The Trinity Discussion

[Zmouth]

Forgery is too strong word, its in Latin, but in no Greek manuscript. Erasmus took several places from Latin, not just this one.

The trinity does not fall with 1J 5:7

That's true, it doesn't fall; it is consumed.

 

[notbythesword]

Forgery is too strong word, its in Latin, but in no Greek manuscript. Erasmus took several places from Latin, not just this one.

The trinity does not fall with 1J 5:7

I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, would give you a spirit, of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him…Ephesians 1:17

 

[resurrection33]

Any one care to share their thoughts, also from the word of why you believe that the trinity is the right way to view God? or even if you do not believe it and care to say why.
I myself do not believe the doctrine of the trinity, but I am not against those that do, nor do I believe it's dependent on a person's salvation.

The way I see it, and I believe my church holds the same view, is that there is one God who serves in three different capacities - Father, Son, and Holy Ghost - as a man can simultaneously be a father, husband, son, lawyer, baseball coach, and whatever else. This topic comes up frequently and we have these huge debates.

 

[trofimus]

I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, would give you a spirit, of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him…Ephesians 1:17

Thanks.

And now, you can read other verses about Trinity...

 

[trofimus]

That's true, it doesn't fall; it is consumed.

Thats why all churches left the idea of Trinity, immediatelly after the discovery of better manuscripts, right?

Oh, wait... no church changed this even a little bit... maybe there are other verses !?

 

[Zmouth]

Thats why all churches left the idea of Trinity, immediatelly after the discovery of better manuscripts, right?

Oh, wait... no church changed this even a little bit... maybe there are other verses !?

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. James 2:19


Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Phil 2:12

 

[trofimus]

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. James 2:19


Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Phil 2:12

Exactly.

And? Its not the whole New Testament.

 

[jaybird88]

hHopefully these verses will offer clarity for you regarding this.

Matthew 16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

those passages repeat what John 20:31 says. but so many want to add on to those scriptures, apparently they know better than the divine inspired word.

 

[trofimus]

those passages repeat what John 20:31 says. but so many want to add on to those scriptures, apparently they know better than the divine inspired word.

OK, lets add.

----

"Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood." (Acts 20:28)

"...Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men."
(Phil 2:5-6)

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." (Col 2:9)

"But about the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever'." (Heb 1:8)

----

I am sorry.

 

[jaybird88]

OK, lets add.

----

"Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood." (Acts 20:28)

"...Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men."
(Phil 2:5-6)

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." (Col 2:9)

"But about the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever'." (Heb 1:8)

----

I am sorry.

9
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

 

[trofimus]

9
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

So, you admit that Christ is God?

 

[Meggido]

Any one care to share their thoughts, also from the word of why you believe that the trinity is the right way to view God? or even if you do not believe it and care to say why.
I myself do not believe the doctrine of the trinity, but I am not against those that do, nor do I believe it's dependent on a person's salvation.

Check out the book of Revelation and you will see a demonic trinity...

Satan
The Beast
the False Prophet

Satan counterfeits anything of God....

So what he is counterfeiting is God in this way

Satan=God
The Beast=Jesus
the False Prophet=The Holy Spirit

 

[valiant]

9
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

As God He was coequal with the Father, as Man God was His God.

 

[valiant]

those passages repeat what John 20:31 says. but so many want to add on to those scriptures, apparently they know better than the divine inspired word.

And John 20.31 with 20.28 says that He was God the Son. THAT is the inspired word.

 

[DustyRhodes]

Trinity…..1 john 5
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And there are three that bear witness on earth:[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]b[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

I guess it depends if you believe in scripture or not.
Some things may have ambiguity and are subject to
interpretation. But when it blatantly states that these
3 are one, there is no ambiguity.

 

[savedtoast]

Then you should have saved him him/her while still proclaiming the full deity of Jesus. But if Jesus is not God, there is no hope for the hungry chid -- nor for you,

Why wouldn't be there be any hope if Jesus didn't exist?

 

[jaybird88]

And John 20.31 with 20.28 says that He was God the Son. THAT is the inspired word.

sounds more like mans word added to and made equal to the inspired word.

 

[garee]

God is not a man as us.He is Eternal Spirit that uses hiuman terms to help us understand his imutible attributes .Fahter, Son. Savior, King, prince of peace etc all represent the one in the same Spirit

 

[Nehemiah6]

there is no mention of a trinity and no mention that one must believe the Son is the Most High. neither are they mentioned in the Apostles creed. if they were a requirement for salvation i would think there would be an explanation.

Do you say such things because you have been indoctrinated in a lie or because you do not find the Trinity (the triune Godhead) in the Bible. Groups such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Christadelphians, and other heterodox Unitarians deliberately misinterpret or misrepresent or misunderstand the teachings about the Godhead. But the fact remains that (1) the doctrine of the Trinity is a fundamental Bible truth, (2) no man can call Jesus "Lord" unless he also acknowledges Him as God, and (3) no man can call Jesus "Lord" expect by the revelation of the Holy Spirit.

So let us look at just one Scripture that clearly and unequivocally shows that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all ONE God, yet three Divine Persons (Matthew 28:18-20):

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

So what do we learn from this passage:

1. All power in Heaven and in earth (in the entire universe) has been given to the Lord Jesus Christ. If this is true -- and these are the recorded words of Jesus -- it automatically states that Jesus is God. So now we already have two persons in the Godhead -- God the Father and God the Son.

2. All those who believe are to be baptized in what Name (singular)? "In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost". Now there is clearly an anomaly here since "Name" is singular but three Persons are mentioned -- God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. Unless this reveals the Trinity how could it be possible.

3. "The Father" is generally a designation for God the Father in the New Testament.

4. Jesus is called "God" many times in the New Testament.

5. The Holy Spirit is also shown to be God in the New Testament.

So the only logical and reasonable conclusion from this one Scripture is that God is one, yet there are three Persons within the Godhead. Whether the human mind can comprehend this mystery is not the issue. The issue is whether the Bible reveals this, and therefore the Bible shows that your assertions and beliefs are untrue and should be rejected out of hand. If you do not believe that Jesus is God, you cannot possibly be saved, since He says that "I and the Father are one", "The one who has seen me has seen the Father", "the Father is in me and I am in the Father" and many other such statements including the one which says "Before Abraham was I AM".

 

[jaybird88]

Do you say such things because you have been indoctrinated in a lie or because you do not find the Trinity (the triune Godhead) in the Bible.

i was brought up in a mainstream church just the same as you. i say things because i strted reading the bible for myself and thinking for myself.

Groups such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Christadelphians, and other heterodox Unitarians deliberately misinterpret or misrepresent or misunderstand the teachings about the Godhead.

i have no idea what these groups teach or believe. i dont think its wise to base my beliefs on what groups of men think.

But the fact remains that (1) the doctrine of the Trinity is a fundamental Bible truth, (2) no man can call Jesus "Lord" unless he also acknowledges Him as God, and (3) no man can call Jesus "Lord" expect by the revelation of the Holy Spirit.

then why is there no explanation of it in scripture?

So let us look at just one Scripture that clearly and unequivocally shows that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all ONE God, yet three Divine Persons (Matthew 28:18-20):

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

So what do we learn from this passage:

one thing i have learned is that for some reason all the Apostles disobeyed this command and baptized in the name of the Son. why would they do that?