Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
A

Ariel82

Guest
some christians believe that repenting is not a works but an automatic love for God an automatic conviction from the spirit that leads you to be saddened and it is out of your love For God that you repent..

Its still a works of the fruit that lies with in tho.. this is all im saying..


If one does not bare theese fruits they have given up there faith for a life of sin...they have not kept there faith...

However peter denied God as did Judas as did Jonah... God did saved Jonah... I like to think peter was still saved...

Did Judas repent befor he hung himself ?

Did God/ Jesus save jonah ?

So im not saying those who deny God will be condemmed to hell unlike some have here..

works are a sure sign you are saved and repenting is also something that keeps you saved...no repentance = a heart that has Gone ino rebellion gone of the rails. no longer believe in God..

become an athiests and changed the words in the bible opened up your own church and allowed gay marriage all to prove that bible is lieing or you know your right or you know theres no God.. And this is happenning right for real in the modern world we live in..

So the moral here is not me pushing works get you salvation..... NO NO NO/. The message from me is works keep you saved which is a type of salvation but not the final salvation....


This is sooooooooooo important when the bible mentions saved it doesnt mean just one perception of the meaning of saved...

There are hundreds of perceptions of saved..

1 saved from drowing..

2 saved for a moment...

saved up your money..

saved somebody from the clutches of evil...

saved until the day of redemption..

Saved for ever more...

now salvation....


you salvaged something from the local scrap yard and made it good...

my only salvation are my chochalates..

salvation came my way one day but i ignored it...

you are to wait patiently for your salvation where by you may recieve saving grace every day..
I don't call repentance works but can kind of see what you are saying about different types of salvation.

Some people are saved from being drunk by becoming sober.

Saved from becoming bitter and anger by forgiveness.

Saved from envy and greed by giving thanks and appreciating the blessings God has given them.

Saved from worrying by trusting in God to provide for our needs.

The list of what God saves us from can be endless.

By following God's laws and teachings, saves us from the consequences of sin in this life....like following traffic laws should keep us safer while driving.

However We can still be hurt by others sinning,just as we can be in a car accident even if we follow all the traffic laws.

We learn the laws because it shows us how the world works.

God's spiritual laws hang on love of God and others but we could spend years unpacking what that means in practical terms.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
Transformation of Spirit is instant and eternal....
Amen!

We are working through these earthen vessels. We only know in part and manifest Christ in part.

When we die - there is no "instant work" being done to clean us up because we are perfect in our spirit now - in the new creation in Christ.

Death doesn't save us - we are just separated from this body of death and then the real us goes to be with the Lord. One day - our bodies will be redeemed too. God saved the whole of us!

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

We will never be any more righteous then the day we received the abundance of grace and His gift of righteousness when we heard the gospel message of Christ Himself and what He has already done in His work alone.

When we "awake to righteousness" - see who we are in Christ - we will walk out who we are in Christ in our outward behavior as our minds become renewed to the things of Christ that is ours because we are in Him We awake to this righteousness that is the real us in Christ and we will sin not.

I love the Greek word for "awake" here - it means to "sober up to be your true self". or "to come to one's senses "

And yes this also includes all types of sinning ( which is missing the mark - the mark being - God's quality of life ) - from living a homosexual lifestyle to exhibiting malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ.

 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,906
4,349
113
are you sure your not a pastor ? or a church leader ? .... im still confused with you ?..


all this

My list was

Love God
Love others
Obey
The only work
Repent
Be born again
Beware or false prophets
Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves
Be perfect
Dont throw pearls to pigs
Let your light shine
Be reconciled
Do this in remebrance of me
Fear him who can kill the soul
Take up your cross daily
Follow me
Beware of leaven
Keep your word
Do not judge
Forgiveness (over 3 sessions)
Do to others
Dont worry
Store up treasures
Seek first
Rejoice when persecuted for righteousness sake
Do good to those who hate you
Bring in the poor/crippled/lame and blind
Take my yolk
Give to Caesar
Go the extra mile
Ask seek and knock
Dont despise little ones
Secret prayer
Be disciples, go to the nations, baptise and teach them my commands
Be salt
Love your enemies


This is just as much as a law giving as the old testement ... are you sure works dont lead to salvation ?
To be honest my view is that works do not lead to salvation.
If they did then Jesus would not have to die on the cross.
He could have just suddenly appeared and said "This is what you need to do to be saved, keep all these commands and your in the club"

To me Jesus had to die on the cross to reconcile us back to God and that had to be done for forgiveness of our sins.
When the temple curtain was torn in two that gives us access to the throne of God.
Of course we have to accept that but I also say that when we do then we should walk the walk.

