses as some like to call it?

The danger is what they are saying is others are "brain washed" and only they have the correct
view on thing. Some even admit their bias by saying you have to put on a lens or perspective
to understand things.

You know the bias when it is displayed by use of words like
"wrong" "stop" "period"

And refusing to look at certain scriptures and actually read them for the words
they are saying.

So I doubt some are actually listening or being truthful but want to appear as if
they are listening. And the proof of listening is actually following an argument and
showing other people what they believe rather than just proclaiming no one has understood
them or knows what they believe, when clearly they do, but the person cannot admit it,
because that would mean they have lost the argument.

 

[Zen]

God's name can never be imperfect.

Psalm 138:6
Though the Lord be high, yet hath he respect unto the lowly: but the proud he knoweth afar off.

 

[Zi]

What said about Judas?

if you didnt have free will...

and you were made by God to be evil

....
and you were sent to hell for obeying him....

that seems odd to me


we HAVE free will

he knows what we would do
even before he made us...
but he is not willing any should perish

we have EVERYTHING we need accept Gods gifts

 

[PeterJens]

You know what God says

Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.
Rev 22:11

The spirit with which people speak will always find the individual out.
This is why sharing the love of Christ is so fantastic, because it will always
bear good fruit.

So everyone who say the law is evil and wrong and should never be read, just
needs to know Paul meditated on it, and it dwelt in his mind and heart as it
did with David and all the apostles. If one cannot resolve this within ones faith,
then there is something wrong with ones faith and not the law or scripture.

 

[garee]

So are you saying sinners experience worldly sorrow, but redeemed saints of God experience godly sorrow and actual repentance?

Hi thanks for the reply...Amen.

Sinners (really dead) in their trespasses and sin live in worldly sorrow and die in the same if theyhave not been born again .

The spiritual things of God are hid from them and neither could they know them. They are discerned by the Spirit of Christ who lives in the believer


Scripture defines the word (repent) used which means "to comfort".. its the work of the comforter who does bring to our mind the things he has taugth us

Yes, if God does not first turn us as he brings to mind that which has taught us there would be no voice to turn to other than the imaginations of ones own heart (the atheist source of faith)which the scriptures define as no faith, or a dead faith (can’t work)

Repentance is a work of God (not of our ownselves.) Some would boast in false pride

If any man has not the Spirit of Christ they have nothing that could turn them .God does all the work of salvation or he performs nothing.

I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God. Surely after “that” I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth. Jer 31:18

(cus someone is gonna come and accuse you of promoting sin because of a twisting of your first line "it's what sinner do sin" will be twisted into "you are saying people can't help but sin. You are saying it's okay to sin because that is what sinners do! You want people saved in their sin and not out of it" I am sure they can make more false arrows...fyi)

I am promoting forgiveness. The father of lies promotes sin accusing the believer day and night God cannot forgive a person whole sin .So no, that is not what I was trying to say. What I was trying to say if it is God who works in us according to His work of faith to both will and do His good pleasure.

How many times does a person need to be born again ?

Maybe you can clarify before they shoot that arrow at you?

I offer my private interpretation of His interpretation the bible just as any other man offers his own personal commentary of what they think the Spirit says to the churches.

What arrows? Shoot at who? Can we make the faith of Christ, the faith of God without effect because some do not believe?

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Rom 3:3

 

[dcontroversal]

Lol, see? I said you would continue to hear what I say as a works gospel. It's a joke. I mean a literal joke. You people are so determined to only dogmatically spew out your own doctrine you won't even listen to what is actually being said. I'm literally sick to my stomach from participating in this thread. And I know that's the Holy Spirit telling me to not talk anymore to you people.

Probably gas....may I suggest Tums or Pepto..........

 

[FranC]

if you didnt have free will...

and you were made by God to be evil

....
and you were sent to hell for obeying him....

that seems odd to me


we HAVE free will

he knows what we would do
even before he made us...
but he is not willing any should perish

we have EVERYTHING we need accept Gods gifts

NNM

I'm explaining what Calvinists believe.
I didn't say I agree with it !!

See. This is how misundersandings happen.
Please read the post again.

 

[Grace777x70]

It's time for some humor!

Get ready for the 2 witnesses that are in the book of Revelation to show up!

 

[FranC]

I agree, that's why when we read what peoplsay we need to tak our Calvin/Armenian/Roman catholic glasses off, because we tend to place everyone in one of these three groups, and for this reason, never seem to grasp what others are trying to say

This is not true for me. I tend to understand what people are saying.
I've said this before.

When you know the different groups and what they believe, you understand MORE not LESS.

Not everyone accepts everything that one Group teaches. THIS is why I listen attentively when people speak.

 

[garee]

Garee, "to allow their sins to destroy them" is not a reflection on eternal salvation but what happens in this world to chastens God's children to see the error of their ways.

I think God is able to kep His propmises .If he has begun the s good work of salvation in us we have his confidence by faith he will perfect it all the way to the end of the age .


Its what sin does... destroy corrupt .

A reflection of eternal life brings forgivness. In this world we will have have tribulation because we are sinners. God chastes his children to show us the error of our ways, at times like a branch he throws in the fire .

How many times does a person need to be born again before they can see the kingdom of God?