Not By Works

[UnderGrace]

There is that IN word again


Now it is not disbelief but it is works that need to be performed so I can stay saved?

Well if I have to do works to stay saved then I am not really saved ........I am still working for my salvation.

And you make belief a work by saying that I have to keep believing for my salvation.

If belief has not saved a person then they have not been saved.

Salvation is not a process.

Right, works are not required to solicit a declaration of right standing with God, but they are required in that the person who has a declaration of right standing with God through faith will have works on the Day of Judgment. If he doesn't, John says that person is a LIAR, and that they do not know Him and the truth is not in them.

Can you see the difference between those two ways that works are 'required' in salvation? Are you still only able to hear the argument as works are required because they earn salvation? Nobody here that I know of is saying that works earn salvation. It's only being heard that way, even though it's being thoroughly explained that works are only required in salvation because works are what people saved by faith (all by itself) do. Understand?

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted

So what happens if we no longer believe?

This implies that anyone can stop believing even though they are sealed with the Holy Spirit. You realize there is a difference between the heart of man and the mind of man?

We believe in the heart - not in the head. People can be messed up in their heads because of wrong thinking and be sick in their thinking.

This doesn't negate the work of Christ in their hearts - in their spirit where they are one spirit with the Lord. 1 Cor. 6;17

At what point does Jesus leave you and separate Himself from you? He did say that He would never leave you nor forsake you.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be in you forever. John 14:16 Is Jesus now a lair? No, a thousand times no! He is faithful to us even in the midst of our un-renewed minds.

If someone could at any time "change their believing in their heart" - then that means that Paul and all the other Christians that have gone to heaven can now as an act of their own mind choose to not believe in Christ.

It's foolishness and it is a deception from the enemy to get us "working to keep our salvation". Christ Himself is our salvation - not us.

Can any Christian that is with the Lord now in heaven choose to not believe in Him in his heart? Think this through.

No, - belief in Christ and true faith is born in the heart of man and we are then born-again and have been created a new creation in Christ - sealed with the Holy Spirit.

 

[FranC]

hm...
well said

You're replying to UnderGrace.

Did you change your mind?
In your above post you said that believers will bear good fruit.
Please don't change your mind!
This is correct. Believers that love Jesus will have good fruit to show for their love.

If you say good fruit is not necessary, how do you love God?
One goes with the other.

If you have no good fruit, it means there's something wrong.
Good fruit is anything that you do all day long when it's done for the glory of God.

 

[PHart]

ever increasing....

if your last action is sinful

after 1000 back to back good works


do you believe you go to hell for "dying in sin" ?


(not poking or prodding.... curious on your understanding)

No, it's a good question.
For the believer, it's not the sin in and of itself that can potentially forfeit salvation for them. It's the sin committed as the result of no longer trusting in the blood of Christ for forgiveness of that sin. Unbelief is what causes one to be cut out of the tree.

Not all sin is the result of unbelief. Believers sin all the time, all the while clinging tenaciously to the precious love and forgiveness of God who covers all their sin caused by weakness and ignorance and even foolishness. It is the sin that is the result of no longer trusting in the blood that God can't reach. Just like God can't reach the sin of the person who never believed (they have to start believing for God to be able to reach it with his love).

As long as the weak, but believing, person continues to believe, ALL his sinning done out of foolishness, stupidity, arrogance, and weakness is covered by Christ....because they are continuing to believe in the sacrifice that covers it. But it is when the believer stops believing in the blood that he no longer has the blood Christ to cover his sinning.

 

[FranC]

I think apples and oranges are being discused, because quite frankly, there are people here who say they are protestant while they defend and uphold Roman Catholicism as being superior. Roman Catholicism is filled with people who fall away, though they were not true believers in the first place... they were coerced into conforming on fear of punishment, and simply go through the motions to appease the demands of man while their hearts are far from God, and they have no idea what true saving faith even is.

If they weren't TRUE BELIEVERS in the first place, as you state,
WHAT are the falling away from??

 

[Sully]

If they weren't TRUE BELIEVERS in the first place, as you state,
WHAT are the falling away from??

I think you just agreed with Magenta, hope the timer ran out on deleting that post.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

You're replying to UnderGrace.

Did you change your mind?
In your above post you said that believers will bear good fruit.
Please don't change your mind!
This is correct. Believers that love Jesus will have good fruit to show for their love.

If you say good fruit is not necessary, how do you love God?
One goes with the other.

If you have no good fruit, it means there's something wrong.
Good fruit is anything that you do all day long when it's done for the glory of God.

no no, same mind


i still believe good fruits are a result of faith that isnt dead faith

^_^

i just also think its not the good fruit that redeems us

 

[NoNameMcgee]

No, it's a good question.
For the believer, it's not the sin in and of itself that can potentially forfeit salvation for them. It's the sin committed as the result of no longer trusting in the blood of Christ for forgiveness of that sin. Unbelief is what causes one to be cut out of the tree.

