God's Commandment For Women Not To Speak In Church

[Muzungu256]

oh lol i forgot to answer the real topic.............. i think the bible is clear there that women shouldnt speak in church but i dont overstand why???????? it makes no sense i can overstand not being a pastor but not speak at all?????? how can in other places women prophecy in church????????????? it also logically makes no sense but hey God said it so unless anyone has a good explanation for it thats how it is......... but one thing i dont overstand is if it doesnt mean what it says why is it written lol......... maybe they were just a bunch of loud women up in corinth u see and it was written only to church of coritnh? maybe they was some hoodlums iono

 

[Enow]

Well, since you asked for it...

It is polite to stick to the OP anyway.

Use a little logic here. Is there any sense in thinking that just because man was created first, that woman should therefore be silent? Is that not the essence of a non sequitur? This passage makes perfect sense if Paul is addressing cultic beliefs that the woman was formed first and had secret knowledge, and that a woman teaching such things in the assembly ought to be silent and learn the truth first.

It is a principle of hermeneutics and exegesis that "if the plain sense makes sense, then seek no other sense". However, in this case, the plain sense doesn't make sense, so it is worthwhile to look further.

Then take everything in scripture on the context of that topic, because Paul is not addressing cultic beliefs.

1 Timothy 2:[SUP]11[/SUP]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.[SUP]13 [/SUP]For Adam was first formed, then Eve.[SUP]14 [/SUP]And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

You cannot have Paul saying that in verses 11-12 prior to addressing a cultic belief as you claim in verse 13. Paul si saying women are to be in silence BECAUSE Adam was formed first and then Eve.. and Eve was deceived which led to Adam's doubting God's words which he had heard directly from Him that led to his fall.

Nowhere in the Law does it say any such thing. That is a big clue that Paul is quoting someone else. Again, the plain sense does not make sense.

Then we see it again as to why... as saith the law as referred to by Paul.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]34 [/SUP]Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.[SUP] 36 [/SUP]What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?[SUP] 37 [/SUP]If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.[SUP]38 [/SUP]But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Paul said it. What law?

Genesis 3:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

The order is significant. It is not God-Christ-man-woman! If it were, this might be a slam-dunk argument. However, the terms are singular, which suggests the context of marriage, not the assembly.

I would say this particular law is about everything.....not just in marriage.

1 Corinthians 11:3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Ephesians 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Ephesians 5:[SUP]22[/SUP]Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.[SUP] 23 [/SUP]For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

As I noted earlier, and have done so many times, a careful reading of Genesis 3 will reveal that this is not a command at all. It is a statement of consequence... what will happen, not what must happen. As it is neither a curse nor a command, it does not support either 1 Cor. 14 or 1 Tim 2. in the complementarian view. Actually, the complementarian view is a perfect fulfillment of the consequence... men attempting to rule over women (and not always in a righteous way, as earlier comments demonstrate). Consider this if you still don't accept my view: why would God, Who is the essence of wisdom, righteousness and holiness, install now-sinful man as the head over woman?

Then explain what Paul was talking about then for he referred to the silence and subjection as of the law and as a commandment from the Lord. I am not the one saying it. Paul said it.... the scriptures says it.. therefore God has said it.

 

[Zen]

1 Timothy 2:[SUP]11[/SUP]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

I am genuinely curious what would have happened if those women would have told him to shut up and not accepted this authority and command.

Would he have physically ejected them from the church on to the street? Or do you think he would bow to their demands and let them teach?

Or do you think one of the women would have asked for the men of the congregation to take him out back and beat him up?

 

[kaylagrl]

i love kaylagrl shes cool one of my favorites here................. zen you sound like a bitter virgin im sorry why are you hating women????????? this is pure craziness this topic..............

​Ahh you're one of my favs too,and your avatar.

 

[Muzungu256]

​Ahh you're one of my favs too,and your avatar.

thanks .............. the avatar is very profound and symbolic, its a thinking sloth its symbolic of me i think a lot and im lazy hahaha........ i got a lot to learn from proverbs, SLUGGARD i am.

