Are you RIGHTEOUS?

[Grandpa]

Galatians 3:3 [FONT=&quot]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

The obvious answer to this question is no, you are not perfected by your flesh, your work, your understanding, your strength.

You are perfected by Christ through the Ministration of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:5 [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.


Is work necessary? Well, it takes a lot of work to understand that no amount of work will make a person Righteous before God. How will you know unless you try?

Romans 10:3 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.


When you are all done with all your work and you find out that it didn't make you righteous what will you do?


[/FONT]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

The obvious answer to this question is no, you are not perfected by your flesh, your work, your understanding, your strength.

You are perfected by Christ through the Ministration of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.


Is work necessary? Well, it takes a lot of work to understand that no amount of work will make a person Righteous before God. How will you know unless you try?

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.


When you are all done with all your work and you find out that it didn't make you righteous what will you do?

The jews killed jesus because he told them that very thing, and they Got mad!

 

[Grandpa]

The jews killed jesus because he told them that very thing, and they Got mad!

People who are working very hard and think that is what makes them righteous get mad when they are told that is not the way of Righteousness.

To them, that would be "easy-believism" or "hyper-grace" or whatever other negative moniker they can think of.


Are you saying we can just break any law we want? sound familiar??? Are we just to do nothing?

Have you ever tried to do nothing? How long were you able? lol

 

[Grace777x70]

People who are working very hard and think that is what makes them righteous get mad when they are told that is not the way of Righteousness.

To them, that would be "easy-believism" or "hyper-grace" or whatever other negative moniker they can think of.


Are you saying we can just break any law we want? sound familiar??? Are we just to do nothing?

Have you ever tried to do nothing? How long were you able? lol

Well said!

Because we believe that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ alone and we don't live by the Old Covenant of keeping the 10 commandments or the law itself - does this mean we can murder someone now or steal from them? Does this mean we don't do any good works for others?

It's obvious that this kind of a belief system that would say these types of things has very little knowledge of the New Covenant. - very little knowledge of the life of Christ that is manifested as the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus, the law of love, the law of faith, the law of Christ Himself in us - the new creation in Christ.

It is a very little understanding of the new creation in Christ - joined as one spirit with Him in union forever.

But the Lord is changing all of this and for those with eyes to see and ears to hear - He is now in these last days speaking of His Son - and all that His Son has already done for us in His finished work.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

People who are working very hard and think that is what makes them righteous get mad when they are told that is not the way of Righteousness.

To them, that would be "easy-believism" or "hyper-grace" or whatever other negative moniker they can think of.


Are you saying we can just break any law we want? sound familiar??? Are we just to do nothing?

Have you ever tried to do nothing? How long were you able? lol

The sad part is they really believe they are right, That is why they get so mad. Thats why they resort to all kinds of name calling, making up things and saying this is what the other group believes, When backed to a corner with a question they can not answer, they deflect or refuse to answer.

 

[UnderGrace]

The reality is we ARE right and they believe they are right, big difference.

I think we, those who know we are eternally saved and works are not part of salvation, become frustrated and angry too.

However, if we do, it is because we just want them to see the victory in Christ.

People working to keep salvation, gain salvation or whatever works the are espousing... in my experience.... just want to bring everyone under that same yoke to validate their own efforts.

Our teaching denies their self-efforts that is why they become so agitated.

This is what happens when a person puts self into the gospel, that is why we are told to deny self, not an easy thing to do for people with big egos (whoever they may be on this planet? ).

The sad part is they really believe they are right, That is why they get so mad. Thats why they resort to all kinds of name calling, making up things and saying this is what the other group believes, When backed to a corner with a question they can not answer, they deflect or refuse to answer.

 

[FranC]

amen brother

The bible says born again christians will work, (not might work) they are obedient (not might be) They have faith (not maybe they have faith) and because of this faith, they work, because you do things for a person you trust.

Ok.

So are you saying WORKS ARE NECESSARY?

Or are you still arguing about it??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok.

So are you saying WORKS ARE NECESSARY?

Or are you still arguing about it??

when have I said they were not necessary, except for gaining ones salvation.

I was just stating what the bible says about those of true faith.

 

[FranC]

The reality is we ARE right and they believe they are right, big difference.

I think we, those who know we are eternally saved and works are not part of salvation, become frustrated and angry too.

However, if we do, it is because we just want them to see the victory in Christ.

People working to keep salvation, gain salvation or whatever works the are espousing... in my experience.... just want to bring everyone under that same yoke to validate their own efforts.

Our teaching denies their self-efforts that is why they become so agitated.

This is what happens when a person puts self into the gospel, that is why we are told to deny self, not an easy thing to do for people with big egos (whoever they may be on this planet? ).

Do you not make any effort to serve your Lord?

Why call me Lord Lord?

He is your Savior,,,
Is He your Lord?

What's the difference between what YOU are saying and what I am saying?

Did I EVER say that works are necessary to SAVE a person?
NO.

Did I ever say that works are necessary to stay saved?
YES.

Are you a disciple of Christ?
What is a disciple??


A true disciple is committed to Christ in obedience and service.


o* Totally committed to Jesus. This means that every activity and every thing in his life are surrendered to Christ's Lordship.
Luke 14:26-27, 33


o* Demonstrates love by a servan-heart and loyalty characterized by his regular involvement in the fellowship of the local church. (1 John 1:3, Hebrews 10:24-25)


Lord, means He is your master. It means you obey what He has taught you.

YOU say you do this because you're saved.

I say we need to do this BECAUSE JESUS SAID TO.

Everybody on these threads is saved. (maybe not all)
What does that have to do with anything?

Does Jesus want you to obey HIS commands or not?

It's a simple question to which I cannot get an answer.

 

[mailmandan]

Ok.