Not all sin is the result of unbelief. Believers sin all the time, all the while clinging tenaciously to the precious love and forgiveness of God who covers all their sin caused by weakness and ignorance and even foolishness. It is the sin that is the result of no longer trusting in the blood that God can't reach. Just like God can't reach the sin of the person who never believed (they have to start believing for God to be able to reach it with his love).

As long as the weak, but believing, person continues to believe, ALL his sinning done out of foolishness, stupidity, arrogance, and weakness is covered by Christ....because they are continuing to believe in the sacrifice that covers it. But it is when the believer stops believing in the blood that he no longer has the blood Christ to cover his sinning.

to me this sounds like youre saying

its NOT works that save

but Jesus

^_^

also makes me feel like some of these disputes are semantics based on the word "required"

 

[FranC]

For anyone


Matthew 25:1-13

25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


hm..

what would compare these 5 virgins to?
_________________________________
nonbelievers?
____________________________________
those who were luke warm and lost their salvation?
____________________________________
reprobates?

I have a reply that will interest you NNM
but it's too late now.
tomorrow.

Fran

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I have a reply that will interest you NNM
but it's too late now.
tomorrow.

Fran

lol ill keep an eye out i promise ill check tomorrow

 

[stonesoffire]

Hi Stonesoffire, 
  The questions were; Where does it say in Hebrews Chapter 4 that the 7th Day is no longer God’s Sabbath Day?
  Where does it say in Hebrews Chapter 4 that the 7th Day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?
  
Read it again all of Hebrews Chapter 4 it does not say this whatsoever.

I am happy that someone here at least wants to share God’s Word. You have quoted Heb 4:8-11. Let’s look at the whole context of the scriptures in Hebrews 4.

HEB 4
King James Bible
A Sabbath-Rest for God's People
(Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 16:22-36)

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Context: for Heb 4:9-11
· Fear that the promise being left us any of us should fall short of entering God’s rest (v1)
· The Gospel was preached to the people in the Wilderness as well as us. The Word did not profit those in the wilderness because of their unbeliefit (v2)
· For we which have believed do enter into His Rest. The people in the wilderness that did not believe God did not enter into His Rest even though works were finished from the foundation of the world (v3)
· Speaking of the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath and the last day of the creation week (Gen 2:1-3) (v4)
· God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3), those that believe enter into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest those that do not believe do not enter into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest (v5-6)
· Harden not your heart in unbelief (v7-8)
· There is a rest for the people of God (v9)
· Those that enter into God’s rest cease from works as God did v10
· We should labour to enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) faith in God’s Word (rest through believing God) v11
· The Word of God is powerful. v12

Please go back and look at the Greek meaning of the word "rest" used in Heb 4:9 its meaning is resting through keeping of a Sabbath or Sabbath observance. (I have provided Greek links below)

“There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest [SUP]4520[/SUP] to the people of God.” (NAS; Heb 4:9)
The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.” (links below)
Strong's Concordance 4520
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Strong's Greek 4520
σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath); 1. a keeping sabbath. 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

So let’s pull Hebrews 4:1-12 all together?
The context is God’s rest from the week of creation on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day of the creation week (Heb 4:1-5). Those that did not enter into God’s rest (7th Day Sabbath) did not enter in because of their unbelief and disobedience (sins) to God’s Word. The Gospel was preached unto them but they did not believe it (Heb 4:2). God did not give them His true rest (Heb 4:5-8). This is the same warning for those that disobey Him and do not follow His Word. Only those that believe and obey God’s Word enter into his 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest (Heb 4:6, 9, 10-12). So as you can see Hebrews 4:1-12are not answering the earlier questions. In fact these scriptures support and talk about God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath those that entered into God’s rest and those that did not. So the questions remain…..

Can anyone show me one bible verse that says that the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?
That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

Hope this helps.

God bless

[/QUOTE]

I don't mean this as an insult...but what you are failing to see is that this is day is the Lords Day. This period of time is about the body of Christ, not completely yet about Israel, but is fast heading there. This is the day that John said, I was in the Spirit on the Lords day. Not exactly Sunday, but it is Resurrection day. We have died with Him through His Cross, and been raised with Him in newness of life.

Born from above, baptized in Holy Spirit, and our Spirit is learning to rule body and soul. Every day is the Lords day. We are of the circumcision born again on the 8th Day (new beginnings) but now in the day of Holy Spirits work in the earth.