I truly do not believe works saves us and to be honest given all my study on this I am settled in my position.
I am also not a sinless perfectionist, this side of the cross I do not think we can be sinless. I don't anticipate my sin but I know my weakness and I ask God to manifest in my weakness.
When I get it wrong I fess it up.
I think to anticipate sin can set us up to fall. And we will fall if we identify ourselves as sinners who will sin.

If we can reverse it and identify ourselves as children of God who loves us so much then the Holy Spirit starts to work in us.

But I do believe that works will follow on from faith in Jesus as a result of what he did on the cross for me.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Grace is a position.....it is fluent, it is pro-active and out bounds our sin-----it is entirely from God......

In the grace YOU ARE, having been saved out of faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of GOD, not of works lest any man should boast.

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

Where sin abounds, GRACE did much more abound.
How is grace a position?

Being a child of God is a position.

Being an ambassador for the King of kings is a position.

Grace as a noun is unmerited favor.
Grace as a verb is God's love and forgiveness in action to transform our lives via the Holy spirit.

I don't get how grace is a position?
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
I believe that the Holy Spirit knew what He was doing when He had Paul write 1 Corinthians.

Some of them were going to temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, they were in divisions and strife, they were not treating the poor amongst them right...etc.

Paul was saying that those in Corinth were acting like mere men and men of flesh - in other words not being spiritually minded.

They were babes in Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]
And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]
I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,

[SUP]3 [/SUP]
for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men?


I noticed that in verse 1 Paul says that they are "babes in Christ".

- not that you are going to hell because you are sinning.
Or that because they were sinning - that they are not born of God.


Nor told them that their loving Father was now going to throw them into hell.

What religious nonsense and it is from the enemy who's sole purpose is to get us to doubt the love and faithfulness of God in order that we would fall from grace and rely on our own works of righteousness.

Here's a scripture right out of 2Corinthians that proves christians fall from grace:

2 Corinthians 13
1This is the third time I am coming to you. EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES. 2I have previously said when present the second time, and though now absent I say in advance to those who have sinned in the past and to all the rest as well, that if I come again I will not spare anyone,

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(2) I told you before, and foretell you . . .—Better, I have warned you before(referring, probably, to the threat of 1Corinthians 4:13-19, and implied in 2Corinthians 1:23). The chief objects of this rigour were to be those whom he had described previously as “having sinned beforehand” (see Note on 2Corinthians 12:21); but he adds that his work as judge will extend to all the rest of the offenders. What he has in view is obviously passing a sentence of the nature of an excommunication on the offenders, “delivering them to Satan” (1Corinthians 5:5; 1Timothy 1:20), with the assured confidence that that sentence would be followed by some sharp bodily suffering. In that case men would have, as he says in the next verse, a crucial test whether Christ was speaking in him, and learn that he whom they despised as infirm had a reserve-force of spiritual power, showing itself in supernatural effects even in the regions of man’s natural life.

Matthew Poole's Commentary
I told you in my former Epistle, and now (though I be yet absent) I tell you beforehand, as though

I were present amongst you.

I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all other; I write this for the sake of those who have already sinned scandalously; and not for theirs only, but for the sake of others, who may have temptations so to offend.

That, if I come again, I will not spare; that, if I do come, and find any such who walk in courses of sin, and are hardened in them, so as all that I have said will not bring them to remorse and reformation,

I will not spare them, either as to sharp reprehensions, or as to ecclesiastical censures; according to the trust which Christ hath reposed in me. Some extend this further, to a power of inflicting bodily pains; but it is not clear that the apostles were intrusted with any such power ordinarily, though sometimes they did exert such a power; as appeareth, both from the instances of Ananias and Sapphira, Acts 5:1-11, and that of Elymas, Acts 13:8-11
.

Paul had continuously dealt with a baby church that should have been mature by now. Many of the same dismissed his apostolic authority.

The "I will not spare" means he would throw the unrepentant offenders out of the church because they gave him no choice.

Members were allowed back if they confessed their sins & showed true repentance.

