The Rapture

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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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The Whore (Babylon of Rev) was Jerusalem. The Beast of the Sea (Leviathan) was Rome.

Again, John takes his imagery from the OT. Leviathan was a scary sea creature found in Job and Psalms. Sea monsters were also a prevalent myth throughout the Mediterranean in places such as Turkey, Greece and Rome. In Judaism, the Leviathan was often associated with a demonic beast - a sea serpent or dragon.

In Rev 13 John is standing on the "sand of the sea" and watching a 7 headed beast crawl up from the Med with characteristics similar from the first three beasts of Dan 7, the lion, leopard and bear (Babylon, Persia, and Greece). As a footnote, these three beasts were commonly used in the Colosseum.

Certainly, the beast John described was meant to be of ultimate evil and scariness to his audience. It was the 4th beast of Dan 7 (dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet). This beast clearly was Rome and as John says, "And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation." Certainly Rome had authority over all the known earth of John's day.

“Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?” This very concept was stated by Titus after he defeated Jerusalem when addressing the tyrants who were looking to be spared. Titus lists off the various strong nations who tried to make war with Rome, as recorded by Josephus:

"I hope you, sirs, are now satiated with the miseries of your country, who have not bad any just notions, either of our great power, or of your own great weakness, but have, like madmen, after a violent and inconsiderate manner, made such attempts, as have brought your people, your city, and your holy house to destruction. You have been the men that have never left off rebelling since Pompey first conquered you, and have, since that time, made open war with the Romans. Have you depended on your multitude, while a very small part of the Roman soldiery have been strong enough for you? Have you relied on the fidelity of your confederates? And what nations are there, out of the limits of our dominion, that would choose to assist the Jews before the Romans? Are your bodies stronger than ours? nay, you know that the [strong] Germans themselves are our servants. Have you stronger walls than we have? Pray, what greater obstacle is there than the wall of the ocean, with which the Britons are encompassed, and yet do adore the arms of the Romans. Do you exceed us in courage of soul, and in the sagacity of your commanders? Nay, indeed, you cannot but know that the very Carthaginians have been conquered by us.


 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Revelation - the apocalypse

Apokalypsis - the disclosure of things previously unknown



Revelation 17:5 upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth



So you are telling me this is a reference to 539BC.....

Seriously PW, give up this doctrine of yours, it is poison

What on earth are you talking about!!!??? Jerusalem was the daughter of Babylon. She was given the name "Babylon" in Revelation because of her idolatrous ways and of the destruction and judgment she was about to endure.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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i wanna point this out to u:

Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

its a city now that could be vatican city. the colors match too, this is what the priests wear in those temples i could show u a picture:

Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

this is just a theory dont take it to tha bank. but tha catholic church does fit drunken with da blood of saints too!
It was Jerusalem of the first century. She was drunk with the blood of the saints. She killed Christ and stoned Stephen. She had Paul and Peter arrested.

Paul teaches this exactly in 1 Thes 2:

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans, [SUP]15 [/SUP]who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they do not please God and are contrary to all men.


This equals this:

[SUP]6 [/SUP]I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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Babylon the great is the entire world itself. the harlot that commits fornication. never been married, but seduce nations to lay down and get drunk with her. committing all kinds of sin.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Revelation 5:3 KJV
And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

Jesus wasn't in heaven, he wasn't in the earth, and he wasn't under the earth (the grave). Where was he in this verse?
The whole point of that saying was that there was not a single creature anywhere in the universe qualified to open that book. Thus it became clear that only the Lamb of God Himself (the Creator) was fully qualified to open that book, and did open the book.
 
May 11, 2014
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Can we all agree to stop using the "This doctrine is too new to be true" argument? The pre-wrath rapture is even newer than what Darby taught.
This is a flawed and terrible argument. Does anyone say salvation by grace through faith was invented in the 1500s by the reformers? Too new to be true! I doubt anyone would reason that way regarding the topic of soteriology.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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The whole point of that saying was that there was not a single creature anywhere in the universe qualified to open that book. Thus it became clear that only the Lamb of God Himself (the Creator) was fully qualified to open that book, and did open the book.
Every word is there or not there for a reason. Realizing that Jesus wasn't in any of those places means at that point in time he was ministering to the spirits in hell.

If you ignore this, you ignore the time stamp.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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What on earth are you talking about!!!??? Jerusalem was the daughter of Babylon. She was given the name "Babylon" in Revelation because of her idolatrous ways and of the destruction and judgment she was about to endure.
I will come back to you on this in a few days time.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Babylon the great is the entire world itself. the harlot that commits fornication. never been married, but seduce nations to lay down and get drunk with her. committing all kinds of sin.
How can she be the mother of all harlots if the whole world is the harlot?

