The Rapture

[KJV1611]

That is what the whole rapture idea is built upon. How the harvests worked in the Old Testament. You had the first fruits, the main harvest and then the gleaning.

There is also a firstfruits of the dead.

1 Corinthians: 15. 20. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. - Bible Offline

Notice it says of them that SLEPT... PAST TENSE.

 

[J7]

There is also a firstfruits of the dead.

1 Corinthians: 15. 20. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. - Bible Offline

Notice it says of them that SLEPT... PAST TENSE.

I think it means that Christ is the first of those resurrected the others were resurrected after him

 

[heartofdavid]

Two TYPES, yes. two EVENTS, no. The 1st resurrection (resurrection of life) at Christ's resurrection was the FIRSTFRUITS, the resurrection of life (1st resurrection) when Jesus returns will be the main harvest.

There are 4 parts to harvest.

First fruits,main,corners,and gleaners.

I believe rev 14 is corners and gleaners.

Note that angels,in rev 14 preach the gospel,not man. (indicating ,in my opinion there are no preachers left)

 

[J7]

There are 4 parts to harvest.

First fruits,main,corners,and gleaners.

I believe rev 14 is corners and gleaners.

Note that angels,in rev 14 preach the gospel,not man. (indicating ,in my opinion there are no preachers left)

Is there an Old Testament reference for this?

 

[heartofdavid]

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Revelation 20 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Firstfruits = Christ and those of the OT,the patriarchs

Main= The rapture of 1 thes 4

Corners and gleaners= the last 2 parts.(of which the 144k are the firstfruits) they are firstfruit Jews,but are in the last harvest.

Thus the last are first (gentiles) and the first (Jews) are last.

Jesus' first miracle at the wedding they told him "you saved the best for last".

And of course his ministry of his people of earth begins and ends at a wedding.

 

[KJV1611]

There are 4 parts to harvest.

First fruits,main,corners,and gleaners.

I believe rev 14 is corners and gleaners.

Note that angels,in rev 14 preach the gospel,not man. (indicating ,in my opinion there are no preachers left)

It could be that there are 4 harvests but I haven't seen that in the bible YET. If you can verify 4 resurrection, let us know.

 

[heartofdavid]

Is there an Old Testament reference for this?

lev 23;22 [FONT=&quot]And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot] your God.[/FONT]

 

[heartofdavid]

It could be that there are 4 harvests but I haven't seen that in the bible YET. If you can verify 4 resurrection, let us know.

I doubt if there are four resurrections.

But four harvests......the bible teaches it. I am just a reporter.

 

[heartofdavid]

Also,as far as gleaners,ruth was a gentile gleaner,working IN THE MAIN HARVSET, alongside Jewish men and women.

Ruth is key in understanding the bride,the kinsman redeemer,the land re deemed,and the kinsman that Boaz addressed that refused to redeem the gentile bride,Ruth.

A legal loop hole was needed for Ruth to be part of the inheritance.

WOAH,DEEP,DEEP,DEEP

 

[heartofdavid]

There is an earthly and spiritual version of everything in the bible... Can you see this? Those men were full of NEW WINE, the mokers were talking about EARTHLY wine. Peter didn't dispute them because he KNEW that God prophesied through them. Peter knew those men were full of spiritual NEW WINE, that's why he didn't dispute it.

You know,there is a thread in you,that is searching. I see it in a few of your posts.

I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer,but I think if you open up a bit that your deal COULD be wrong,and linger a bit on what we are telling you,you will see a whole new arena open up to you.

 

[KJV1611]

You know,there is a thread in you,that is searching. I see it in a few of your posts.

I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer,but I think if you open up a bit that your deal COULD be wrong,and linger a bit on what we are telling you,you will see a whole new arena open up to you.

Back at you.

 

[Bogadile]

The problem I have with saying that there is one week left of Daniel's is that now God is just waiting for that last 7 year tribulation for literally 2000 years, while the generation that rejected Christ and crucified Him is long gone. Why wait 2000 years? There is no reason for the gap within the text, it has to be added/invented to the text.

 

[VCO]

So you don't think "till the son of man be come" is talking about the 1st second coming?

Matthew 10:23 KJV
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Good Question, but I suspect you approached trying to understand that scripture with an erroneous Presupposition. Here is what I hear in that verse.


That verse is basically Talking about GOD's ongoing LOVE for Israel, wanting them to HEAR THE TRUTH. And therefore HE is describing the fact that He wants an ONGOING MISSIONARY EFFORT to Reach ISRAEL, throughout the ENTIRE CHURCH AGE. The phrase, "till the Son of man be come" is clearly a reference to the Son of Man coming for HIS BRIDE, at the end of the Church Age. OBVIOUSLY, according to your question verse, even then the work of Evangelizing ISRAEL, will not be finished. HENCE, the absolute Necessity for the TWO WITNESSES of Revelation and the 144,000 to come and FINISH THE WORK. And will they finish the Missionary Work in ISRAEL? Absolutely, with the help of the LORD!

Romans 11:25-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] So that you will not be conceited, brothers, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery: A partial hardening has come to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The Liberator will come from Zion; He will turn away godlessness from Jacob.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And this will be My covenant with them when I take away their sins.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Regarding the gospel, they are enemies for your advantage, but regarding election, they are loved because of the patriarchs,
[SUP]29 [/SUP] since God’s gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.

The apostles were to continue their ministries, moving from place to place. But even though they moved out for the Lord, they would not be able to reach all the cities of Israel before the Son of Man would come.
These words of the Lord probably had an application beyond His own lifetime. What was proclaimed here was more fully demonstrated in the apostles' lives after the day of Pentecost (Acts 2) in the spread of the gospel in the church (e.g., Acts 4:1-13; 5:17-18, 40; 7:54-60). But these words will find their fullest manifestation in the days of the Tribulation when the gospel will be carried throughout the entire world before Jesus Christ returns in power and glory to establish His kingdom on the earth (Matt. 24:14).