This is a teaching throughout the NT. Unrepentant christians were cast out of the church, because they rebelled against God. The example of Ananias & Sapphira confirms it.




 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
Scriptures are both a command and also a promise toward our identity through Christ that empowers us to fulfill His command.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,049
8,728
113
OK. Looks like it's time to post this again: Either we are born again and have ETERNAL life, or we aren't and we don't. There is no in between:

1. The believer has everlasting or eternal life.

John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 10:28: “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

2. The believer is born of God.

John 1:12-13: “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

3. Christ will raise every believer up at the last day.

John 6:44-47: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, and they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”

4. The believer has already passed from death unto life.

John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

5. The believer is not the object of God’s wrath.

John 3:36: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

6. Believer are God’s sheep.

John 10:2-4: “But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.”

7. The believer will not listen to nor follow a stranger, but will flee from him.

John 10:5: “And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.” (The stranger here is Satan and his false teachers.)

8. The believer is known of God.

John 10:14: “I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.”

9. The believer listens to the voice of the shepherd.

John 10:27: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.”

10. The believer is in Christ’s hand and cannot be plucked out.

John 10:28: “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

11. The believer is in the Father’s hand and cannot be plucked out.

John 10:29: “My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.”

12. The shepherd is charged with the responsibility of keeping the sheep.

John 10:11-14: “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.”

13. The believer is not condemned.

John 3:18: “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

14. The believer shall never thirst.

John 4:14: “But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.”

15. The believer will keep Christ’s commandments.

John 14:23: “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.”

16. The believer is secure because of Christ’s prayer.

John 17:9-12: “I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee, Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”

17. The believer shall never die.

John 11:26: “And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”

18. The believer to be kept from the evil.

John 17:15: “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.”

Jesus prays that the believer may be kept from the Devil. Was this prayer answered?

19. The believer to be with Christ in glory.

John 17:24: “Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.”

20. The believer shall never hunger.

John 6:35: “And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”

21. The believer will in no wise be cast out (Not under any circumstance).

John 6:37: “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”

22. Christ will not lose a single believer.

John 6:39: “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

23. Christ will raise up the believer at the last day.

John 6:38-40: “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

24. Whosoever eats the bread of life shall never die.

John 6:51: “I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

25. Because the Holy Spirit abides in the believer forever.

John 14:16-17: “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.”

26. Because it is the Father’s will that Christ should lose nothing.

John 6:39: “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

27. Because one cannot be unborn.

John 3:5: “Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

28. The believer will follow Christ.

John 10:27: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.” Following Christ, can one be lost? Have we any right to add to God’s Word by inserting if” to the passage?

29. The believers continue with God.

1 John 2:19: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”

30. Because it is the believer’s faith that overcomes the world.

1 John 5:4: “For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”

31. Because of the record that God hath given.

1 John 5:10-11: “He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.”

32. The believer is to be like Christ.

1 John 3:2: “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”

33. The believer is kept by the power of God.

1 Peter 1:5: “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

34. The man who believes shall be saved.

Acts 16:31: “And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”

35. The believer has been saved.

Ephesians 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

36. The believer is hid by God in Christ.

Colossians 3:3: “For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.” Can the devil find that which God hides?

37. The believer shall not come into condemnation.

John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

38. There is now therefore no condemnation for the believer.

Romans 8:1: “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

39. The believer is sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13: “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.”

40. The believer is sealed for a definite time, the day of redemption, or the resurrection of the body.

Ephesians 4:30: “And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

41. The believer liveth and abideth forever.

1 Peter 1:23: “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.”

42. The believer is dead to sin.

Romans 6:2: “God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?”

43. The believer will appear with Christ in glory.

Colossians 3:4: “When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.”

44. The life of the believer is Christ’s life.

Colossians 3:4: “When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.”

45. Since Christ cannot die again, the believer is eternally secure.

Romans 6:9-10: “Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.”

46. The believer is saved through faith not by works.

Ephesians 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

47. This faith a gift from God.

Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

Ephesians 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

48. The believer is not saved by what he does, but by what Christ has done for him.

Titus 3:5: “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.”

Romans 4:5: “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

49. Salvation is a gift, not a wage.

Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

50. The believer’s hope is a living hope.

1 Peter 1:3: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.”
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,049
8,728
113
51. The believer’s hope will not fade away. Will not grow dim.