It was first century Jerusalem and God dealt with her using Rome as His tool, just as He used Babylon the first time He desolated her.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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The thing so many of you seem to not be realizing is the connection of 70 AD Jerusalem to what happened before when she was conquered by Babylon. The people of Judah had rebelled against the principles upon which their nation had been founded and fallen from grace. Judah had turned its back upon God and rejected any attempt by those sent to her to call her back. As promised, God withdrew His protection from her. He had warned that if His people became faithless that He would employ a pagan power to conquer them and lead them back into captivity. He had led them from Egyptian bondage 1800 years before, and now, because of their infidelity, He would allow them to return to bondage; this time in Babylon.

They had refused to believe it could ever happen to them. They found their own false prophets to tell them that everything was fine. They ridiculed Jeremiah and others who warned of the devastation to come. The Lord spoke through Jeremiah and put it this way; "Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north...and I will send Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon...against this land and against its inhabitants...and this whole land shall be a desolation and a horror, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years." (Jeremiah 25:9-11).

Indeed, history shows us that the words of Jeremiah turned into fact as they were fulfilled down to the last detail. The desolation began with the fall of Jerusalem to Babylon in 606 A.D. and the first deportation of the best of the land into slavery on foreign soil. In this number was Daniel who later would also be a prophet while a servant of Nebuchadnezzar. Further deportations followed and finally Jerusalem was destroyed, just as the prophets had warned. It was seventy years in exile before the repentant remnant of the people of God were permitted to go back home and begin to rebuild their devastated cities. It would be the Persians who allowed the rebuilding to begin by a remnant of what was left of Judah and Israel in 536 B.C. This was, of course, 70 years later just as the prophet had said.

Fast forward to the days of Christ and the Jews yet again rejecting God and His new covenant. After a period of 40 years of prophets (disciples) trying to correct their countrymen and the total failure of the people led by their religious leaders to repent, God sent Rome to once again desolate them and carry the remnant away captive. This time they would be removed as a nation for 1800 years.

John is simply calling Jerusalem "Babylon" to remind everyone of what happened before and that it will happen again for the same reason and by the same method. As King Neb demanded to be worshiped as God, so did the Caesars. The similarities are striking.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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As I've said quite a few times, the main problem with understanding prophecy especially the book of revelation is incorrectly identifying the whore of Babylon as any other than 1st century apostate Judah/Israel which both are found guilty of killing rhe prophets:

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee......

Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


Making such a simple error has lead to "zillions" of bogus and wild speculations over the last 200 years
 
Jul 23, 2017
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the only way u guys can convince any bible believing christian there is no 1000year reign from Jerusalem is if u prove that all da old testament prophecies are now null and void. which is impossible because:

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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As I've said quite a few times, the main problem with understanding prophecy especially the book of revelation is incorrectly identifying the whore of Babylon as any other than 1st century apostate Judah/Israel which both are found guilty of killing rhe prophets:

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee......

Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


Making such a simple error has lead to "zillions" of bogus and wild speculations over the last 200 years
2000...... Absolutely!! Love your avatar by the way.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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the only way u guys can convince any bible believing christian there is no 1000year reign from Jerusalem is if u prove that all da old testament prophecies are now null and void. which is impossible because:

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
The "1,000" year reign is from heavenly Jerusalem where Christ sits.

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, [SUP]23 [/SUP]to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, [SUP]24 [/SUP]to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel...[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear.

Our kingdom cannot be shaken.


 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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2000...... Absolutely!! Love your avatar by the way.
shhh PW....don't tell everyone I have an avatar, they'll accuse me of being an Hindu and worshipping the beast..



Definition of avatar

  • 1: the incarnation of a Hindu deity (such as Vishnu).

Word on the "street" is that Socutus may be headed for an early rapture....



:p


 
H

heartofdavid

Guest
Actually Revelation 14 speaks of judgment and the wrath of God, not the Rapture. Please review it carefully, since it is a part of the Great Tribulation.
Read it s l o w l y.

Jesus gathers ripe fruit from the earth with his sicle.

THEN,the gathering to judgement.

How could you possibly miss it?? Pw' s endorsement is our clue,however
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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shhh PW....don't tell everyone I have an avatar, they'll accuse me of being an Hindu and worshipping the beast..



Definition of avatar

  • 1: the incarnation of a Hindu deity (such as Vishnu).

Word on the "street" is that Socutus may be headed for an early rapture....



:p


Oh no, not the 7-headed sea serpent Hydra? Who would worship that?

 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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Read it s l o w l y.

Jesus gathers ripe fruit from the earth with his sicle.

THEN,the gathering to judgement.

How could you possibly miss it?? Pw' s endorsement is our clue,however
First the church on Mt. Zion is taken to Pella, then the remaining wicked Jews in Jerusalem are killed by famine, disease and sword and then their bodies are burned in the fire of Jerusalem, those that received the mark. Pretty simple, we agree.