 

[kaylagrl]

we still talking about this? lol

No one has brought cookies yet and you're a woman soooo... snap to it girlie.

 

[Denadii]

It is polite to stick to the OP anyway.



Then take everything in scripture on the context of that topic, because Paul is not addressing cultic beliefs.

1 Timothy 2:[SUP]11[/SUP]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.[SUP]13 [/SUP]For Adam was first formed, then Eve.[SUP]14 [/SUP]And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

You cannot have Paul saying that in verses 11-12 prior to addressing a cultic belief as you claim in verse 13. Paul si saying women are to be in silence BECAUSE Adam was formed first and then Eve.. and Eve was deceived which led to Adam's doubting God's words which he had heard directly from Him that led to his fall.



Then we see it again as to why... as saith the law as referred to by Paul.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]34 [/SUP]Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.[SUP] 36 [/SUP]What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?[SUP] 37 [/SUP]If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.[SUP]38 [/SUP]But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Paul said it. What law?

Genesis 3:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.



I would say this particular law is about everything.....not just in marriage.

1 Corinthians 11:3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Ephesians 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Ephesians 5:[SUP]22[/SUP]Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.[SUP] 23 [/SUP]For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.



Then explain what Paul was talking about then for he referred to the silence and subjection as of the law and as a commandment from the Lord. I am not the one saying it. Paul said it.... the scriptures says it.. therefore God has said it.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]34 [/SUP]Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. As also saith the Law...I agree with Paul...What law? The Torah? Ok

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

So Paul answered the 'question' What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?[SUP] 37 [/SUP]If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.[SUP]38 [/SUP]But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

"Are you the only one God talks to?" He asked. God told us "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. And he told you that we must follow the law? Really?" Paul told the man flat out that he was wrong about women submitting to their men.

 

[Denadii]

No one has brought cookies yet and you're a woman soooo... snap to it girlie.

Chocolate chip with raisins! A cookie is just not a cookie without raisins. LOL

 

[Muzungu256]

so can someone tell me what paul really meant by that women cant speak in church????????? it would make no sense if its 100% quiet because how can you prophecy pray and sing in church????????? doesnt sound normal anymore.
maybe he meant that some women were disruptive in church of corinth talking about worldly stuff?????? and that they shouldnt be pastors??? iono

 

[Denadii]

I am genuinely curious what would have happened if those women would have told him to shut up and not accepted this authority and command.

Would he have physically ejected them from the church on to the street? Or do you think he would bow to their demands and let them teach?

Or do you think one of the women would have asked for the men of the congregation to take him out back and beat him up?

Yeah What would have happened if Paul had said this line of reasoning was completely wrong? Oh Right! He did say that.

 

[Denadii]

so can someone tell me what paul really meant by that women cant speak in church????????? it would make no sense if its 100% quiet because how can you prophecy pray and sing in church????????? doesnt sound normal anymore.
maybe he meant that some women were disruptive in church of corinth talking about worldly stuff?????? and that they shouldnt be pastors??? iono

Paul did not say that my friend. Read the verses closely. You will see.

 

[Enow]

I am genuinely curious what would have happened if those women would have told him to shut up and not accepted this authority and command.

Would he have physically ejected them from the church on to the street? Or do you think he would bow to their demands and let them teach?

Or do you think one of the women would have asked for the men of the congregation to take him out back and beat him up?

It would not happen back in those days before women were given the right to vote, right?

Now it would be interesting if Paul came back today to see what he would do, but we can get a clue when he said.. if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

I bet ya when women are teaching and preaching in churches, they are also berating the men for the women having to do everything too. It is not only the women breaking the commandment when that happens, the men are too.

I believe if Paul says he would not suffer a woman to preach and the men of that church defends the women for doing so, Paul would just leave the church. It is a reasonable assumption based on his words that he would do that.

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:[SUP]2 [/SUP]And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.[SUP]3 [/SUP]But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

 

[Muzungu256]

Paul did not say that my friend. Read the verses closely. You will see.

i read em.......... can u just answer i have read and wondered it many times fr fr bro

 

[proverbs35]

Some women do need to be silent though

That's true, but that also applies to men too.