1 Peter 1:4-5: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

52. The believer’s hope is reserved (set aside) in heaven for him.

1 Peter 1:4: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.”

53. The believer’s inheritance is incorruptible.

1 Peter 1:4: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.”

54. The believer’s inheritance cannot be defiled.

1 Peter 1:4: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away reserved in heaven for you.”

55. The believer is kept through faith.

1 Peter 1:4-5: (See reasons number 36 and 37): “to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

56. The believer to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:5: “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

The believer is more than conqueror through Christ.

Romans 8:37: “Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.”

57. The believer justified by faith, to be saved from wrath.

Romans 5:9: “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”

58. Nothing can separate the believer from Christ.

Romans 8:38-39: “For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

59. Christ will complete salvation until the end.

Philippians 1:6: “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.”

60. The believer to be preserved spirit, soul, and body.

1 Thessalonians 5:23: “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

61. God cannot lie.

Titus 1:2: “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.”

62. Jesus is able to save unto the uttermost.

Hebrews 7:25: “Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”

63. The believer is born of incorruptible seed.

1 Peter 1:23: “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.” Can the devil corrupt that which God says is incorruptible?

64. The believer is perfected forever.

Hebrews 10:14: “For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.”

65. The believer believes unto the saving of his soul.

Hebrews 10:38-39: “Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”

66. The believer made righteous through Christ’s obedience.

Romans 5:18-19: “Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”

67. Because all things work together for good to the believer.

Romans 8:28: “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”

68. Because the believer is so helpless that he cannot place his sins upon Christ. God must do it for him. Therefore salvation is by grace.

Isaiah 53:6: “All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”

69. Because Christ did not come to help us, but to save us.

Luke 19:10: “For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

70. Because God, not being a man, cannot lie.

Numbers 23:19: “God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?”

71. Because His mercy endureth forever.

Psalm 136: Twenty-six times in this Psalm it is written His mercy endureth forever.”

72. Because the believer has not yet borne the image of the heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:49: “And as we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.”

73. Because the believer is preserved unto the heavenly kingdom.

2 Timothy 4:18: “And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory forever and ever.”

74. Because the believer is the object of God’s mercy, not His wrath.

Ephesians 2:4: “But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us.”

John 3:36: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10: “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.”

75. Because a sealed and witnessed transaction is final.

Ephesians 1:13: “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.” Sealed by the Spirit.

Hebrews 10:15: “Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us.”

76. Salvation is obtained, not attained.

Hebrews 9:12: “Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

77. Because the believer is a new creation. Created in Christ Jesus. Therefore eternal in righteousness.

Ephesians 4:24: “And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”

78. Because the Father reckons the sinner:

Romans 6:3-5: “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.”

Ephesians 2:4-6: “But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”

79. Because all believers will be changed at Christ’s coming.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52: “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

80. Because of the “MUST” of 1 Corinthians 15:53.

1 Corinthians 15:23: “For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”

81. Because the power of God is not limited.

Matthew 28:18-19: “And Jesus came and spake to them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.”

1 Peter 1:5: “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

82. Because the saints are preserved forever.

Psalms 37:28: “For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved forever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.”

83. Because nothing can separate us from the love of Christ.

Romans 8:35: “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?”

The answer NO” is demanded by the passage to the question.

84. Because God will not forget the believer.

Isaiah 49:15: “Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet I will not forget thee.”

85. Because the new covenant in His blood, is an everlasting covenant.

Jeremiah 32:40: “And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.”

86. Because the believer has ceased from his own works.

Hebrews 4:10: “For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.” It is God that works in the believer.

87. Because we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:10: “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

88. Because the believer has already been redeemed (Past tense).

2 Peter 1:18-19: “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.”

89. Because the believer’s salvation is begun and finished by Christ.

Hebrews 12:2: “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”

90. Because salvation is by grace, and not by any mixture of grace and works.

Romans 11:6: “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”

91. Because Christ died. rose again, and intercedes for born again believers.

Romans 8:37: “Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”

Hebrews 7:25: “Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”

92. Because God predestined believers in His Truth according to His foreknowledge before the foundation of the world to be conformed to the image of his Son, and then, in time, He calls and justifies us, and finally He will glorify us.

Romans 8:29-30: “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.”

Ephesians 1:5, 7, 11, 13: "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will ... In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace ... In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: ... In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation ..."

