Veganism: Moral Superiority?

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Tommy379

Tommy379

Notorious Member
#181
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
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#181
The suffering of an animal, makes the meat taste better.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#186
Dec 12, 2013
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#186
idaho_miner said:
I work in a small scale lead/silver mine. All jacklegs and hand tools in climates approaching 100 degrees fahrenheit with enough humidity that you can practically drink the air. Labor doesn't get much more physical than that. Somehow I manage this with my vegan diet. 29 years old, so I would consider myself to be apart of this 'wishywashy weak dumb lazy generation' as you so eloquently put it. God gave us dominion over animals along with His permission to eat them (Genesis 9:3 if I'm not mistaken?), and even that was only after the flood in the time of Noah. Presumably, because such a flood would have wiped out the majority of plant life for a period of time, making the consumption of meat necessary for survival. Up until that point God had mandated what would be considered today a vegan or plant-based diet, as we see in Genesis 1:29.

It's interesting to note that the life spans of the figures in the Bible decrease tremendously once man begins eating meat...

As it stands now, 99% of meat produced for human consumption is done so under conditions that even the most obstinate meat eaters regard as cruel when presented with video footage. To me this calls to mind Proverbs 12:10. Knowing that this is where your meat comes from, any time you pay for it be it eggs, fish, hamburger bacon, you are directly contributing to this unnecessary suffering. I can't imagine that if Jesus were to return tomorrow and saw the manner in which we care for God's creatures that he would approve with how we as a society have decided to exercise our 'dominion'.
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What....you don't think he can see right now? Hmmmm!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#187
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#187
idaho_miner said:
Of course plant's don't have feelings. While it's true that they might react to light or touch in different ways, they don't posses a central nervous system. .
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For the record.....plants grown next to music exhibit the following...

If next to Bach, Beethoven or classical music they thrive.....

If next to heavy metal they die.......
 
I

idaho_miner

Guest
#189
#189
dcontroversal said:
What....you don't think he can see right now? Hmmmm!
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Not sure what your point is. If you need to use the fact that the Son of God himself hasn't personally came up to you and been like, 'Yea... you get that this isn't right?' to justify how much you like bacon tho, despite how much the manner in which it is produced it modern society violates the teachings of the bible and the manner of care and respect we are meant to show animals, I think you need to look a little deeper into your core Christian values.

I won't even directly address your non-sequitur about plants and music, as we have already addressed, the majority of plants grown are grown to feed 59 billion land animals, not 7 billion humans.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#190
Sep 4, 2013
30,200
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#190
What it really is is people trying to feel morally superior about themselves........just as God gave us all the plants n such to eat, He gave us the animals as well.........and the fishies..........

You (everyone) can choose what they want to restrict their dietary intake to, but don't pretend one is morally superior than the other. Self aggrandizing doesn't suit folks well......





idaho_miner said:
Of course plant's don't have feelings. While it's true that they might react to light or touch in different ways, they don't posses a central nervous system. This argument against veganism (if that's even what you're attempting) is idiotic on 2 levels. Firstly, pulling a carrot out of the ground and cutting the tail off a dog are going to produce two very different reactions. That is because one is a sentient being with intelligence (less than say, a pig, but quantifiable), a will to live, and an aversion to pain....and the other is a carrot.

Secondly, if you really are concerned about plants feeling pain, the majority of plants grown are used to feed the animals bred for human consumption. So if that is the concern, you're essentially doubling the amount of suffering. Or you could just use a modicum of critical thinking and reasoning and acknowledge that a carrot wont be screaming and attempting to escape if you slice into it with a knife. Same can't be said for an animal though.

It really is an important distinction to make, and maybe I don't understand your point really. If we have to eat something (and we do, that is a fact) why wouldn't we choose the path of least harm as compassionate Christians?

To answer your question, I believe it is always the better choice from a moral perspective to avoid unnecessary pain and suffering to another living being. It's unnecessary to eat meat, eating meat causes unnecessary pain and suffering to other living beings, therefore yes veganism is inherently and objectively morally superior (based on those qualifications).

It's the same as saying it is morally superior to hug a dog than to torture a dog (or pay someone else to do the torturing). Just replace dog with pig, cow, chicken, lamb to fit your own current dietary choices.
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tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#191
Mar 13, 2014
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#191
I thank God that I'm not a vegan. It must be terrible to take all the joy out of eating. Mind as well skip the dandelion greens and tofu and just take a protein pill and call it good. Can wash it down with some apple cider vinegar (with mother).
 