Ec 3:1,7 says it best.

There is a time for everything and a season for every activity under the heavens (Ec 3:1) a time to be silent and a time to speak (v.7)

 

[kaylagrl]

I am genuinely curious what would have happened if those women would have told him to shut up and not accepted this authority and command.

Would he have physically ejected them from the church on to the street? Or do you think he would bow to their demands and let them teach?

Or do you think one of the women would have asked for the men of the congregation to take him out back and beat him up?

Or do you think one of the women would have asked for the men of the congregation to take him out back and beat him up?

That suggestion was because of your belief that a woman needs to be slapped. You dont get to put words in my mouth.

 

[Denadii]

It would not happen back in those days before women were given the right to vote, right?

Now it would be interesting if Paul came back today to see what he would do, but we can get a clue when he said.. if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

I bet ya when women are teaching and preaching in churches, they are also berating the men for the women having to do everything too. It is not only the women breaking the commandment when that happens, the men are too.

I believe if Paul says he would not suffer a woman to preach and the men of that church defends the women for doing so, Paul would just leave the church. It is a reasonable assumption based on his words that he would do that.

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:[SUP]2 [/SUP]And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.[SUP]3 [/SUP]But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

Look up Billye Brim on Youtube and listen to her. She preaches right, with power and the blessing of God...And she does not engage in man bashing. And she is not against scripture in her role as a preacher. Oh BTW....She is the one called to preach and her hugsband backs her up In her marriage it lines up. She submits to her husband....Because she wants to.

 

[plainguy]

I am genuinely curious what would have happened if those women would have told him to shut up and not accepted this authority and command.

Would he have physically ejected them from the church on to the street? Or do you think he would bow to their demands and let them teach?

Or do you think one of the women would have asked for the men of the congregation to take him out back and beat him up?

Darn ... I hate multiple choice questions

 

[Rachmiel]

It would not happen back in those days before women were given the right to vote, right?

Now it would be interesting if Paul came back today to see what he would do, but we can get a clue when he said.. if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

I bet ya when women are teaching and preaching in churches, they are also berating the men for the women having to do everything too. It is not only the women breaking the commandment when that happens, the men are too.

I believe if Paul says he would not suffer a woman to preach and the men of that church defends the women for doing so, Paul would just leave the church. It is a reasonable assumption based on his words that he would do that.

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:[SUP]2 [/SUP]And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.[SUP]3 [/SUP]But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

"I bet ya when women are teaching and preaching in churches, they are also berating the men for the women having to do everything too."

Ha ha you just can't win today, can you?
A society run by women and children like Isaiah says
And we are seeing the fruits of it
Zen is not totally wrong
That aside good comment
I like the scripture you put from Paul
It's an echo of wise Solomon
You can't chasten these crazy feminists and maneaters
I mean you can, but it's not going to lead to anything positively
And once again the hand of God shows agreement between two totally different men
It is hard to miss the lifestyle chasm between the two, love that Bible irony
The best advice is like the virgin Paul and the womanizer Solomon say
Withdraw, run, live in the desert, and flee!

 

[Denadii]

i read em.......... can u just answer i have read and wondered it many times fr fr bro

Of course dear. Look at post #467 I put it there. Nah. I'll just cut an paste it here for you.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]34 [/SUP]Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. As also saith the Law...I agree with Paul...What law? The Torah? Ok

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

So Paul answered the 'question' What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?[SUP] 37 [/SUP]If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.[SUP]38 [/SUP]But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

"Are you the only one God talks to?" He asked. God told us "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. And he told you that we must follow the law? Really?" Paul told the man flat out that he was wrong about women submitting to their men.

 

[Zi]

True although her husband has been dead for about 20 years.

Look up Billye Brim on Youtube and listen to her. She preaches right, with power and the blessing of God...And she does not engage in man bashing. And she is not against scripture in her role as a preacher. Oh BTW....She is the one called to preach and her hugsband backs her up In her marriage it lines up. She submits to her husband....Because she wants to.