So flesh..natural man has died, and we rest in the body, and Spirit moves through us. Rest. Sabbath rest which our citizenship is now in heaven, though we are not yet there in body...but He is. And we will be. The ultimate rest of provision of everything for us through our Father...who delights to give us the desires of our heart.

I could go through the scriptures with you and I love to do it...but there are several words for rest in greek, and in the Hebrew many. I gave you the one that shows what our Sabbath now is.

Can you see?

if you want to observe Saturday Sabbath...go for it. But, don't make it a law for it the law is passed.

 

[UnderGrace]

They fell away from religion i.e. adhering to the Roman Church, to some other ism like atheism, agnosticism .....should I list them all?

If they weren't TRUE BELIEVERS in the first place, as you state,
WHAT are the falling away from??

 

[stonesoffire]

You're replying to UnderGrace.

Did you change your mind?
In your above post you said that believers will bear good fruit.
Please don't change your mind!
This is correct. Believers that love Jesus will have good fruit to show for their love.

If you say good fruit is not necessary, how do you love God?
One goes with the other.

If you have no good fruit, it means there's something wrong.
Good fruit is anything that you do all day long when it's done for the glory of God.

What does a tree do to bear good fruit?

 

[UnderGrace]

Amen...... God does not lie or retract His promises!!!

Originally Posted

So what happens if we no longer believe?

This implies that anyone can stop believing even though they are sealed with the Holy Spirit. You realize there is a difference between the heart of man and the mind of man?

We believe in the heart - not in the head. People can be messed up in their heads because of wrong thinking and be sick in their thinking.

This doesn't negate the work of Christ in their hearts - in their spirit where they are one spirit with the Lord. 1 Cor. 6;17

At what point does Jesus leave you and separate Himself from you? He did say that He would never leave you nor forsake you.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be in you forever. John 14:16 Is Jesus now a lair? No, a thousand times no! He is faithful to us even in the midst of our un-renewed minds.

If someone could at any time "change their believing in their heart" - then that means that Paul and all the other Christians that have gone to heaven can now as an act of their own mind choose to not believe in Christ.

It's foolishness and it is a deception from the enemy to get us "working to keep our salvation". Christ Himself is our salvation - not us.

Can any Christian that is with the Lord now in heaven choose to not believe in Him in his heart? Think this through.

No, - belief in Christ and true faith is born in the heart of man and we are then born-again and have been created a new creation in Christ - sealed with the Holy Spirit.

 

[stonesoffire]

I have several errors and am not really happy with the post....but am very tired. maybe tomorrow will try again.

 

[tourist]

I have several errors and am not really happy with the post....but am very tired. maybe tomorrow will try again.

I'm kind of tired too and will be turning in for the night soon.

 

[UnderGrace]

You have great patience to continue to seek to persuade.

I have several errors and am not really happy with the post....but am very tired. maybe tomorrow will try again.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hi Stonesoffire,
The questions were; Where does it say in Hebrews Chapter 4 that the 7th Day is no longer God’s Sabbath Day?
Where does it say in Hebrews Chapter 4 that the 7th Day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

Read it again all of Hebrews Chapter 4 it does not say this whatsoever.

I am happy that someone here at least wants to share God’s Word. You have quoted Heb 4:8-11. Let’s look at the whole context of the scriptures in Hebrews 4.

HEB 4
King James Bible
A Sabbath-Rest for God's People
(Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 16:22-36)

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Context: for Heb 4:9-11
· Fear that the promise being left us any of us should fall short of entering God’s rest (v1)
· The Gospel was preached to the people in the Wilderness as well as us. The Word did not profit those in the wilderness because of their unbeliefit (v2)
· For we which have believed do enter into His Rest. The people in the wilderness that did not believe God did not enter into His Rest even though works were finished from the foundation of the world (v3)
· Speaking of the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath and the last day of the creation week (Gen 2:1-3) (v4)
· God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3), those that believe enter into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest those that do not believe do not enter into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest (v5-6)
· Harden not your heart in unbelief (v7-8)
· There is a rest for the people of God (v9)
· Those that enter into God’s rest cease from works as God did v10
· We should labour to enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) faith in God’s Word (rest through believing God) v11
· The Word of God is powerful. v12

Please go back and look at the Greek meaning of the word "rest" used in Heb 4:9 its meaning is resting through keeping of a Sabbath or Sabbath observance. (I have provided Greek links below)

“There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest [SUP]4520[/SUP] to the people of God.” (NAS; Heb 4:9)
The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.” (links below)
Strong's Concordance 4520
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Strong's Greek 4520
σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath); 1. a keeping sabbath. 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

So let’s pull Hebrews 4:1-12 all together?
The context is God’s rest from the week of creation on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day of the creation week (Heb 4:1-5). Those that did not enter into God’s rest (7th Day Sabbath) did not enter in because of their unbelief and disobedience (sins) to God’s Word. The Gospel was preached unto them but they did not believe it (Heb 4:2). God did not give them His true rest (Heb 4:5-8). This is the same warning for those that disobey Him and do not follow His Word. Only those that believe and obey God’s Word enter into his 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest (Heb 4:6, 9, 10-12). So as you can see Hebrews 4:1-12are not answering the earlier questions. In fact these scriptures support and talk about God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath those that entered into God’s rest and those that did not. So the questions remain…..