2 Corinthians 2:13: "... God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth."

93. Because salvation IS salvation.

Hebrews 5:9: "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 7:25: "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them."

94. The believer cannot perish.

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

95. Because God’s promise that through the offering of Christ He will put away the believer’s sins, and will remember them no more.

Hebrews 10:17: “And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.”

96. Because God is for us!

Romans 8:31: "What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?"

97. God chastens His children rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 Corinthians 11:31-32: "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world."

98. God allows His children to suffer loss of rewards in Heaven rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15: "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

99. God allows His children to suffer shame at His coming rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 John 2:28: "And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming."

100. Because God is greater than our heart.

1 John 3:20: "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things."

101. God is able to save and keep us.

2 Timothy 1:12: "... I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."

Jude 1:24: "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
You're right. But NAR is worse, isn't it?
Would you like to be mauled by a fluffy teddy bear or ripped apart by an alligator?


Bout the same choice.....I don't know Johnson but NAR and WOF false doctrines are poison dressed up as candy.
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
The thing is this what is sin or rather when is sin reckoned upon a man.

sin is based on the persons awareness of right and wrong.
the bible now teaches that Gods laws will be written on our hearts and minds and no longer will he remember our sins coz where dirty....
you arent accountable for what i know, and oim not accountable for what you Know. its between you. Jesus, and God the Father.
The bible says diffrent on this and teaches that if we do not warn you that you are sinning we will be held accountable..


ongoing process sorry for the length here i have issues saying things in few words God bless
no probs brother just remember i love you :cool:
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
There is a massive difference between church discipline to protect the people and the Lord sending you to hell as can be seen by the letter Paul said to the 1 Corinthians.

Paul told them who they were in Christ...then corrected their behavior...he didn't say you were all unsaved now or that because they were sinning that they were not born of God like some people try to teach.

Or that their loving Father will now throw them in the lake of fire. What total religious nonsense and that is straight from the enemy to get us to doubt the love, grace of God for us and for us to rely on our own self-efforts of works-based righteousness.


( without understanding the new creation in Christ - this "sinning" part will throw people off because they don't understand what is being done by giving in to the flesh and what the new man is Christ really is. )

Paul told them who they were in Christ
...
Here are 7 things that Paul confirmed as truth in the believers in Corinth before he went on to correct their behavior.


1)
The Corinthians have been sanctified in Christ Jesus,

2) The Corinthians were now
saints by calling

3)
The Corinthians in everything were enriched in Him,

4) The Corinthians had
the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in them,

5) The Corinthians had
that God will also confirm them to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ

6) The Corinthians had that it was by Gods doing that we are in Christ
( Not our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness and holiness
)

7) That because the Corinthians were in Christ - Christ Himself became to them wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption



1 Corinthians 1:2-9 (NASB)

[SUP]2 [/SUP] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

[SUP]3 [/SUP] Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] thatin everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,

[SUP]6 [/SUP] even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

[SUP]8 [/SUP] who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,


Preach and teach the grace of Christ as it is the only think that teaches us how to live godly in this world. Titus 2:11-12. The word of His grace is the only thing that is able to build us up and that gives us the inheritance that is ours in Christ. Acts 20:32
This still remains as truth for those that can see the difference. There is a time for discipline in the church to keep the others from harm.

You will notice that Paul also said we are not to associate with those that are slanderers of others in the body of Christ in 1 Cor. 5:11

Revilers are in the same boat as those that live a homosexual lifestyle. It looks like there are some would we will have to not associate with because of their behavior and unfortunately but it is obvious that some pastors fit this bill too.

Then we wonder why some people in the world reject their "god".

Thank God for the gospel of the grace of God in Christ and that he will be faithful to reveal His true self to all of us!

3034. [FONT="Galatia Sil" !important]λοίδορος[/FONT] [FONT="Gentium" !important]loidoros[/FONT] noun


An abusive person, reviler, slanderer.


Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Lambda-Omicron.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
Maybe it's so hard for some to believe that they have complete forgiveness of sins in the eyes of God is because they may not want someone else to have complete forgiveness...the psychology fits.
Is that complete forgiveness of sins with or without repentance?

So if one is saved by faith without works then would one need to repent of their sin to receive salvation?

And if repentance is necessary for salvation then faith without works is dead.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
97. God chastens His children rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 Corinthians 11:31-32: "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world."