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I

idaho_miner

Guest
#193
#193
p_rehbein said:
What it really is is people trying to feel morally superior about themselves........just as God gave us all the plants n such to eat, He gave us the animals as well.........and the fishies..........

You (everyone) can choose what they want to restrict their dietary intake to, but don't pretend one is morally superior than the other. Self aggrandizing doesn't suit folks well......
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Contrary to what you're insinuating, I'm not vegan for the moral superiority. Vegan for the animals, the environment, and my own health maybe. Their is nothing self-aggrandizing about choosing compassion. It's the opposite. Jesus wasn't self-aggrandizing when he said to 'do unto others...' If you feel guilty about contributing to the needless torture and suffering of animals that has evolved in the last 100 years, that's your own conscious. I didn't have problems with 'eating animals' until we started torturing and exploiting them all along the way, which goes against God's will. That started around the 1950's and 60s and has gotten worse and worse on a global scale every year. If you aren't part of that solution, you are part of the problem. It's gotten to the point that that really is no middle ground, unless maybe you have your own little farm... but that's certainly not sustainable on a global level.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#194
Sep 4, 2013
30,200
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#194
I don't feel guilty about anything...........all that was dealt with long ago......Christ took care of all of that. Your attempt to link Christ to veganism falls flat in the face of Scripture.......Your upset about the needless torture of animals.......but have no concern for the needless torture of plants and vegetables given the way most of them are harvested.

Do as you wish.........just don't try to insist that one is morally superior than the other.........that is a lie.

idaho_miner said:
Contrary to what you're insinuating, I'm not vegan for the moral superiority. Vegan for the animals, the environment, and my own health maybe. Their is nothing self-aggrandizing about choosing compassion. It's the opposite. Jesus wasn't self-aggrandizing when he said to 'do unto others...' If you feel guilty about contributing to the needless torture and suffering of animals that has evolved in the last 100 years, that's your own conscious. I didn't have problems with 'eating animals' until we started torturing and exploiting them all along the way, which goes against God's will. That started around the 1950's and 60s and has gotten worse and worse on a global scale every year. If you aren't part of that solution, you are part of the problem. It's gotten to the point that that really is no middle ground, unless maybe you have your own little farm... but that's certainly not sustainable on a global level.
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Tommy379

Tommy379

Notorious Member
#195
Jan 12, 2016
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#195
Did someone write "bacon?"
I love bacon.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#196
Sep 4, 2013
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#196
Genesis 9:3 - Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

Matthew 15:11 - Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

1 Corinthians 8:8 - But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

Romans 14:3 - Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Romans 14:2 - For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.


1 Corinthians 10:31 - Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.


 
I

idaho_miner

Guest
#198
#198
p_rehbein said:
I don't feel guilty about anything...........all that was dealt with long ago......Christ took care of all of that. Your attempt to link Christ to veganism falls flat in the face of Scripture.......Your upset about the needless torture of animals.......but have no concern for the needless torture of plants and vegetables given the way most of them are harvested.

Do as you wish.........just don't try to insist that one is morally superior than the other.........that is a lie.
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Don't get how you're still not connecting that most plants are used to feed animals so to not eat animals eliminates the greatest contributor to 'plant suffering' which.... smh is so not a thing...

Clearly you need to feel better about yourself. Great job, buddy. I know your personal choices cause needless pain and suffering, not to mention wreck the environment that I would like my grandchildren to have... but it's okay. You do you. You're just as superior. If anything, your more superior, because you don't waste time thinking about things like where my grandchildren are going to live. The Bible says it's okay and Jesus hasn't come back to make any amendments, so it's perfectly fine to keep doing your thing. GOLD STAR.
 
Tommy379

Tommy379

Notorious Member
#199
Jan 12, 2016
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#199
I like how, even before the flood, God favored Abel's offerings of fat portions.

Genesis 4:4
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#200
Mar 13, 2014
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#200
idaho_miner said:
Don't get how you're still not connecting that most plants are used to feed animals so to not eat animals eliminates the greatest contributor to 'plant suffering' which.... smh is so not a thing...

Clearly you need to feel better about yourself. Great job, buddy. I know your personal choices cause needless pain and suffering, not to mention wreck the environment that I would like my grandchildren to have... but it's okay. You do you. You're just as superior. If anything, your more superior, because you don't waste time thinking about things like where my grandchildren are going to live. The Bible says it's okay and Jesus hasn't come back to make any amendments, so it's perfectly fine to keep doing your thing. GOLD STAR.
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Actually, this member is quite humble. Regarding grandchildren, each generation has its own particular set of challenges.
 
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