Can anyone show me one bible verse that says that the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?
That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

Hope this helps.

God bless

I don't mean this as an insult...but what you are failing to see is that this is day is the Lords Day. This period of time is about the body of Christ, not completely yet about Israel, but is fast heading there. This is the day that John said, I was in the Spirit on the Lords day. Not exactly Sunday, but it is Resurrection day. We have died with Him through His Cross, and been raised with Him in newness of life.

Born from above, baptized in Holy Spirit, and our Spirit is learning to rule body and soul. Every day is the Lords day. We are of the circumcision born again on the 8th Day (new beginnings) but now in the day of Holy Spirits work in the earth.

So flesh..natural man has died, and we rest in the body, and Spirit moves through us. Rest. Sabbath rest which our citizenship is now in heaven, though we are not yet there in body...but He is. And we will be. The ultimate rest of provision of everything for us through our Father...who delights to give us the desires of our heart.

I could go through the scriptures with you and I love to do it...but there are several words for rest in greek, and in the Hebrew many. I have you the one that shows what our Sabbath now is.

Can you see?

Hi Friend,

There is no insult inferred all is good . This is the Word of God that I have provided you above. You can see the context above from Hebrews 4 is talking about God's 7th Day Sabbath. It says what it says. There is only one Lord's Day the the bible talks about and it is God's 7th Day Sabbath. Its found here......

Mar 2:28,
Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

There is no bible verse that says that the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?
That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

Sunday Worship is a man made tradition and teaching that has not basis in God's Word. Jesus warns us in His Word....

Mat 15:3-9,
But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou might be profited by me; And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draws nigh unto me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Jesus himself tells us that if we keep the commandments of man over the word of God we break God's commandments and will have to stand before God on the day of Judgment for (1) not believing His Word and (2) breaking His Law. There is not one verse in the entire bible that says we no longer need to keep the 7th Day Sabbath a holy day. The question remains who do we obey God or man?

God bless

 

[stonesoffire]

Right, works are not required to solicit a declaration of right standing with God, but they are required in that the person who has a declaration of right standing with God through faith will have works on the Day of Judgment. If he doesn't, John says that person is a LIAR, and that they do not know Him and the truth is not in them.

Can you see the difference between those two ways that works are 'required' in salvation? Are you still only able to hear the argument as works are required because they earn salvation? Nobody here that I know of is saying that works earn salvation. It's only being heard that way, even though it's being thoroughly explained that works are only required in salvation because works are what people saved by faith (all by itself) do. Understand?

What are these works saved people do?

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen...... God does not lie or retract His promises!!!

Amen!

Some things cannot come from a change of mind after things have been put into being as an established truth.

Can someone by an "act of their will" or "changing their mind" un-born themselves from being a human being?

Can they one day say "I don't want to be a human anymore so I as an act of my will by changing my mind - I am un-borning myself" ( we would think there is something wrong with this person's mind and there is.. )

Can some one by "an act of their will" through the "changing of their mind" stop being a son/daughter to their father?

Of course not - they will always be the child of their parents once they are born whether they go crazy in their thinking or not.

We can no more by "an act of our will" un-born ourselves from God which Peter says we are born again of incorruptible seed which lives and abides forever.

We cannot "un-child" ourselves from being God's child because of Jesus Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

( we can however become sick in our minds as the person that wants to "un-born" themselves as a human or as a child of their parent but the real us - the inner man of the heart that is in Christ - that inner man has his will entwined with God's perfect will because of union with Christ )

This is one of the reasons we need to "renew our mind" to align up with the spiritual truths that are in our new spirit in Christ.

Following God's commandments to us will be a natural result of being in Christ as we grow up in Him.

We are looking at what "we do" when we say that we lose salvation for going to heaven instead of what "Jesus has already done". It is a works-based doctrine that actually denies the work and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would be with you and in you forever. Now, is Jesus a liar? That's a question to ask ourselves.

Our Father will perfect that which concerns us for it is He that is at work in us both to will and to do His good pleasure. I'll trust His love in us to "guide us" through life. Phil. 2:13

There is also discipline of the Lord ( child-training in Greek - not "un-childing" them as children ) This proves that we are legitimate children of God.

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.