The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

Persecution is never to be sought or endured for its own sake; nor should we intentionally bring it on ourselves, supposedly for Christ's sake. We have no right to provoke animosity or ridicule. And Christ here urges escaping persecution when doing so is expedient and possible. We are not obligated to stay in a place of opposition and danger until we are killed, or even imprisoned. Whenever they persecute you in this city, Jesus says, flee to the next.
That is the pattern Paul followed throughout his ministry (see Acts 12-14, 17). When persecution became so severe in one place that he could no longer minister effectively, he left and went to another. He was not afraid of persecution, and many times he was severely beaten before he left a city. At least once he was stoned and left for dead. But he did not try to test the limits of the opposition. He endured whatever ridicule, reviling, beatings, and imprisonment were necessary while he ministered. But he left a place when his effectiveness there ceased.
That is the pattern that every faithful minister and missionary is to follow until the Son of Man comes. Even during the Great Tribulation, Christ's faithful 144,000 Jewish people will preach all over the world and keep moving from place to place as they are persecuted and afflicted.

MacArthur New Testament Commentary, The - MacArthur New Testament Commentary – Matthew 8-15.

 

[VCO]

The problem I have with saying that there is one week left of Daniel's is that now God is just waiting for that last 7 year tribulation for literally 2000 years, while the generation that rejected Christ and crucified Him is long gone. Why wait 2000 years? There is no reason for the gap within the text, it has to be added/invented to the text.

Romans 11:25-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] So that you will not be conceited, brothers, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery: A partial hardening has come to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The Liberator will come from Zion; He will turn away godlessness from Jacob.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And this will be My covenant with them when I take away their sins.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Regarding the gospel, they are enemies for your advantage, but regarding election, they are loved because of the patriarchs,
[SUP]29 [/SUP] since God’s gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.

 

[KJV1611]

Good Question, but I suspect you approached trying to understand that scripture with an erroneous Presupposition. Here is what I hear in that verse.


That verse is basically Talking about GOD's ongoing LOVE for Israel, wanting them to HEAR THE TRUTH. And therefore HE is describing the fact that He wants an ONGOING MISSIONARY EFFORT to Reach ISRAEL, throughout the ENTIRE CHURCH AGE. The phrase, "till the Son of man be come" is clearly a reference to the Son of Man coming for HIS BRIDE, at the end of the Church Age. OBVIOUSLY, according to your question verse, even then the work of Evangelizing ISRAEL, will not be finished. HENCE, the absolute Necessity for the TWO WITNESSES of Revelation and the 144,000 to come and FINISH THE WORK. And will they finish the Missionary Work in ISRAEL? Absolutely, with the help of the LORD!

Romans 11:25-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] So that you will not be conceited, brothers, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery: A partial hardening has come to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The Liberator will come from Zion; He will turn away godlessness from Jacob.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And this will be My covenant with them when I take away their sins.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Regarding the gospel, they are enemies for your advantage, but regarding election, they are loved because of the patriarchs,
[SUP]29 [/SUP] since God’s gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.

Jesus was talking to the DISCIPLES... are they coming back in the "7 year tribulation" to preach to Israel again?

 

[KJV1611]

Romans 11:25-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] So that you will not be conceited, brothers, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery: A partial hardening has come to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The Liberator will come from Zion; He will turn away godlessness from Jacob.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And this will be My covenant with them when I take away their sins.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Regarding the gospel, they are enemies for your advantage, but regarding election, they are loved because of the patriarchs,
[SUP]29 [/SUP] since God’s gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.

You're never going to understand anything about the bible until you understand who the Israel of God is... they are not the children of the flesh.

 

[VCO]

Where does the bible say the great tribulation is for 3 1/2 years? Just one verse will be enough.

The GREAT TRIBULATION, in my includes every minute of the DECEPTIVE PEACE TREATY (COVENANT) with Israel and her enemies, which will be Orchestrated by the Roman Prince to come (The Dicator who takes over the Revived Roman Empire.)

I know many do not count the first 3.5 years, because He appears to be reigning peacefully. I count them, because is not the Deception part of the over-all EVIL? In Radical Islamic teachings, they say "You are a hero for ALLAH, if you can deceive your enemy into lowering his guard, so that you can defeat him." IS NOT THE ENTIRE PROCESS EVIL?

Ultimately Israel and Jerusalem will be over-ran and Defeated within days of the Second Coming of Christ:

Zechariah 14:2-5 (NIV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

I repeat, "IS NOT THE ENTIRE PROCESS EVIL"; from the time they were planning the ATTACK, thru every battlefield, to the ransacking and raping, IN JERUSALEM? IS THAT NOT ALL OF THAT PART OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION, as well as GOD's bowls of Wrath, AND Trumpet Judgements, AND PLAGUES?

 

[VCO]

Jesus was talking to the DISCIPLES... are they coming back in the "7 year tribulation" to preach to Israel again?

Now I know you know better than that. You are REALLY GRASPING AT STRAWS. JUST LIKE THE LAW WAS WRITTEN FOR ALL TIME, TO MAKE PEOPLE AWARE OF SIN; SO IS THE GOSPELS WRITTEN FOR ALL TIME SO THAT ALL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO KNOW HIM, WHO PAID FOR OUR SINS. Do we not QUOTE Jesus and His Apostles when we witness to anyone?


1 Corinthians 11:1 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.

 

[J7]

Your eagle looks like he is grasping at straws too

 

[Bogadile]

Your eagle looks like he is grasping at straws too