So are you saying WORKS ARE NECESSARY?

Or are you still arguing about it??

Necessary for what? To gain and/or maintain salvation? OR to demonstrate that our faith is genuine? We SHOW our faith by our works, but we are not saved by works. If someone "claims" to have faith, yet they produce no works at all, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not genuine faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did I EVER say that works are necessary to SAVE a person?
NO.

Did I ever say that works are necessary to stay saved?
YES.

Both of these questions are equal. They say the same thing, You can not say no to one and yes to the other, you would be contradicting yourself.

Again the questions becomes, are you really saved or not, If you have to work to maintain it, Then you were never saved to begin with. In the same token, if you have to work to maintain it, You have to work to get it to begin with

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Think about it, Its like saying God pulled us out of the fire and saved us, Then gave us these list of works to do and said if you do not do them, I will throw you back into the fire.

Is this what God really does?

 

[Stephen63]

Think about it, Its like saying God pulled us out of the fire and saved us, Then gave us these list of works to do and said if you do not do them, I will throw you back into the fire.

Is this what God really does?

Isn't that what He did in the OT?

Isn't that what He did to Ananias & Sapphira?

God is the same as He always was.

He will not put up with outright rebellion.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Isn't that what He did in the OT?

Isn't that what He did to Ananias & Sapphira?

God is the same as He always was.

He will not put up with outright rebellion.

No, He did not. He showed lots of grace in the OT.

And was it not you who said in another thread you will report people who preach works are required for salvation,

yet here you are preaching works. (it takes work to obey) and obedience is works.

Are you going to report yourself to the mods, or was it all just show

 

[Stephen63]

No, He did not. He showed lots of grace in the OT.

And was it not you who said in another thread you will report people who preach works are required for salvation,

yet here you are preaching works. (it takes work to obey) and obedience is works.

Are you going to report yourself to the mods, or was it all just show

I will without malice bring this to your remembrance that I said I don't believe in works to OBTAIN salvation.

I don't like shows. That's why I don't like how you're trying to pull me into this show of yours that I want no part of.

I would ask you to refrain from playing this deceitful game before my report finger gets itchy.

Do I make myself clear?

 

[UnderGrace]

I think we have answered already... I think you just do not like the answer.

Works has nothing to do with staying saved.

The salvation that God has provided through Jesus Christ is by grace. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8,9)." Acts 15:11 says, "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved." Eternal life is not received by, attained by, or kept by a person's works, conduct or behavior. We are saved by grace through faith.

End of story!!!

Do you not make any effort to serve your Lord?

Why call me Lord Lord?

He is your Savior,,,
Is He your Lord?

What's the difference between what YOU are saying and what I am saying?

Did I EVER say that works are necessary to SAVE a person?
NO.

Did I ever say that works are necessary to stay saved?
YES.

Are you a disciple of Christ?
What is a disciple??


A true disciple is committed to Christ in obedience and service.


o* Totally committed to Jesus. This means that every activity and every thing in his life are surrendered to Christ's Lordship.
Luke 14:26-27, 33


o* Demonstrates love by a servan-heart and loyalty characterized by his regular involvement in the fellowship of the local church. (1 John 1:3, Hebrews 10:24-25)


Lord, means He is your master. It means you obey what He has taught you.

YOU say you do this because you're saved.

I say we need to do this BECAUSE JESUS SAID TO.

Everybody on these threads is saved. (maybe not all)
What does that have to do with anything?

Does Jesus want you to obey HIS commands or not?

It's a simple question to which I cannot get an answer.

 

[UnderGrace]

I just want to know one thing for all those who say that we are not eternally saved, exactly how much sin or lack of works condemns us?

The gospel teaches "paid in full" to those who have accepted His Gift of salvation.

Which sin is not paid for? That is the hard reality you cannot accept. All sins are paid for.
As well if works do not save us they do not keep us saved.

Discipleship and obedience are not about salvation. These lines keep getting blurred.

 

[UnderGrace]

It is the reason for obeying the commands that is the dispute.

I say we do not obey for salvation, plain and clear!

Do you not make any effort to serve your Lord?

Why call me Lord Lord?

He is your Savior,,,
Is He your Lord?

What's the difference between what YOU are saying and what I am saying?

Did I EVER say that works are necessary to SAVE a person?
NO.

Did I ever say that works are necessary to stay saved?
YES.

Are you a disciple of Christ?
What is a disciple??


A true disciple is committed to Christ in obedience and service.


o* Totally committed to Jesus. This means that every activity and every thing in his life are surrendered to Christ's Lordship.
Luke 14:26-27, 33


o* Demonstrates love by a servan-heart and loyalty characterized by his regular involvement in the fellowship of the local church. (1 John 1:3, Hebrews 10:24-25)


Lord, means He is your master. It means you obey what He has taught you.

YOU say you do this because you're saved.

I say we need to do this BECAUSE JESUS SAID TO.

Everybody on these threads is saved. (maybe not all)
What does that have to do with anything?

Does Jesus want you to obey HIS commands or not?

It's a simple question to which I cannot get an answer.

 

[dcontroversal]

I just want to know one thing for all those who say that we are not eternally saved, exactly how much sin or lack of works condemns us?

The gospel teaches "paid in full" to those who have accepted His Gift of salvation.

Which sin is not paid for? That is the hard reality you cannot accept. All sins are paid for.
As well if works do not save us they do not keep us saved.

Discipleship and obedience are not about salvation. These lines keep getting blurred.

AMEN......and they will continue to be blurred for lack of knowledge..........

 

[UnderGrace]

Where does it say Ananias and Sapphira went to hell?

Isn't that what He did in the OT?

Isn't that what He did to Ananias & Sapphira?

God is the same as He always was.

He will not put up with outright rebellion.