****

I was looking to see if this one was included.,glad it was.
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
What am I not understanding?

page 1 of 2
You just said this in another post.

This does not abolish the Law...Mathew 5:17. It does give us a new way to follow it and to make our work count for something since it is for God that we work and not for man


So you are saying that the finished work of the Cross of Jesus Christ has given us grace to follow the law? I think here is the basis for our disagreement.[/QUOTE]

How is it the basis for our disagreement?

Grace Always existed. In the OT and in the NT.
God IS LOVE.
God IS GRACE.

Of course God give's us grace to follow His commandments.

But more than that, I'd say that in the New Covenant He gives us POWER to follow the commandments Jesus left us with.

The problem with the Old Covenant is that it had no power. As it states in Hebrews 8, if the OC had been perfect there would have been no need for the new one.

Men could not follow the OC. The Law was written in stone and not on their hearts.

The Law has not been abolished. It is still in force. God does not change His mind. Some here make it sound as though we only have to follow the Law if we WANT to. That's not correct. We MUST follow the Law. We cannot say "I'll steal and still be saved".

So what IS different is that God has created a new way to adhere to the NC.
He will be merciful to our iniquities and He will remember our sins no more.
Hebrews 8:12

Why?

Because God Father has offered His son to us. If we accept His Son, we are covered by His blood. Precious blood.
Knowing how much of a debt we owe to Jesus makes us WANT to follow Him, to be His disciples, and to adhere to His commandments.

In the OC, we had only ourselves to count on.
In the NC, we can count on the Holy Spirit to help us by allowing us to feel Love for Jesus for the great sacrifice He made.
And I don't man only the Cross. How about that He became a human for us? Could we understand what that must be like?
GOD becoming a MAN, just to help us know how to belong to Him.

If you want to call it grace, OK. But I see it as being much more than God's grace.
It's also OUR love.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,906
4,349
113
so question if one is saved by grace then is grace only given once ?
Good question Jimbo.

I would say that we are saved by faith as a result of God's grace.
To me the grace of God was what nailed Jesus to the cross.

With regards to whether it's a one time event I'm not sure.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
This might be clearer:

Scriptures are both a command and a promise. His commands lead us to the full expression of our identity in Christ. But, He doesn't reap where He doesn't sow. He empowers what He requires.
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
To be honest my view is that works do not lead to salvation.
in any accasion ?
If they did then Jesus would not have to die on the cross.
this happened so we have a chance of being saved..
He could have just suddenly appeared and said "This is what you need to do to be saved, keep all these commands and your in the club".
this is being facetoius billy and you know it..

To me Jesus had to die on the cross to reconcile us back to God and that had to be done for forgiveness of our sins.
When the temple curtain was torn in two that gives us access to the throne of God.
Of course we have to accept that but I also say that when we do then we should walk the walk.

I truly do not believe works saves us and to be honest given all my study on this I am settled in my position.
I am also not a sinless perfectionist, this side of the cross I do not think we can be sinless. I don't anticipate my sin but I know my weakness and I ask God to manifest in my weakness.
When I get it wrong I fess it up.
I think to anticipate sin can set us up to fall. And we will fall if we identify ourselves as sinners who will sin.

If we can reverse it and identify ourselves as children of God who loves us so much then the Holy Spirit starts to work in us.

But I do believe that works will follow on from faith in Jesus as a result of what he did on the cross for me.
Jesus died on the cross coz he knew he could defeat satan and did... He knew that the cross would come his way one day.. thats why he had the last supper..

He also left instruction to remember him... and also said he would be coming soon to those who accept his blood has been poored out for there forgivness of sins meaning his blood would live on forvever.. also meaning that many will recieve but few will be chosen coz many will fall out of favor with God....

Favor is gained and earned from God and that the truth.. God bless you to i really do mean that...
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Is that complete forgiveness of sins with or without repentance?

So if one is saved by faith without works then would one need to repent of their sin to receive salvation?

And if repentance is necessary for salvation then faith without works is dead.
Repentance is needed for sanctification, which happens after being born again and learning from the Holy spirit what is sins and what needs to be repented of.

Faith in Jesus finished work upon the cross and His resurrection is the only thing needed to be saved (aka receive the Holy spirit seal and to be born again).

Afterwards God reveals what is dead and needs to be pruned from our life via the Holy spirit. He waters the good and cuts away the dead.